@RexIX Your first point about protecting citizens of other countries... Russia soldiers in South Ossetia at the time of Georgia's attack were there as UN sanctioned peace keepers. There soldiers and citizens dieing seems pretty reasonable to respond.

Second point, so what if Russia was prepared, were they meant to nothing when a lot of intelligence pointed to Georgia's inevitable invasion of Ossteia...

Also it was European countries that voted against Georgia's entry into NATO Russia had no say in the matter, they might not have liked it but they couldn't do anything to stop it.

Ok so let me make this clear, you say that russians were there as UN sanctioned peacekeepers and KNEW about the georgian attack, but didn't do a shit to stop it. That's definetly how peacekeepers are supposed to act.

Well I can't say that russians have ever really cared about their own citizens. In Nord-Ost theater terrorists killed a very small number, while russian rescuers killed more then hundred. Not even talking about Chechenia were russia blew it's own citizens to peaces for very many years. And I still don't get why russia couldn't just evacuate it's own people (that would have costed less lives).

You are underastimating russia. The fact that russians have nothing to say about who may step into NATO doesn't mean they can't do anything about it. Let's just remmeber how they switched off Ukrainians heat in the middle of winter when pro-western people came to power there.

"Computer games don't affect kids....
I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music."
/Kristian Wilson, Nintendo Inc, 1989

Quote from lambchopsil

Keep this a serious and intelligent discussion and then I won't lock this

Well lamb, what is your opinion on this topic?

[color=green]Life, what would it be without so much wrongs and rights?
[/color]

[color=red]Star Trek XI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZiR-NETDr0[/color]

Quote from RexIX

Ok so let me make this clear, you say that russians were there as UN sanctioned peacekeepers and KNEW about the georgian attack, but didn't do a shit to stop it. That's definetly how peacekeepers are supposed to act.

Yeah your Government fell right into Russia's trap, Georgia was still the first to invade, Russia responded... To me that was a mistake of your PM. Maybe he thought his biggest Ally America would jump in to save him? 🙁

Quote from RexIX

Well I can't say that russians have ever really cared about their own citizens. In Nord-Ost theater terrorists killed a very small number, while russian rescuers killed more then hundred. Not even talking about Chechenia were russia blew it's own citizens to peaces for very many years. And I still don't get why russia couldn't just evacuate it's own people (that would have costed less lives).

How many civilians in Tskhinvali were killed by the shelling by Georgia? The city is in rubble, there is even whispers that civilian areas/amenities were purposefully shelled... You do know that's a War Crime? Yet Georgia still tries to tell the world that they are trying to liberate Gerogians stranded in South Ossetia...

Quote from RexIX

You are underastimating russia. The fact that russians have nothing to say about who may step into NATO doesn't mean they can't do anything about it. Let's just remmeber how they switched off Ukrainians heat in the middle of winter when pro-western people came to power there.

In this case NATO just didn't want yas 😛 Also I see nothing wrong with Russia not wanting NATO missiles sitting on their borders.... America made just as much noise when USSR had missiles in Cuba. So it's ok for the US to protect it's borders but not Russia? 🙁 Think how much trouble even today would occur if Mexico, Canada, Venezuela etc. suddenly announced an Alliance with Russia, they're would probably be war... ah double standards gotta love them 😀

Yeah your Government fell right into Russia's trap, Georgia was still the first to invade, Russia responded

So you think that war is the best solution to all problems? Do you thunk we really live in middle ages when the best diplomacy was war? There are more efective ways how to make a country act accordingly to the treaties it has signed.

How many civilians in Tskhinvali were killed by the shelling by Georgia?

Before russians intervened, Ositians said that 100 people had died, georgians said that about ten. But then the great russian saviors came and now the number accoding to russian sources is over 2000 in Ositia and hundreds of dead civilians from russian bombing of georgian cities.
Talking about war crimes do you know that russians together with osetians are looting georgian villiges and cities right now?

Also I see nothing wrong with Russia not wanting NATO missiles sitting on their borders.... America made just as much noise when USSR had missiles in Cuba.

Well I understand that for non-specialist people it's a pretty hard make out the difference between nuclear missiles that are battle ready and targeted precisly on one coutry, and anti-missile shield, that are used against incoming missile attacks. If russians are not planning to attack Europe I can't understand what's their problem.

"Computer games don't affect kids....
I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music."
/Kristian Wilson, Nintendo Inc, 1989

Quote from ares6

Quote from lambchopsil

Keep this a serious and intelligent discussion and then I won't lock this

Well lamb, what is your opinion on this topic?

I don't know enough to deserve an opinion

A just ruler amongst tyrants

Quote from lambchopsil

Quote from ares6

Quote from lambchopsil

Keep this a serious and intelligent discussion and then I won't lock this

Well lamb, what is your opinion on this topic?

I don't know enough to deserve an opinion

🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 >:-( >:-( >:-( >:-( >:-( So then how can you tell if we aren't just making stuff up as we go along. Why today I heard that the president of the country ficklesickelsiticbob is launching an attack against country of plotieyeshtulioho for the use of child labor.

Russian is using the old tactics again. They are just showing the world they still got it

[color=green]Life, what would it be without so much wrongs and rights?
[/color]

[color=red]Star Trek XI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZiR-NETDr0[/color]

My position on the events:

Georgia started it, maybe thinking Russia wouldn't respond because they have America as an Ally. Then when Russia do respond, invade Georgia, they cry foul. "Oh you weren't meant to do that you were meant to be too afraid to respond because we have America on out side". I have no pity for Georgia at all... They were the initial aggressors, imo they are responsible for starting the chain of events and shouldn't cry when the start losing... 🙄 Also I really don't like how they choose the day of the Olympics to start their little war... 😔

Quote from RexIX

So you think that war is the best solution to all problems? Do you thunk we really live in middle ages when the best diplomacy was war? There are more efective ways how to make a country act accordingly to the treaties it has signed.

Odd Geogria was the first to choose war to solve their problem 🙄

Quote from RexIX

Talking about war crimes do you know that russians together with osetians are looting georgian villiges and cities right now?

Looting != War Crime 🤣

Quote from RexIX

Well I understand that for non-specialist people it's a pretty hard make out the difference between nuclear missiles that are battle ready and targeted precisly on one coutry, and anti-missile shield, that are used against incoming missile attacks. If russians are not planning to attack Europe I can't understand what's their problem.

You get more then just defence with missile defence system, they wouldn't get Nukes, thankfully as I wouldn't trust Geogias PM 🤨 But they would get missiles capable of hitting Russian cities.

Quote from Rob1988

My position on the events:

Georgia started it, maybe thinking Russia wouldn't respond because they have America as an Ally. Then when Russia do respond, invade Georgia, they cry foul. "Oh you weren't meant to do that you were meant to be too afraid to respond because we have America on out side". I have no pity for Georgia at all... They were the initial aggressors, imo they are responsible for starting the chain of events and shouldn't cry when the start losing... 🙄 Also I really don't like how they choose the day of the Olympics to start their little war... 😔

Quote from RexIX

So you think that war is the best solution to all problems? Do you thunk we really live in middle ages when the best diplomacy was war? There are more efective ways how to make a country act accordingly to the treaties it has signed.

Odd Geogria was the first to choose war to solve their problem 🙄

Quote from RexIX

Talking about war crimes do you know that russians together with osetians are looting georgian villiges and cities right now?

Looting != War Crime 🤣

Quote from RexIX

Well I understand that for non-specialist people it's a pretty hard make out the difference between nuclear missiles that are battle ready and targeted precisly on one coutry, and anti-missile shield, that are used against incoming missile attacks. If russians are not planning to attack Europe I can't understand what's their problem.

You get more then just defence with missile defence system, they wouldn't get Nukes, thankfully as I wouldn't trust Geogias PM 🤨 But they would get missiles capable of hitting Russian cities.

I agree with Rob on all points except for the missile shield. The reason why Russia is against any sort of anti-ballistic missile shield being erected... Is related to the classic saying, "The best offense is a good defense." If the US/European countries were able to be entirely protected from any sort of nuclear device, then they would be less concerned about using them themselves since they would not have to worry as much about reciprocal annihilation (Assuming that enough nukes were not fired to create a worldwide nuclear winter.)

In response to Rex's comment on war crimes... Well sir, that has to be the least educated statement I have ever heard. You really need to read the Geneva Conventions. That will give you a list of everything considered a war crime by those who signed.

If I recall from my reading on the current conflict... neither of the countries have actually committed war crimes. Georgia was bombing a breakaway republic... Including hospitals and other civilian structures... Without any concern for the inhabitants... I believe the issue is that it is only considered acceptable to prevent a rebellion through military presence. At least that's how Russia has done it over the years, and while being hypocritical - it's still better than simply blowing everything up.

[quote=RexIX]

Yeah your Government fell right into Russia's trap, Georgia was still the first to invade, Russia responded

So you think that war is the best solution to all problems? Do you thunk we really live in middle ages when the best diplomacy was war? There are more efective ways how to make a country act accordingly to the treaties it has signed.

reading the news the last few years war has been the favored solution for problmes between countries from somalia to europe to caucasus, In south america it was simply putting tanks on the border. Maybe it is the modern man that favores war, everything must go fast, broadband internet, faster cars, airtravel instead of trains etc.. Diplomacy takes too much time and effort it's easier to bomb the other side to submission. Sad I know but that's the way it is.

Before russians intervened, Ositians said that 100 people had died, georgians said that about ten. But then the great russian saviors came and now the number accoding to russian sources is over 2000 in Ositia and hundreds of dead civilians from russian bombing of georgian cities.
Talking about war crimes do you know that russians together with osetians are looting georgian villiges and cities right now?

Both sides use propaganda To get international support nad justification for their actions. war and propaganda walk hand in hand.

Geogia bombed a hospital in tskhinvali and both russia and georgia targeted civilian infrastructure. Crimes from both sides and they should be put infront of the ICC but that's hardly to happen.

Well I understand that for non-specialist people it's a pretty hard make out the difference between nuclear missiles that are battle ready and targeted precisly on one coutry, and anti-missile shield, that are used against incoming missile attacks. If russians are not planning to attack Europe I can't understand what's their problem.

Any idea why the US rejected the idea of placing those missiles on the russian radar base in azerbajdzan as Russia suggested? A peacefull solution unlike the ones placed in eastern europe.

Georgia started it, maybe thinking Russia wouldn't respond because they have America as an Ally.

Considering that americans have no reason to help them (there are no treaties that would gurantee it). And georgians when they fought with russians didn't ask for military help. They started doing it only when russians started invading Georgia itself, what's not part of a duty of a peacekeer (after all they are peacekeepers not peacemakers).

Also I really don't like how they choose the day of the Olympics to start their little war

Georgians started little war, so russians decided to act identicaly and start a war with georgians.

Looting != War Crime

ROFL yeah that's so funny, just imagine those stupid international diplomats put this BS even in the conventions and many countries signed it.
With the enactment of the Hague Convention of 1907 and the Geneva Convention of 1949, it is a crime to take or destroy real or personal property during an occupation unless it is "absolutely necessary".
Like common nazis looted all the European museums lawfully. That's really so funny pilliging and looting - a war crime ha ha ha.
It seems that you irish really have some weird traditions if you consider it to be a good thing to loot.

But they would get missiles capable of hitting Russian cities.

Well I didn't know that we are going to war with russia. Good thing that you told me that, now I really know that it is a bad thing.

P.S. You still haven't answered why peacefull dealing with georgian invasions is worse then war? Or is it that you like so much people die? If russians hadn't attacked there wouldn't be so many casualities.

Any idea why the US rejected the idea of placing those missiles on the russian radar base in azerbajdzan as Russia suggested?

Russians just attacked Georgia that has close ties with USA. More questions why not forming a closer ties with russia?

"Computer games don't affect kids....
I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music."
/Kristian Wilson, Nintendo Inc, 1989

Quote from RexIX

P.S. You still haven't answered** why peacefull dealing with georgian invasions is worse then war?**

I lol'd so fucking hard at this, it's alright that Georgia invade South Ossetia but if Russia wants to help it's citizens it has to do it diplomatically.. nice double standard... it's alright for Georgia to start war/invade but when Russia do it, it's wrong 🙄

Also since you keep bringing up Nazi/Hitler comparisons I have one of my own. Germany invade Sudetenland claim they have legitimate ties with the area. (Thats you invading Ossteia). Then Chamberlain takes the diplomatic course and ends up allowing Hitler to take over the area.(This is what you want Russia to do)....

I am not going to bother arguing with you anymore, there is no point debating with someone who is involved and can't step back from the situation and see things objectively... 😔

I lol'd so fucking hard at this, it's alright that Georgia invade South Ossetia but if Russia wants to help it's citizens it has to do it diplomatically.. nice double standard... it's alright for Georgia to start war/invade but when Russia do it, it's wrong

That's Ok I also lol'd at how you pretend to to understand everything, while in reality you don't know even the basics of the conflict.
But you know I have a shitty memory and my eyes are bad so could you do one last service for me before I end this discusions with you. Quote the place were I say that it's ok that Georgia invaded Ositia.

I have one of my own. Germany invade Sudetenland claim they have legitimate ties with the area

Well if we speak about this special case then you should have mentioned that the "legitimate ties" that Hitler named were 3mil germans that lived there. That reminds me smth. very much announcing that in a region are living people that belong to their country so they have the rights to protect them (that's russia for you).

who is involved and can't step back from the situation and see things objectively

And it's nice that you can do just that. Why don't you become their meditator with your supreme knoledge about the history of conflict and what's happening there, you will surely be able tobe objective. Not even talking about the fact that you know what a war crime is and what is not.

"Computer games don't affect kids....
I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music."
/Kristian Wilson, Nintendo Inc, 1989

Any idea why the US rejected the idea of placing those missiles on the russian radar base in azerbajdzan as Russia suggested?

Russians just attacked Georgia that has close ties with USA. More questions why not forming a closer ties with russia?[/quote]

Well that offer was made way before this conflicted errupted. So there is a possibility that USA rejeceted the offer simply because it was made by the Russians.

P.S. You still haven't answered why peacefull dealing with georgian invasions is worse then war? Or is it that you like so much people die? If russians hadn't attacked there wouldn't be so many casualities.

That there would not have been so many casualties is pure speculations Georgia attacked South Ossetia and were out for blood. Most likely Russia prevented South Ossetia from being ethnicly cleansed of Ossetians.

In the end Georgia made a gamble that it could pull this trough under the openings of the olympic games but failed. And that its western "allies" would stop Russia from intervening also that failed. Saakasvili better not gamble anymorew because lady luck doesn't favour him.

Quote from RexIX

I lol'd so fucking hard at this, it's alright that Georgia invade South Ossetia but if Russia wants to help it's citizens it has to do it diplomatically.. nice double standard... it's alright for Georgia to start war/invade but when Russia do it, it's wrong

That's Ok I also lol'd at how you pretend to to understand everything, while in reality you don't know even the basics of the conflict.
But you know I have a shitty memory and my eyes are bad so could you do one last service for me before I end this discusions with you. Quote the place were I say that it's ok that Georgia invaded Ositia.

I have one of my own. Germany invade Sudetenland claim they have legitimate ties with the area

Well if we speak about this special case then you should have mentioned that the "legitimate ties" that Hitler named were 3mil germans that lived there. That reminds me smth. very much announcing that in a region are living people that belong to their country so they have the rights to protect them (that's russia for you).

who is involved and can't step back from the situation and see things objectively

And it's nice that you can do just that. Why don't you become their meditator with your supreme knoledge about the history of conflict and what's happening there, you will surely be able tobe objective. Not even talking about the fact that you know what a war crime is and what is not.

Okay guys, I know political gets you "excited" but that's no excuse to start insulting each other. We are all entitled to our own opinion. But I have to agree with Rob. I believe in this world, we are still very much uncivilized and power needs to be demonstrated through brutal force to reclaim peace once a while. And this is the moment for Russia to demonstrate it.

[color=green]Life, what would it be without so much wrongs and rights?
[/color]

[color=red]Star Trek XI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZiR-NETDr0[/color]

Since you kindly asked me to respond I will <3

Quote from RexIX

That's Ok I also lol'd at how you pretend to to understand everything, while in reality you don't know even the basics of the conflict.
But you know I have a shitty memory and my eyes are bad so could you do one last service for me before I end this discusions with you. Quote the place were I say that it's ok that Georgia invaded Ositia.

You have never said... but you have never said it was wrong of Georgia to invade and your general opinion of the situation suggests you were pro-invasion. So do you think Georgia was wrong to invade? Do you think Georgia was justified in turning the capital of South Ossetia to rubble? etc.

Quote from RexIX

Well if we speak about this special case then you should have mentioned that the "legitimate ties" that Hitler named were 3mil germans that lived there. That reminds me smth. very much announcing that in a region are living people that belong to their country so they have the rights to protect them (that's russia for you).

That would be a great comparison if Georgia wasn't the initial aggressor... and when I am talking about aggression I am choosing to forget the shelling back and forth between Georgia & South Osettia... As that was both sides.

Quote from RexIX

And it's nice that you can do just that. Why don't you become their meditator with your supreme knoledge about the history of conflict and what's happening there, you will surely be able tobe objective.

All I have to say is fuck history... generally it's people holding past-grudges that prevent peace and progress... So a mediator should only deal with the current events i.e. the invasion, retaliation by Russia etc.

I have to say I really hate it when someone starts a fight and cries so much when they get a bloody nose from it -_-