If I am right, the Shinigami captains and lieutenants must have permission for using their full power - we can see this for the first time when the Arrancar, the Números went to earth for the first time and fought with Tōshirō Hitsugaya, Rangiku Matsumoto etc. who were no match for the Números. But when permission is given by 'Soul Society', i.e. when the limit is lift off, the Shinigamis beat easily the Números. So, there's is a possibility that when Ichigo went to rescue Rukia ('the Rescue Arc') there's a limit on the captains and lieutenants etc. (the limit was probably not lift off since Ichigo was 'just' a rookie) And that also explains why the captains are now more powerfull when fighting in Hueco Mundo, since the limit on the captains are obviously lift off for fighting powerful opponents like the Espada.

There are plenty of reasons for Ichigo to seem weak but that's not the case here. He may be weak in techniques and such but his spirit power (reiatsu) if off the scale as all of you should. Also now he's even more powerful because he can use the power of the hollow inside him.

Reason why Noitora beat the hell out of Ichigo so easily is because he was pretty badly beat up by Grimjaw (Grimjow). Ichigo was protecting that girl.. umm don't remember the name at the moment, shame on me. But he was protecting her at the same time and took a few pretty big blows because of that. So he wasn't exactly in a very good shape when Noitora showed himself.

And why Zaraki seems so much more powerful. Well he's always a madman with insane reiatsu, Ichigo just happened to beat him because he's even more powerful. So anyway Zaraki had a fresh start against Noitora which Ichigo obviously didn't have, and Zaraki and Ichigo are pretty much alike since neither of them knows any Kidou or any super cool finnishing moves or anything like that. They're just brutes with godlike reiatsu. So I wasn't surprised that Zaraki seemed powerful.

And why Byakuya seemed so powerful. He knows kidou pretty well and was already one of the strong ones in Soul society. He just discovered a weakness in the enemy's technique and exploited pretty damn well. So it wasn't much of fight because of that.

And finally Mayuri. He's just mad scientist who sold his soul the devil, so to speak. Before the fight he had already done some preparations, but I would call it luck that the enemy decided devour the vice-captain and took in the poison. Otherwise it was just battle of the brains pretty much I'd say.

By the way, have you seen Ichigo slay anything that looks like a human in cold blood in the whole series? I can't recall anything like that ever happening. So it's no surprise if Ichigo has hard times with enemies since he doesn't want to kill them. He just wants to beat them and move forward. But the captains.. well they don't seem to value life too much. So of course it's much easier for them to go all out because they care if the target is alive after the battle. And from what I've seen, they prefer enemies dead rather alive. Aside from Kyoraku and Ukitake.

And I also think the limit was off while they fighting in soul society, but after that they just had luck with their enemies being who they were.

Quote from tc-man

If I am right, the Shinigami captains and lieutenants must have permission for using their full power - we can see this for the first time when the Arrancar, the Números went to earth for the first time and fought with Tōshirō Hitsugaya, Rangiku Matsumoto etc. who were no match for the Números. But when permission is given by 'Soul Society', i.e. when the limit is lift off, the Shinigamis beat easily the Números. So, there's is a possibility that when Ichigo went to rescue Rukia ('the Rescue Arc') there's a limit on the captains and lieutenants etc. (the limit was probably not lift off since Ichigo was 'just' a rookie) And that also explains why the captains are now more powerfull when fighting in Hueco Mundo, since the limit on the captains are obviously lift off for fighting powerful opponents like the Espada.

the limits were only placed on the captains and lieutenants when they come to earth otherwise there are no limiters - remember thats what renji tells ichigo when they fight in soul society - so there were no limiters when ichigo fought the captains in ss.

Quote from Aches

And why Zaraki seems so much more powerful. Well he's always a madman with insane reiatsu, Ichigo just happened to beat him because he's even more powerful. So anyway Zaraki had a fresh start against Noitora which Ichigo obviously didn't have, and Zaraki and Ichigo are pretty much alike since neither of them knows any Kidou or any super cool finnishing moves or anything like that. They're just brutes with godlike reiatsu. So I wasn't surprised that Zaraki seemed powerful.

And also didnt he use two hands(Kendo) instead of one during this fight?

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/Shadowgt/nemcompr_01.gif[/img]

Honestly it really does seem like Ichigo is 'gaining' new techniques got not really gaining much power.

Ichigo beat Byakkura with Bankai and Zaraki without it. So when Ichigo uses Bankai and hallow powers he should be beyond any of them. For that to not be true kind of breaks my immersion.

Quote from moondagger

...or he didnt learn kendo when he fought ichigo

He states that "its been a long time since I had to break this out, Kendo that is" and goes on to say he learned it when he entered the Gotei 13, I think he was just holding back cause he saw Ichigo's potential which Ichigo hasnt achieved to Yet.

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/Shadowgt/nemcompr_01.gif[/img]

Quote from rf_sanguinius

Quote from moondagger

Quote from rf_sanguinius

sometimes people have good days and sometimes bad days. and its been so long but doesn't Kenpachi only now know his swords name, thus making him even stronger then before

and that whole
Renji>Uryu
Uryu>Mayuri
Szayel Aporro Granz>Renji/Uryu
Mayuri>Szayel aporro Granz
can make sense in a way. just think Rock/Paper/Scissors

when did he learn his zanpaktou's name 😕 @thezombieking obviously if the manga is this long then he knows what he is doing

after Kenpachi's fight with Ichigo, weren't they bitching about him not knowing its name. and afterwards he learns it, or atleast its implied that he will

notice that you said he will future tense so could mean that he doesnt even know his zanpaktou's name yet but he will learn it in the future

@ridethewalrus....did they say that the espadas or how ever you spell it are way stronger then the captians..i think they said it only in the anime though im not sure if they said it in the manga to

i was nervous at first it was big & long & went straight up i had to try it i eased onto it & liked it! i went up & down on it.... i love escalators now! 😀

(great onizuka ftw)

Quote from moondagger

Quote from rf_sanguinius

sometimes people have good days and sometimes bad days. and its been so long but doesn't Kenpachi only now know his swords name, thus making him even stronger then before

and that whole
Renji>Uryu
Uryu>Mayuri
Szayel Aporro Granz>Renji/Uryu
Mayuri>Szayel aporro Granz
can make sense in a way. just think Rock/Paper/Scissors

@thezombieking obviously if the manga is this long then he knows what he is doing

Oooorrrr, he could just be BSing us all.

It does seems that way isn't it? It makes you wonder how the hell did he won against Kenpachi in the rescue Rukia arc. However, reading Aches long and detail argument, i can somewhat understand 🙂 .

But i do have my own view regarding this matter. As for Kenpachi losing to Ichigo in the previous arc, i think it was mainly due to the fact that he wasn't really going all out. Sort of like he's just testing Ichigo potential, from that fight, we can see that he can kill Ichigo like anytime he wishes but due to his habit of dilly dallying wanting to see Ichigo true power throw in a lil bit of carelessness he lost.

Plus, while in Hueco Mundo, he stumbles upon and fought one enemy after another while at the same time rushing to save his nakama, so you can pretty much imagined that he would suffer from it 😎 .

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People have good days, people have bad days; period.

Just because Person A beats Person B on Monday, doesn't mean Person B can't beat him on Thursday.

... If you get what I mean, capiche?

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Quote from Dr. Love

People have good days, people have bad days; period.

Just because Person A beats Person B on Monday, doesn't mean Person B can't beat him on Thursday.

... If you get what I mean, capiche?

Troof.

I could beat up tehzombieking and then he beats me up the next day. Called luck.

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I have to admit that I didn't too much about Zaraki, but now it seems he's on everyone's mind. And to be honest, I have to agree with Hyery on this subject. I think he was just enjoying the match with Ichigo rather than trying beat him down with full force. He just didn't expect him to quite that powerful, I think. And besides you saw how easily beat Noitora once he put his mind on it. I think he was just messing with him too, until he noticed in how bad shape he really was. That's when he decided use a two-hand sword technique instead of one-hand techniques (if you can call it technique) like he had until then.

So basically Ichigo would have been sliced and diced if Zaraki would have been serious against him during their first fight.

The mangaka probably makes him weaker just so he could make him stronger again. Just to make it seem interesting, but yeah, he has been getting weaker, a LOT weaker actually.

♪MONSTARR~ will eat all your cookies and steal your bishies~♪ Φ_Φ

no i dont think he is getting weaker, but hes not getting much stronger either.

well if you look at ichigo's mask it seems to be getting mor red stuff on it... maybe that means he's not gettin weaker?