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lots of false seinen labels around?

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bully_jesus
Post #17182
Member

11:54 am, May 31 2007
Posts: 686


Hey Guys,
I always take a look at the series labeled Seinen, and from tha art and summary a lot of them seem very un seinen if you ask me. I sort of have the feeling that the genre seinen is being stretched to encompase lots of things which aren't 100% shonen.
Do any of you guys get the same impression? For example my balls and chobits or both manga that i would clearly not consider seinen. Yes, chobits has spinkel of philosophie and my balls shows breasts, but they are both comedys without much depth.

So, tell me what you guys think.

P.S. I would add D-ASh to seinen if no one opposes

ranmaru
Post #17183
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The Gorilla King
Member

11:58 am, May 31 2007
Posts: 1115


Yes i totally agree, how come chobits is seinen eek ?! I've read D-ASh and it sounds like seinen to me so you don't have to worry about me bitting you.

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lakesurface
Post #17185
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12:04 pm, May 31 2007
Posts: 301


i agree ,its true that seinen is a weird labelled one. also sometimes when its mature really but without blood/gore/sex than its seinen.. kwim?

ladybrasa
Post #17193
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1:37 pm, May 31 2007
Posts: 279


So my understanding is that shounen and sienen are genres "geared toward males" (though anyone can read them, of course).
Of the titles mentioned so far, I have only seen Chobits anime, and I agree its Sienen. This is because the main character is a male and it focuses on sexual/fanservice-y kinds of things, which appeals to heterosexual male audiences. I mean, what shojo would have an on button in that location??
All the harem manga and anime are sienen (imo), since generally it involves the main male average joe, and several sexy females. Of course seinen can be adventure, psychological, gore, and that sort of thing, too. But it can be 'romance', too (well, imo its more lusty than real romance).
Shojo/josei main character is a female and generally relates more to the emotions of romance and drama, and personal development of the character.


NeoFireHawk
Post #17200 - Reply to (#17182) by bully_jesus
Member

3:03 pm, May 31 2007
Posts: 185


Quote from bully_jesus
Do any of you guys get the same impression? For example my balls and chobits or both manga that i would clearly not consider seinen. Yes, chobits has spinkel of philosophie and my balls shows breasts, but they are both comedys without much depth.

I'm sorry to dissapoint you bully_jesus, but chobits and my balls are seinen. Chobits was serialized in Young Magazine, the same seinen magazine that published Ghost in the Shell. And my balls is serialized in Young Animal Arashi, a seinen magazine that specializes in ecchi series.

You must understand that the only requirement for a title to be seinen is to be aimed to an 1830 year old male audience (hence, the "seinen" name). The idea that seinen mangas have to be mature and depth to be considered as such is only a broad stereotype. And if you think that Chobits lacks depth, you have seen nothing.
People must understand that Yotsuba to! (Which is serialized in Dengeki Daioh, the same magazine that published Boogiepop) is as seinen as Berserk.

Why titles like Yotsube to! and Azumanga Daioh are published in seinen magazines, you may ask? Simply put, cute and funny stories help relax all those salaryman after -god's know how- hours of hard work, so it's not really surprising that titles like that are aimed at them.

Quote from bully_jesus
I always take a look at the series labeled Seinen, and from tha art and summary a lot of them seem very un seinen if you ask me.

Art also has nothing to do. Only look at Eternal Sabbath: The art is clearly "shoujish" (Which is understable, since the mangaka is mainly a shoujo artist) but was serialized in the seinen Morning magazine (And also, the story is all but shoujo, if you ask me).

But I do agree with you about the false seinen labels. I have seen a lot of series being falsely named seinen even though the series is running in a josei or shounen magazine. And some have reached the unimaginable, like labeling a series both seinen and josei cry

P.S. Ah, and you're right about D-ASh, since it's serialized in Big Comic Spirits, a seinen magazine.

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bully_jesus
Post #17214 - Reply to (#17193) by ladybrasa
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5:48 pm, May 31 2007
Posts: 686


Quote from ladybrasa
So my understanding is that shounen and sienen are genres "geared toward males" (though anyone can read them, of course).
Of the titles mentioned so far, I have only seen Chobits anime, and I agree its Sienen. This is because the main character is a male and it focuses on sexual/fanservice-y kinds of things, which appeals to heterosexual male audiences. I mean, what shojo would have an on button in that location??
All the harem manga and anime are sienen (imo), since generally it involves the main male average joe, and several sexy females. Of course seinen can be adventure, psychological, gore, and that sort of thing, too. But it can be 'romance', too (well, imo its more lusty than real romance).
Shojo/josei main character is a female and generally relates more to the emotions of romance and drama, and personal development of the character.


Just to clear things up, Seinen is geared towards young males ( adults ) and shonen towards boys. So when i think that the series mentioned aren't seinen, it doesn't mean i do not think they are geared towards male audiences.


Quote
You must understand that the only requirement for a title to be seinen is to be aimed to an 1830 year old male audience (hence, the "seinen" name). The idea that seinen mangas have to be mature and depth to be considered as such is only a broad stereotype. And if you think that Chobits lacks depth, you have seen nothing.
People must understand that Yotsuba to! (Which is serialized in Dengeki Daioh, the same magazine that published Boogiepop) is as seinen as Berserk.


I must admit you have angered my geek pride in explaining to me what seinen ist. But i have to admit that series published in seinen newpapers are , per definition , seinen. There have been more than one thread on how people understand seinen. By the way, [m]Yotsuba to![/m] is also not listed as seinen on MU incase you want to change it.
I can't really argue about how deep the manga chobits is, but I'll pick a fight with anybody about the anime. After the first 10 minutes the whole rest of the story was obvious.


Quote
i agree ,its true that seinen is a weird labelled one. also sometimes when its mature really but without blood/gore/sex than its seinen.. kwim?


as i mentioned to neofirehawk there have been discussions over the definition of seinen. It's pretty much the same subject as what makes a movie or book a book for adults.

Ultimatly NeoFireHawk is right, if its published in a seinen journal, its seinen. Thats that. That doesn't mean everybody agrees on it being seinen, but its definitly to be labled such.

darn, those seinen journals have no standards these days sad smile

megane007
Post #17559
Member

11:11 pm, Jun 2 2007
Posts: 41


It depends on what purpose that MU set up the label.
Is it used to let people know what kind of audience the manga is targeted to Or just stick to the so called definition?
Not only salarymen have pressures after all. Yotsubato is all-age, you can safely label it from shoujo to seinen~

Hostile
Post #17562
user avatar
Member

11:27 pm, Jun 2 2007
Posts: 553


If I recall correctly, the labels are changeable by users. Also, the magazine the series comes from usually dictates what genre it is. It's like an unwritten rule in labeling each title.

Last edited by Hostile at 11:32 pm, Jun 2

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NeoFireHawk
Post #18079
Member

2:17 am, Jun 6 2007
Posts: 185


Quote from "bully_jesus"
I must admit you have angered my geek pride in explaining to me what seinen ist.

Sorry, that was not my intention. I only explained it because I felt that this issue was being discussed based mostly on erroneous presumptions and beliefs (that for what I have seen are kind of widespread).

Quote from "bully_jesus"
By the way, [m]Yotsuba to![/m] is also not listed as seinen on MU incase you want to change it.

Thanks, I'll do it right away.

Quote from "bully_jesus"
I can't really argue about how deep the manga chobits is, but I'll pick a fight with anybody about the anime. After the first 10 minutes the whole rest of the story was obvious.

You misunderstood me. What I was trying to say is that if you think that Chobits lacks depth you have not seen a truly depthless series (Like the aforemented manga, Yotsuba to!). It was never my intention to even suggest that chobits is a deep series. In fact, I think that Clamp should keep doing shoujo and never attempt to make another seinen manga again.

Quote from "megane007"
Not only salarymen have pressures after all. Yotsubato is all-age, you can safely label it from shoujo to seinen~

It seems that you don't understand yet. Look: It's true that Yotsuba to! may be put into a shoujo magazine without any problem -and it could even be successful- but if a manga is seinen or not it's not decided by us, but by the japanese. It doesn't matter what we think: A manga is classified by the age and gender of its target audience, not by its contain.
It could be the most childish, plotless and pointless manga but if the japanese says that it's targeted at an 1830 year old male audience, it's seinen without doubt.

Quote from "Hostile"
If I recall correctly, the labels are changeable by users. Also, the magazine the series comes from usually dictates what genre it is. It's like an unwritten rule in labeling each title.

It's true that Manga are primarily classified by which magazine the title is serialized, but sometimes it's not always so easy. For example: Beans Ace is a magazine that is aimed at both men and women. In this case, how do you know if a manga is seinen or josei? Easy: When the manga is collected in tankoubons, if it's seinen is published by Kadokawa Comics A and if it's josei is compilated by Asuka Comics DX.

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bully_jesus
Post #18255
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11:13 pm, Jun 6 2007
Posts: 686


Quote from NeoFireHawk
You misunderstood me. What I was trying to say is that if you think that Chobits lacks depth you have not seen a truly depthless series (Like the aforemented manga, Yotsuba to!). It was never my intention to even suggest that chobits is a deep series. In fact, I think that Clamp should keep doing shoujo and never attempt to make another seinen manga again.


Ahh, that beautifull comment makes averything good again in the world.



And I'll add my voice to his, we don't decide seinen or not seinen due to its content, but by which age group the manga is marketed for.

palabasa
Post #21179 - Reply to (#18255) by bully_jesus
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7:25 pm, Jun 22 2007
Posts: 52


Quote from bully_jesus
Quote from NeoFireHawk
You misunderstood me. What I was trying to say is that if you think that Chobits lacks depth you have not seen a truly depthless series (Like the aforemented manga, Yotsuba to!). It was never my intention to even suggest that chobits is a deep series. In fact, I think that Clamp should keep doing shoujo and never attempt to make another seinen manga again.


Ahh, that beautifull comment makes averything good again in the world.



And I'll add my voice to his, we don't decide seinen or not seinen due to its content, but by which age group the manga is marketed for.


haha! nice one, i also agree with that..Clamp is a group of women who's trying to cater for men but not really aware of what men/boys want..

but we digress, seinin is really defined as a story that caters for young men aging 18-30yrs...and most common is that the protagonist is also in that age range.
its really a common misconception about it being mature or mannish, like in shounen being action related...but about yotsubato IMHO, i wonder how it became a seinin?it doesnt really cater on that age range and the main character is a very cute little girl..

and yes the Japanese should be the authority about that no matter how geeky we are..peace! biggrin

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Xeronia
Post #21188
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8:34 pm, Jun 22 2007
Posts: 1650


I've only read one manga that I know for sure is seinen, and that's Sword of the Dark Ones.

But I say that the Japanese should decide what labels go on what. But there is a gray zone between seinen and josei, like there is between shounen and shoujo. What do you do for mangas that are targeted at all people from ages 18-30?

ketti
Post #21200 - Reply to (#21188) by Xeronia
Member

9:40 pm, Jun 22 2007
Posts: 21


Quote from Xeronia
But I say that the Japanese should decide what labels go on what. But there is a gray zone between seinen and josei, like there is between shounen and shoujo. What do you do for mangas that are targeted at all people from ages 18-30?

Then it's neither seinen nor josei? Quite easy, isn't it? smile
(and if it is "unsuitable" for a younger audience it could be labeled mature or something)

NeoFireHawk
Post #21209 - Reply to (#21188) by Xeronia
Member

10:32 pm, Jun 22 2007
Posts: 185


Quote from Xeronia
I've only read one manga that I know for sure is seinen, and that's Sword of the Dark Ones.

Actually, it's shounen (It was serialized in Shonen Ace under the title Ragnarok).

Quote from Xeronia
What do you do for mangas that are targeted at all people from ages 18-30?
I'd say that there isn't such thing as targeted at "all" since generally a manga is specifically aimed at a determined group. For example, a political manga is aimed at people who are interested in politics or a cooking manga is aimed at people who are interested in cooking. The term "shounen" is very broad and it simply mean that no matter its contain, it was made to appeal to male teenagers (The same with shoujo and the like). In most of cases if a manga wasn't published in a magazine aimed at a determinate demographic group is simply labeled by its contains, like ketti said.

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palabasa
Post #21291
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5:58 am, Jun 23 2007
Posts: 52


for me though, irregardless of the publication it was issued from, what matters is the targeted audience, like shounen for teenage boys, and seinen for guys 18-30yrs old..

also seinin or shounen may be broad, but as i've notice, in order for the targeted audience to be able to relate more to the story, they normally put the protagonist on the same age bracket. like shounen has mid schoolers or HS guys as the lead and a university student or young working men for seinin..or again guys belonging on that age level. they could be romance, action, sports, fantasy, etc so like chobits or even Oh!My Goddess counts as seinin(the male lead a working/nonworking university student). but there are some excemptions i guess, like GUNNM(havent read it but is the lead an android girl?)? but then again its target are young men so it counts...


Last edited by palabasa at 7:25 am, Jun 23

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