I was mostly talking about higher education. Naturally K-12, and equivalents thereof, should be both compulsory and have a "free" option for everyone (though we all pay taxes, which in most developed countries also tend to be regressive). The idea is that people who have a substantial amount of money can actually afford to pay and still maintain additional benefits simply from having more monetary assets- the number of areas that they become "disadvantaged" in doesn't really matter as long as the charge isn't excessive. Everything's a matter of balance.

It should also be noted, though, that from a statistical standpoint class mobility in both directions remains shockingly insignificant, even in states which are theoretically more "free" like the US (or at least less regulated). If the strata of society you belong to is not going to change in the vast majority of cases, a level of equalizing force needs to stick around so that everyone can at least have a shot at a stable life. Equality isn't possible- there are always going to be economical winners and losers- so we shouldn't set that as a standard; the goal instead should just be to minimize the number of losers, or at least make things so that the losers don't have to live in constant financial turmoil.

hm yea i see your way of thinking, we should reduce the amount of loosers?
Radicaly thinking about it, shouldn't we be aiming for a system that is right not one that is substantial?

We really need to make the correct diductions in tax acording to wages and make adducation free to people of certain ages. Our capatalist sociaty has created things so everyman is theoraticaly capable of becoming a millonair with the right risks and links.
We are not controlled by companies prices, there are certain rules to controll companies so that the upper class never stays upper class and monopolies the economy. These restrcitions are like banning maybe 2 of the most majour competitors in something and banning them combining to become one> because they would not compete and monopolise us.

We are trying to give every person a shot at succes depending on luck, work and effort, not a spiral of upper class transcending gorvenment.

3rd world countries i agree school fee's is the way for now, but richer countries should aim for a more admirable, ideal education...not a monopolised one. Minimising the loosers is more along the lines of communism 🤣

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I believe in letting people do as they wish, as do I myself. Sometimes, of course, what I wish to do is kill them and they do not wish to die. This gives life interest.
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I live in Sweden and, as Emuchan mentioned with regards to Germany, education is free here as well. I'm a postgrad and I've never paid any tuition fees. Which is nice, because my parents would probably not be able to pay my way through uni and my health situation would prevent me from working more than I do already.
It's all funded through the taxes here, which I think is a good thing... I'm fine with paying a bit more in taxes when I work if it means other young people get to go to university regardless of their socio-economic background. The only thing I pay is approximately $15-20 each semester for the students' union and all my books (though that's no great sacrifice to me, I like having books).

Another good thing is ofcourse that the competition for a place at university is based on grades, not money. So when you're admitted you know that you got there because of your own hard work and nothing else. As for valuing your education... I've never met anyone, at least not at my alma mater, who doesn't take their education very seriously. If money is the only thing that makes your young people value their education and not drop out, then I'm not sure if they're the kind who should be at university.
Actually, there is a financial incentive here as well, in the form of a small amount of financial aid and a pretty advantageous student loan (To help pay for your housing, food etc. You can take this out for a maximum of 6 years.) and if you don't pass your classes every semester you lose the right to this.

Just my humble opinion ofcourse. (And whilst I'm only talking about higher education here, anything below uni is also free... unless you go to a private school, but those are few and far between.)
Ok, I'm probably rambling a bit now (I'm prone to that, you should hear me giving talks/lectures etc. ^_^). In short, my opinion is that you shouldn't have to pay for education because this encourages social mobility and places the weight on academic suitability, not socio-economic background. Ofcourse, because it's funded by taxes you ultimately do end up paying for it when you and your parents work, and that's a pretty good system if you ask me.

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Quote from Toto

California's CC's unit price is 26 dollars with the average class being 3 units, which equals 78 dollars a class.

I was mostly talking about the average socio-economic status of the CC crowd, which doesn't change from New York to Cali. Once you factor in the cost of living/wages, Cali's CC rates aren't that much cheaper. I just think your reasoning misses just how complex the problem really is. For the record, most everybody I know who gets gov't financial aid still has to work for his/her education anyway 'cause financial aid never covers everything, or he/she has to work to pay rent and all that jazz (remember, the average CC student is older/not living at home/part time/has at least one kid/etc.)

Secondly, if one gets paid/has a scholarship for college, does one not feel responsible to do one's best in class?

I managed to screw up quite a few classes spectacularly and I know quite a few honors kids who did too/got kicked out/etc. I'm paying for my last year of school 'cause my scholarship ran out(it was for 4, this is my 5th), but my primary motivator for doing decently is to get my degree so that I can start grad-school in the fall. The money barely registers, even though it's a decent chunk of my bank account and I would have more if I'd finished on time.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, don't students lose their scholarships when they preform poorly in their classes?

Yeah, but if you rack up enough decent credits before you trash your transcript...

i think im pretty undecided opn this..
yes, maybe because.. ugh.. to achieve a higher class education..
no, because just because you pay huge sums of money doesnt mean that you will learn something or earnm something for certain.. <- but seriously my statement here make school sound like a dry run..

anyways... for me who pays for education.. i will say, "yes"

oh please do click this!
The sweeter the apple, the higher the branch. The quieter the fart, the nastier the smell.
GUESS WHO??

Well, of course I'm all for free education, but with free education comes with no one trying to do anything. The rate of unemployment will be extremely high too since everyone will have our requirements of degrees and what not. The requirements will be much harder, and our country will be so overworked and depressed... so.... UNDECIDED. KYAHHAHAH~

avatar's from kaiyorihito kaiyorishiki

Should I pay for my edu?Of coz, nothing is free even to use toilet i need to pay lol...But it still an exception to encourage students to get highest score in study then they no need to pay for uni fees.

I agree with a lot of people who have already posted that k-12 should be free, since in Canada it's mandatory to go to school.

I also think that we should pay tuition, however, the prices should go down because not only is tuition expensive, but the books are expensive, and everything else.

I don't think that if you had a higher cost of tuition that it would really detract students because I know a lot of students who go to university for no reason other than because their parents expect them to. They seem think that going to university is a joke which really annoys me plus their parents are paying for their schooling. People are told that university is the way to go in Canada to get jobs (as was said before, you can't get any job unless you have some kind of degree), but in reality college is probably the way to go because everybody has a dang university degree and you aren't specializing in anything specific with an undergrad. Anyways, lower tuition prices because higher tuition prices don't detract people. (As well with higher tuition comes scholarships, bursaries etc. so people with less income are more motivated)

Quote from haru-sama

Well, of course I'm all for free education, but with free education comes with no one trying to do anything.

Really? That's a pretty bleak way to view things.
We have free education and I've yet to meet anyone being so careless with their education that they didn't try their best. I must be extraordinarily lucky to have been surrounded with serious and studious types. Besides, if (as you said) no one tried to do anything, then no one would be at uni because they would all have been kicked out. Free education doesn't mean that there are no standards to live up to. (In a way you could say that they're higher, because you're in competition with everyone who has the brains, no one gets weeded out just because they don't have the money.)

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Quote from cassielkun

Quote from haru-sama

Well, of course I'm all for free education, but with free education comes with no one trying to do anything.

Really? That's a pretty bleak way to view things.
We have free education and I've yet to meet anyone being so careless with their education that they didn't try their best. I must be extraordinarily lucky to have been surrounded with serious and studious types. Besides, if (as you said) no one tried to do anything, then no one would be at uni because they would all have been kicked out. Free education doesn't mean that there are no standards to live up to. (In a way you could say that they're higher, because you're in competition with everyone who has the brains, no one gets weeded out just because they don't have the money.)

Say word. Where the heck do you live?
There are people in my college who PAY and then mess around ending up getting kicked out or dropping out. They even WASTE $3000+.

And then in high school SO many people skipped. And I KNOW that wasn't just my school.

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Quote from Kitteh_13

Say word. Where the heck do you live?
There are people in my college who PAY and then mess around ending up getting kicked out or dropping out. They even WASTE $3000+.

And then in high school SO many people skipped. And I KNOW that wasn't just my school.

I'm a postgrad, living in Sweden.
Well, obviously there ARE people who mess around here as well, but to the best of my knowledge they are few and far between. So few and far between that I can't really recall personally being in contact with anyone like that. (No, I'm wrong, I remember this one girl from my first year as an undergraduate, but she left after one semester.) Most students I meet actually invest a lot of time and effort into their studies. (I'm talking about university now, there are more people playing around when in compulsory education or our equivalent to high-school, but most people who skip school and mess about excessively then either choose not to go on to uni or can't go on to uni because their grades aren't good enough to compete with those of us who actually applied ourselves.)

Obviously I can't assert anything with scientific certainty because, at the end of the day, it's just my personal observation.

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I'd say for University, (or Post-secondary), yes, you should pay for it. But not for K-12.

I have to pay for my education. Where I am, there are local schools, only those who speak the language can attend. Then there's an Indian School, only up to Grade 10. Then there's a Phillipine International School, not accredited in the US. And then there's an American International School, fees about $15,000 a year, K-12. (Though, I guess, we don't pay taxes.)

I dont speak the local language. I'm supposed to be in Grade 11. I'm going to go to a university in the US, hence I'd need an accredited school. And I really don't want to use all my money on the American School, where all they would teach is how to speak English properly. Now where am I supposed to go? I just moved here last month, and due to the lack of focus on education here, I'm doing online schooling, where I have to pay about $500 per course. The rest of the schools are in another city, 3 hours away.

I was in Canada before this, Edmonton. Over there, how studious you are, it all depends on the school. And I was in one of the worst schools there, no one studied. I did full IB courses, along with my friends, and their marks dropped from 90 to 50 in less than a year. I doubt they would study even if they payed for their education. After all, at least until high school, won't your parents pay for your education? If you fail in high school, how the hell are you going to do good in University? Though I guess, that's only for the school I went to. The teachers there sucked.

I'm probably rambling a bit now...(I really hated that school <_<) ; In Canada schools get about $5000 per student (more if they're in IB/AP), in the US and Switzerland, they pay about $11,000 per student.

I also learned that the taxes we pay for Health, Education, etc. also go towards grants for people making movies, or documentaries about Canada. Directors, making a documentary in a positive light towards Canada, can get about about $500,000 or more, to make it.

^ I really have no idea what I just said...sleepy

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You Should!
You should pay back people who gives you enlightenment for that enlightenment would make your life easier. You don't have to pay them back with money, but money is the easier medium to do it, and more and more educator willing to adopt this kind of payment. You don't want to be called the thief of knowledge, do you?

And, don't narrow your definition of education only to formal education. I forego many kind of educations, formal is just one of them, and formal is one of the few who use money as the way to pay the educator back.

grammar mistake is intentional, grammar nazis need their entertainment.

Quote from yuno19

You Should!
You should pay back people who gives you enlightenment for that enlightenment would make your life easier. You don't have to pay them back with money, but money is the easier medium to do it, and more and more educator willing to adopt this kind of payment. You don't want to be called the thief of knowledge, do you?

And, don't narrow your definition of education only to formal education. I forego many kind of educations, formal is just one of them, and formal is one of the few who use money as the way to pay the educator back.

Well, where education is funded by tax you DO end up paying for it in the end, because higher education usually lead to higher income which in turn leads to you putting more money back into the system in the form of tax. Which is then used to fund the education of those that come after you. I quite like the idea of a society where we help eachother out and where education is seen as a thing that is available to those who seek it and are willing to put the effort into it, regardless of their economic situation.
But that may just be me and I can be a silly old idealist sometimes.

Your idea about "stealing knowledge" is kind of ludicrous, because it's more or less impossible to steal knowledge. You can steal information, but I'm not so sure about knowledge. However, I do agree that there are many different ways to acquire knowledge and that formal education is merely one.

Oh, and by the way, I believe you've misunderstood the meaning of the word "forego". Forego means: give up (something), relinquish, surrender, renounce etc. Pretty much to do without something. For example: "I've been known to forego food and clothes in order to buy more books."
Could the word you were looking for possibly have been "undergo"? (As in to go, or live, through something.)
See, I just offered you knowledge, whether or not you acquire it, and use it, is up to you.

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Quote from cassielkun

Could the word you were looking for possibly have been "undergo"?

i must be sleepy that time. yes, i'm mistaken, and thanks for the correction. (i'm not anymore good in english, please forgive if i repeat the same kind of mistake)

about stealing knowledge, you should not take the term literally as in money/stuff thieving. it means, you ask for the knowledge, use it for your own good, but don't appreciate the one who transfer it to you. its just rude. i study martial art under two sensei, one of them asks to pay tuition (which i bet he doesn't need. imagine, its only equivalent to three to four dollars a month, yet i can practice three times a week, and more if i want), the other sensei says money isn't the main issue, if i show up regularly showing my determination/willingness to learn, he considers it appreciated. see? if i don't at least give my sensei these, what am i to be called?

yes, your ideal is a good one. but often, stomach matter more than education. in my country, most give up their education to have more money by working more. i'm a bit sad, but i guess, that's just the way it is for now. i have dream to raise people awareness so that they don't waste their time for measly amount of money. but i need at least another 15 years to work on that.

oh, one more thing. willingness to pay can be used to eliminate ones who don't really need the knowledge from the bunch.

grammar mistake is intentional, grammar nazis need their entertainment.

to put it sipmly: knowledge is for free, education is not. Need more explaination?