The way I think of things like this is to look at the magazine that the manga is in. For example, I read Shounen Ace every month (Deadman Wonderland and Mirai Nikki), and I don't think Deadman is out of place in there at all. It's pretty decidedly juvenile action with a small amount of gore on about 5% of the pages, with a main character that's intended to appeal to people that have yet to make it into college, a few terrible gay jokes, and 'deep' superficial life lessons. Violence just isn't a deciding factor when placing a story into a magazine. Deadman would never fit into any of the seinen publications that I frequent.

These stories are grouped based on genre and age demographics and are made to appeal to those groups. Deadman Wonderland has little girls holding heads because 14 year old boys will go "Woah! I can't believe they did that, this manga is awesome!". If that same scene was to come up a few pages after a chapter of Shigurui where a guy gets lobotomized by a deformed assassin and then has his legs cut off and eaten while his wife is being raped by a group of drunks, no one would be all that shocked anymore.

Can't the shounen demographic include anyone up to 17 or even 18 year olds?

Taking this into account I don't see how Deadman Wonderland or Claymore or Deathnote could be considered too mature or whatever to be considered for the shounen demographic.

You know, this isn't a terribly useful thing to discuss. Most of the people who think that [insert name of shounen manga with some silly gore and a moderate sampling of boobs] "should be" seinen will usually understand on their own in a couple of years why it isn't. It's not really something that can be simply explained. (Well, other than the obvious rule. Seinen mag, seinen manga. Shounen mag, shounen manga.)

Now, this is veering off topic a bit, but personally I find it much harder to differentiate shoujo from josei. Possibly because I have some experience at being a boy, but none at being a girl 😉

Quote from pnyxtr

Now, this is veering off topic a bit, but personally I find it much harder to differentiate shoujo from josei. Possibly because I have some experience at being a boy, but none at being a girl

a)Same rule as seinen/shounen- it's the magazine
b)same as what you're saying, take a couple of years and you can usually understand why something is shoujo vs. josei. Man, i think the easiest way of explaining is it's like the difference between a shounen romantic comedy and seinen one. Characterization and dynamics are a bit different, as is the conflict/drama and the whole tone of the manga.

I've read one or two seinens that I could maybe buy being shonens, but haven't seen anything the other way around.

Eureka Seven is seinen IMO. despite of those childish mecha fight.
but the deep plot is definitely not for younger audience/reader.

It's coming of age, which makes it perfect for a shounen audience, plus the symbolism is outlined in broad enough strokes that the average boy should be able to understand it, and the story doesn't become incomprehensible just 'cause he doesn't understand it.

im kinda thinkin that a lot of these opinions are kinda off. manga like DW, claymore, DN, and mirai nikki all have a sort of hopefulness you wont find in most seinen bloodbaths like Gantz and Berserk, which were friggin soul-crushingly evil in the beginning, though theyve gotten way less depressing now.

im ignoring the sex and gore here, but even with that, i stand by it

Quote from story645

a)Same rule as seinen/shounen- it's the magazine
b)same as what you're saying, take a couple of years and you can usually understand why something is shoujo vs. josei.

Yes, of course. I meant in the case where I don't know what mag it ran in (or, more commonly, when I don't know of the mag in question). Shounen/seinen is quite often an easy distinction to make, to me. Shoujo/josei has a much larger grey area in the middle where I can't really tell which it's supposed to be, only by reading.
Unless I just assume everything with furigana is shoujo. But that's cheating. (And not always correct either.)

It would be great if all manga were sold as Seinen or Josei. The story wouldn't really change they could be a shonen or shoujo themed as they want but it would give the writer the room to add sex, drugs and violence when the appropriate situation arose.

Example the average Shonen/Shojo romance they like each other, they are going out, they are even sometimes living together yet nothing anyway sexual happens... when in real life most kids over the age of 14 are fucking like Rabbits.... 🤣

Quote from Rob1988

in real life most kids over the age of 14 are fucking like Rabbits.... 🤣

I certanly did 😛 , now im much older thou....15 😮

"Sanity is for the weak"

Quote from Rob1988

It would be great if all manga were sold as Seinen or Josei. The story wouldn't really change they could be a shonen or shoujo themed as they want but it would give the writer the room to add sex, drugs and violence when the appropriate situation arose.

😃 Damn right! My only qualm with this would be some may take it too far.

Sayonara Zetsubo Sensei, NHK ni Yokoso, Neon Genesis Evangelion, Claymore, and Death Note.

Quote from Rob1988

Example the average Shonen/Shojo romance they like each other, they are going out, they are even sometimes living together yet nothing anyway sexual happens... when in real life most kids over the age of 14 are fucking like Rabbits.... 🤣

This is very true. Like in REC they live together and are always looking for the right time to have to have sex for the second time (granted they haven't found one yet). Whereas there are tons of shonen romance stories where the subject is ignored almost entirely save for the obligatory ecchi moments.

Also, I don't think that the NGE manga should be seinen. It's very simple and juvenile compared to it's anime counterpart; well anything would be, but even so it still follows the standard shonen mecha formula.

I think Variante should've been seinen. It's very dark and disturbing; containing little to no humor no glaring cliches.

Finally the shonen demographic mostly pertain to young boys from age 10-15 but some do cater towards and older audience. Can't imagine publishers and mangaka wanting their 5th graders reenacting murder scenes from Rabbit Doubt and MPD Psycho.

LOOK AT MY WITTY SIG!!11!!!!11

Worst - Eventhough it was supposed to be a high impact highschool gangster drama, none of the characters in the manga look like a highschooler. They are more like some twenty something guys duking it out with each other and it can get pretty nasty at times so i'm not sure it should falls under the shonen genre.

Ryuuroden - Lotsa massacre in this one, heads flying limbs torned off it can be pretty gruesome so once again, i don't think it belongs in the shonen genre

Fist of The North Star - I'm pretty dumbfounded when i found out that this manga was classify as shonen. I mean, any which way you look at it, it screams seinen out loud 😎

You like the things that i HATE, and i HATE the things that you like

Full Metal Alchemist.

The concept of human experimentation seems a little too dark to be a shounen. But the content and the atmosphere when they aren't in the thick of ethical rights and wrongs makes it feel like a shounen.

[color=#ff0000]"“That's the difference between me and the rest of the world!
Happiness isn't good enough for me! I demand euphoria!” "[/color]

I think the recent Psyren should have been a seinen

Quote from Calliber

Full Metal Alchemist.

The concept of human experimentation seems a little too dark to be a shounen. But the content and the atmosphere when they aren't in the thick of ethical rights and wrongs makes it feel like a shounen.

i 2nd this one.... i never understood why exactly this is shounen, the concept and plot are very deep and complex, and there's also pretty graphic murder scenes as well......it could easily be serialized in a seinen magazine

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