Quote from Tanith

Quote from bully_jesus

Quote from Tanith

But no matter what, I think it's our duty to love our country.

As a German, i think that it is obvious why no one should love their country as a duty.

Anybody willing to say otherwise is up for a fight with me, the light weight forum poster master of anti nationalism. ( growl )

Well, at least i can treat my children like shit and still expect them to love me.

EDIT: Tanith, do you take your nic from the 40k warhammer universe?

I said the duty is to love the country, I never said anything about invading neighbouring countries to show your love to your country.
I mean defending my country from invaders? sure. But entering a war I don't believe in? Hell no! (And I don't believe in any war)

And my nick is not from warhammer. Warhammer probably had the same inspiration source that I had. Meaning Phoenician mythology.

Hmmm, so fighting invading armies is fine, but not invading them. So because i love my country i will try to shoot down american bombers trying to bomb dresden, however i will not sink ships crossing the atlantic to supply bombers with bombs.

The thin line between invading and defending is not existent anymore. Today both Germany and USA are protecting themselves by invading other countries. ( afgahnistan, Irak, and many other places ) So does this belong to the duty of loving ones country?

P.S. should have known that Gamesworkshop stole the word Tanith form somewhere

The line between defense and offense has never been thin. It's bush screwed logic that made it that way.
There is no way you can bring peace, and avoid war by invading a country.
And what do you expect me to do if someone starts bombing my house, plundering our ressources, raping my wife etc... Well I'm going to fight back. Sorry but no matter how peace loving I am. I'm not a fool.
And i'm only fighting back until the invader leaves. I'm not going to continue fighting him on his teritory after that. As long as he leaves me in peace. I don't want to do anything with him.
When someone hits me, i will hit him back. As long as he is still hitting me, i'll keep hitting him. The moment he stops I'll stop too.
That's what I call defense.
If someone hit you and go running to hide behind someone else. You don't go running after him and start hitting everyone he ever hid behind. That is not defense sorry.

I need no sig...

Quote from Tanith

The line between defense and offense has never been thin. It's bush screwed logic that made it that way.
There is no way you can bring peace, and avoid war by invading a country.
And what do you expect me to do if someone starts bombing my house, plundering our ressources, raping my wife etc... Well I'm going to fight back. Sorry but no matter how peace loving I am. I'm not a fool.
And i'm only fighting back until the invader leaves. I'm not going to continue fighting him on his teritory after that. As long as he leaves me in peace. I don't want to do anything with him.
When someone hits me, i will hit him back. As long as he is still hitting me, i'll keep hitting him. The moment he stops I'll stop too.
That's what I call defense.
If someone hit you and go running to hide behind someone else. You don't go running after him and start hitting everyone he ever hid behind. That is not defense sorry.

tadaa!!!! thats exactly what i meant! As a german living in the beginning of the 40s that was the reason to fight for the Nazis, beacuse the Soviet Union and the US/UK wanted complete surrender. Because the people where afraid to be invaded. And when they were invaded, all the more reason so.

 and the line between invasion and offence has always been thin. Here are some wars which were started by stronger powers on false claims of protecting themselves.   

1. WW II, germany attacked the soviet union because they were going to attack them, germany attacked poland because they invaded ( yes, officially the third reich shot back , well according to third reich officials )

2. Irak, no Weopons of Mass destruction

3. Vietnam, the north vietnamese did not attack the naval boat as proclaimed by the US

    Sticking to your country when somebody threatens from outside means supporting your taliban ( the afganistan state did not attack a other state ), means shooting at israeli soldiers invading your country ( you can't help it that other peole shoot rockets at them ) , means sticking to your country no matter how corrupt, unjust and violent your county is.
   

   I think the whole trick is to understand, that the enemy might be better than you yourself are. That it is probably better to be invaded by the US and Soviets thatn keep Nazi germany running.

Quote from bully_jesus

tadaa!!!! thats exactly what i meant! As a german living in the beginning of the 40s that was the reason to fight for the Nazis, beacuse the Soviet Union and the US/UK wanted complete surrender. Because the people where afraid to be invaded. And when they were invaded, all the more reason so.

Listen, I don't know why but it seems you didn't get what I was saying.

Quote from bully_jesus

 and the line between invasion and offence has always been thin. Here are some wars which were started by stronger powers on false claims of protecting themselves.   

1. WW II, germany attacked the soviet union because they were going to attack them, germany attacked poland because they invaded ( yes, officially the third reich shot back , well according to third reich officials )
2. Irak, no Weopons of Mass destruction
3. Vietnam, the north vietnamese did not attack the naval boat as proclaimed by the US

All those right now are not DEFENSE.
When you attack an enemie on his teritory it is not defense!!! it's not hard to understand I mean. You can only call it defense when you are fighting on your teritory. Any kind of offensive maneuver is like it's name suggest... offense.

Quote from bully_jesus

    Sticking to your country when somebody threatens from outside means supporting your taliban ( the afganistan state did not attack a other state ), means shooting at israeli soldiers invading your country ( you can't help it that other peole shoot rockets at them ) , means sticking to your country no matter how corrupt, unjust and violent your county is.  

I think the whole trick is to understand, that the enemy might be better than you yourself are. That it is probably better to be invaded by the US and Soviets thatn keep Nazi germany running

Yes I know that. But if my corrupt and unjust governemnet is not causing trouble to anyone else beside me. It should be my own freaking problem to solve. I don't want anyone "help" by bombing all over the place sorry.
Do you honestly think that the iraki are in a btter state now than what they where before with saddam? I don't think so, and the death tolls before and after should be a good indication to anyone.

Ok here is another example that should exaplain how I see defense offense, and how I think everybody should see it:
Let's say I live in a neighbourhood in america. And I have my own gun for self defense (I'm against weapons but it serves the purpose of the example so bear with it)
Scenario 1: defense
And a robber enters my house, I shoot at him to scare him. If he runs away I call the cops. If he doesn't I shoot him for real. (and I call the cops too)

Scenario 2: NOT defense
I suspect that my neighbour posses rocket luncher and full auto weapons (weapons of mass destruction)!! and he is planning to use them against another neighbour who doesn't have a gun! OMG!! So do you think the right solution was to call all my friends and enters the guys house and start shooting like madmans and then look for proof?
Or maybe should I have caled the cops (The united nations) and gave them the proofs I have and let them investigate the matter?
The most logical solution would be 2 in this scenario.

I have others scenarios in mind but my post is already going to be long enough like this... And I think this should be enough to explain how I view the subject.
And tell me bully_jesus does that mean if france goes berserk for no reason and decide to invade germany you're going to be there watching?

I need no sig...

Well,yeah I do. Can't really complain about it. xD

Though our capital,Oslo,has the nice 'honor' of being the most expensive city in the world (if I remember correctly). O.o

"Things that are evil in the light might be good when done in the dark"

I bleed the Red White and Blues

Listen here
Livin just to keep from dyin
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I think to really know how much you love your country you have to live abroad a few years ....You suddenly realize a lot of small things (which are not so small actually) that you are missing or that you find disturbing.... and the fact that you know them (and obviously you cannot be aware of everything ) is not all the same thing than living them for real on a daily basis...
Then and only then you can tell if you love your country or not ....

I live in Seoul, and it's by far the best place I've ever lived in my entire life.

Broadband internet is cheap and prevalent, there are nearby libraries and centers for various things, there are conventions, manhwa and manga are about 3.5-5$ a volume, music is downloadable (aka bugsmusic), there are graphic novel, novel, and video/dvd rentals (20cent a volume to read for a day, and 1$ for a movie for a day), you can buy pretty much anything online for a cheap price (I got a 1GB mp3 player for less than 22$ including shipping and it came in one day), there are historical/cultural places like the royal palace, and tons more fun things to enjoy in this city.

There are some drawbacks, such as the yellow sand that comes from the West (deserts of China) during spring-time, pirating, heavy traffic in some places, and small housing, but if you have some dough, it's a wonderful place to explore.

http://eofusion.googlepages.com
http://360.yahoo.com/axisofoddity
http://axisofoddity.googlepages.com/

Saudi Arabia,,

and no, i dont love it... and that doesnt mean i hate it

it is a nice place, quite, ppl r nice (where i live) weather is killing but...

it could be much better but ppl dont care

those who have power and money only think of how to save money as much as possible by cheating and doing a lousy job (95% of them)

no quality (bldgs, streets, markets)

monopoly on internet connections, airlines, phones, mobile services, ... and much more

yet, its a safe place and ppl r really friendly (again, where i live)

I love my planet. Imaginary lines on a map do not diminish my love to mere specific locales.

Canada rules, screw what south park says

Quote from Vudoodude

Canada rules, screw what south park says

It's just a show XD;;

Live in the US and at the moment, no for various reasons.

[img]http://www.finitesite.com/silverfantasy/sweet-haine2.png[/img]

Quote from James Knight

I love my planet. Imaginary lines on a map do not diminish my love to mere specific locales.

Second this statement. =)

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Am I the only Patriotic SOB around here? Sure, I may hate my government, but that is why the constitution has a clause for a redress of grievances...

Oh well my 2cents 🤨

Listen here
Livin just to keep from dyin
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Well it's this is the only place I've ever lived so I guess yeah. =D My neighborhood is mostly quiet and I've known my neighbors for almost 20 years so it's all good. =3