So, I wanted to talk about something I'm worried about. I've noticed that in the last five year the number of great manga series dropped dramatically. If you check the database, series that have at least an 8 on 10 for Bayesian estimate have become really rare lately. I've noticed with a 1500 series that have at least an 8 on 10, their are barely around 10 to 30 manga in the last 5 years that are in the list. And the ones that received the 8 are lately all based on novels. Or their from another region (manhua or manwha).

I thought first that their is something wrong with the voting system on Mangaupdates, or that the audience changed on Mangaupdates. But I've got the feeling that the problem is with the manga industry. For example they milk out the goods stuff and it turns to worser. Bleach was a good example, this was a great series in the beginnen, but then...

So I hope someone here on Mangaupdates knows more about the cause of this issue?

Even after dead, we raise from the ashes for the sake of manga.

Not sure about the site. But looking at the manga industry 50's and on and anime industry 60's and on to today. Quality has ebbed and flowed on both mediums. I think it's in a transition phase now. The main series are all about the shounen coming of age story of a 14 year old. Things like the My Hero Academia anime and manga explore things in a smart way making it different.

But this is when new contenders start appearing such as light novels, light novel based spin offs, manhua, manwha, amerimanga, inventive sequels to famous titles form the 70's through 90's. It's like a bow and arrow. At times the arrow is being pulled back but more often then not. When that arrow launches. Amazing things can happen.

I think it's because there's more people reading newer series than older ones. And the more people read something, the more the ratings on it fluctuate. I don't think it has anything to do with the quality of manga itself, especially since there's even more manga coming out nowadays than before, and as such, even more hidden gems to be discovered.

People also have a tendency to look at older works they read when they were younger in a rose-tinted lens. So that might also contribute.

I also don't think the Bayesian estimate is a really good indicator of whether a manga is good or not. I mean, I love Tsubana and Futami Sui's works and they tend to average around 6 or 7 for their Bayesian estimate. (Meanwhile, stuff like Kaguya-sama wa Kokurasetai, which I find cute but a little one-note, averages around 8.7. Not to say it doesn't deserve that rating, but that I would rank Tsubana's stuff higher than that in my own estimations.) I generally don't care that much about ratings and don't hold them to be good indicators of quality.

Pretty much 100% agree with Suxinn.

Honestly, the number of series I consider good just keeps going up. I can pick up a random manga with a silly-sounding name and it can turn out super fun. I'm currently following 85 series that have updated in the last 3 months and I have negative opinions of only 6 of them (I just have a hard time not finishing stories I've started unless I've literally only read chapter 1, though I've dropped catastrophically boring series after 20+ chapters on occasion).

I mean, I might be a bit biased, my favorite types of manga have always been stuff like classic gag manga or things like Kinnikuman and early Dragon Ball, but, I think there's been a sharp decline as of late. Granted, I've been slacking a ton on keeping up so maybe I'm out of touch, but I think it's very similar to what's happened to the anime industry, in that companies are chasing this carrot on a stick of appealing to otaku and getting a "Safe bet" on returns/profits. Nobody really takes any risk anymore. It's just this incestuous cesspool of authors copying other popular manga, which in turn also copied it's concept from another one. Now I get of course wording it like that, that's what inspiration is, there's nothing TRULY original, but, what I mean is it feels so blatant. Everything's about teen boy wish fulfillment, with tons of cute girls to get neetbux from guys more interested in getting a quick fix so to speak, instead of real content.

Welcome to the watering hole, came here to wet your whistle?

Quote from AkumatsuT

Everything's about teen boy wish fulfillment, with tons of cute girls to get neetbux from guys more interested in getting a quick fix so to speak, instead of real content.

What's the problem with that and what is defined as "real content"? You may find this striking to believe, but a lot of people DO like reading stories about about guys pursuing their dreams/mission while surrounded by cute girls (Which is why it's a "general" thing). What do you want to change about that and why would you want to change that?

Actually, have you picked up Goblin Slayer (Novel)? There's a change for you where the protagonist is a social outcast who wants to go all "Rip and tear" that would make Doom blush that someone can finally understand him.

[img]http://www.dragonflycave.com/wpay/mew.gif[/img]

Well, I kinda worded it wrong if I'm honest. I get that people like that sort of thing, and that's perfectly fine. Likewise however while I think it certainly has a place to exist, what bothers me is it's nearly the only thing coming out lately. I know there's some variation here or there, but, it's mostly this coming out, with little to no in between. What's happening to anime and manga right now is largely almost a polar opposite to western animation. While that often tries to appeal to too many people at once and ends up feeling watered down from it, manga and anime, at least from what I can tell, constantly tries to appeal to too little people at once. It's always chasing after this niche otaku crowd and it's been leading further into this awful cycle, to the point where there's very little variation in what's being made.

Welcome to the watering hole, came here to wet your whistle?

It's a normal occurrence in any kind of industry. Innovation leads to demand which leads to the industry trying to meet the demand and homogenizing for profits until fatigue settles in and new demand for innovation arises.

In not too fond of this isekai craze but man just be glad you weren't here for romcom madness that happened a few years back. And claimed some respectable authors for the dark side (rip komi naoshi)

It's the same thing that happens every few years, don't be too worried and just mark down authors you like instead. Visibility is an issue but even I, who stopped aggressively looking for new stuff a while back, still find something precious from time to time.

And this is coming from a romance fanatic, the most saturated genre out there.

in need of romance?
uncommon, sad, sweet

Quote from AkumatsuT

What's happening to anime and manga right now is largely almost a polar opposite to western animation.

I agree with you on this statement, but I disagree with your reasoning.

Can you name any cartoon produced in the past 5 years that is actually good instead of just being decent, or isn't pushing diversity as it's "edge". Nick cancelled the CGI TMNT show (Which I did hear was fairing well), in favor of another reboot that uses terrible art and made April diverse. You have the She-Ra reboot which has become such a joke that trap art was made within hours of the first reveal (And they haven't fixed it in the months in-between). Thundercats Roar and High Guardian Spice is another in a long line of works following the potato-head example of Steven Universe (Along with the former earning the anger of everyone for trashing a 30 year old property). Teen Titans Go! is blackmailing fans to see the movie if they ever want to see a proper follow-up to a show that died over a decade ago. I heard that Adventure Time ended on one of the most disappointing endings to any series, after it was already suffering from a slow painful demise (On top of that, it started the Cal-Arts meme, which people don't fault series itself for, although they don't deny it's impact and damage). nuPowerpuff Girls is fanfiction for the writer that has a hard-on for Blossom (And what the Hell is up with the fourth girl?). That new Star Wars cartoon was universally bashed upon reveal. There's that upcoming Marvel show with every single character who just had their comics cancelled because they were so successful. MLP and Spongebob should have ended years ago. Neo Yokio is a joke, Big Mouth is an abomination, and there's more to come with trash such as Super Drags.

Meanwhile, let's see what's been coming out of the East. You have the Rage of Bahamut sequel, Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid, Cells at Work!, Pop Team Epic, Uchi no Maid ga Uzasugiru!, Overlord (Novel), DARLING in the FRANXX, Kemono Friends, Tsuujou Kougeki ga Zentai Kougeki de Ni-kai Kougeki no Okaa-san wa Suki desu ka? (Novel), Sora Yori mo Tooi Basho: A Story That Leads to the Antarctica, Girls' Last Tour, Made in Abyss, Boku no Hero Academia and Netojuu no Susume. Currently, I'm watching Zombieland Saga. Quite the contrast, isn't it?

[img]http://www.dragonflycave.com/wpay/mew.gif[/img]

Quote from Transdude1996

Quote from AkumatsuT

Everything's about teen boy wish fulfillment, with tons of cute girls to get neetbux from guys more interested in getting a quick fix so to speak, instead of real content.

What's the problem with that and what is defined as "real content"?

You know, people have different interests, so a lack of diversity when it comes to genres can certainly be thought of as a problem by those not into those extremely popular (or rather, well-paying) ones.

Quote from Transdude1996

Meanwhile, let's see what's been coming out of the East. You have the Rage of Bahamut sequel, Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid, Cells at Work!, Pop Team Epic, Uchi no Maid ga Uzasugiru!, Overlord (Novel), DARLING in the FRANXX, Kemono Friends, Tsuujou Kougeki ga Zentai Kougeki de Ni-kai Kougeki no Okaa-san wa Suki desu ka? (Novel), Sora Yori mo Tooi Basho: A Story That Leads to the Antarctica, Girls' Last Tour, Made in Abyss, Boku no Hero Academia and Netojuu no Susume. Currently, I'm watching Zombieland Saga. Quite the contrast, isn't it?

While I'm not the person you are responding to...what's the point of this list? Did you want to show us how it's lacking in diversity? With just "comedy" and "little girls" I cover everything you listed except for Rage of Bahamut.

I agree with the OP. I'm an old man who likes seinen manga and offbeat manga and above all manga about real life in THIS WORLD, or at least a world much like it. Complete with people who act like real people and not either artificially cute or hypermacho waving their swords around.

I think these have always been rare, but now the big thing is the "called to another world" deal, which almost by definition is going to be unrealistic fantasy.

Very sad for me.

Quote from cecropiamoth

I'm an old man who likes seinen manga...

This is actually something I have an issue with...the word "seinen" because rather than indicating anything content-wise, it just refers to the demographic group it targets. However, for some reason, magazines decided that manga about little girls going to school (Azumanga Daiou for example) belong to the same group as manga with mature themes, gore, drama etc (Shigurui, Blame!, Gin to Kin...). It's totally pointless looking at it from a broader perspective.

Have you read Tales of a Charcoal Burner? Try giving that a shot.

However, I wasn't particularly happy with the author's end note to the entire series.

[img]http://www.dragonflycave.com/wpay/mew.gif[/img]

Quote from Lucumo

While I'm not the person you are responding to...what's the point of this list? Did you want to show us how it's lacking in diversity? With just "comedy" and "little girls" I cover everything you listed except for Rage of Bahamut.

This, that's what I'm getting at. Mind you, I'm totally fine with moegirl stuff or other things existing, there's always a place for it. But, when it gets to the point where everything is like that, that's when it becomes my problem. Granted I'll also admit it's somewhat selfish as well. Part of why it bothers me is because none of the kind of content I'm interested in is ever getting produced in order to make way for more of the same, and it's a pain. But, also, it's because on top of that, I know other people with different interests are also being neglected, and likewise I hear so much from the usual talking heads in the anime and manga community about supporting the industry, when the industry is producing absolutely nothing I'd want to support.

Welcome to the watering hole, came here to wet your whistle?

Quote from AkumatsuT

Granted I'll also admit it's somewhat selfish as well. Part of why it bothers me is because none of the kind of content I'm interested in is ever getting produced in order to make way for more of the same, and it's a pain. But, also, it's because on top of that, I know other people with different interests are also being neglected, and likewise I hear so much from the usual talking heads in the anime and manga community about supporting the industry, when the industry is producing absolutely nothing I'd want to support.

To be fair, humans are inherently selfish beings, 99+% of the things we do are selfish. Even if you work for a charity or something and help people, at the end it's for your own selfish desires, your convictions, your way of life. The most selfless thing is probably something like throwing yourself in front of a car to save another person without thinking about it at all. But how often does something like that actually happen? Anyway, what I wanted to bring across...there is nothing wrong with being selfish. It's your life after all and voicing your opinion and wants/needs is never wrong.
That's just how it is. The non-Japanese market is too small, so mostly only the popular stuff gets brought over which in turn breeds consumers that are into these popular things. While some people will obviously deviate over time, they are too small in numbers to have any real impact. So the only "support" one can give is to import those titles and support their domestic market. The problem here is that for anime, it's ridiculously overpriced. Manga, however, are fine. Still, only adults can do that on their own which definitely limits things.
(So learning Japanese would be ideal...which I really need to start doing...eventually.)