Quote from Vilde0806
Quote from John21
You do realise that all your stats are not 100%(no stats are) which means that even though the majority of women are like that, there is that minority that isn't so then 16% of spouse abuse victims are women. 4% of men killed by intimate partner and so on, and what if the person you are calling disgusting is talking about this minority??
The thing is he wasn't talking about a minority. The way he worded himself made it seem like he was speaking about relationships in general. If he had made a comment that clearly stated that he was talking about male abuse victims I wouldn't have had a problem.
Quote from John21
Your stats and all are very much spot on and I like your method of argument but your last statement was as emotional as the statement alidan made which is that being a man makes you extremely privileged. Maybe things run differently in your country but in my country being a man doesn't make you privileged at all so no it is not a fact.
The fact is that there is not a single country in the world that has full equality. Women are still payed far less, abused more etc. than men, even in some of the most developed countries in the world. The last comment is not emotional it is a fact. Just like being white and straight will also make you more priviliged than someone who is black and/or gay.
That doesn't mean that a black lesbian woman can't be sucsessfull(or is by default a victim), but it does mean that she is way more likely to meet difiiculties based solely on the fact that she is a woman, that she is gay or that she is black. So, yes, in our society being a man makes you priviliged.
Quote from John21
Also you said that violence is not acceptable but fact is women do use violence, ever heard of a slap?? A lot of men get that sometimes lol though it doesn't hurt or anything but still it is violence but still accepted in society as being normal however in society if a man slapped a woman or hit her its not acceptable at all by society. When women get pissed, they talk about your darkest secrets, your fears, your primary weaknesses, lol like a psychological attack which you think is less harmful than a physical one but its not, attacking a personz core weaknesses usually does make the person angry its human nature, men can't do that they are not very good at it and they tend to respond with fists where the damage is observable and just not acceptable and yes i agree with you violence is not an option in relationships but neither is emotional bullying to that extent.That is the point that alidan is trying to make.
When I said acceptable, I meant what I personally find okay, not what is okay by societies standars. I, personally find it completely unaccaptanle for ANYONE to hit their spouses. Male or female. Mental abuse is also not okay, BUT you talk about mental abuse and physical abuse as if they're completly separate. In wich they're not. Physical abuse is extremely mentally damaging and are almost always accompanied by mental abuse such as slurs and cruelty. Abusing someone you're supposed to care for is forcing them to submit both mentally AND physically. So, yes, Pyhsical abuse is more severe in most cases.
Quote from John21
Before you tell other people to stop victimizing their own gender maybe you should stop victimizing yours and put out an objective opinion(which you did with your stats) rather than a subjective one( your last statement).
Like I said before; saying that men are priviliged is not a subjective opinion. It's an objective one. It's a fact. I'm going to quote;
"Pointing out that men are privileged in no way denies that sometimes bad things happen to men.
In the end, however, it is men and not women who make the most money; men and not women who dominate the government and the corporate boards; men and not women who dominate virtually all of the most powerful positions of society. And it is women and not men who suffer the most from intimate violence and rape; who are the most likely to be poor; who are, on the whole, given the short end of patriarchy’s stick. As Marilyn Frye has argued, while men are harmed by patriarchy, women are oppressed by it.
.. pointing out problems is not the same as perpetuating them. It is not a “victimizing” position to acknowledge that injustice exists; on the contrary, without that acknowledgement it isn’t possible to fight injustice".
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As for the original question; yes I think it is possible to achieve an equal relationship. It's probably hard, but I don't want to think it's not possible.
Sorry am not very good with the whole separating the quotes and answering them separately
. Anyways first of all about the stats and the minority etc. The problem with stats is that it runs a huge risk of "volunteer bias" plus it is usually 4-5 years in the past the most complete ones that is. This means that men are less likely to report cases of violence, it is behaviourally appropriate for women to report these cases, and they are encouraged by society to do so. However for men, take for example domestiv violence, I mean which man with any pride would like to admit that they get beaten by their wives or pscholigacally tortured by their wives, we men see that as the man being "whipped" and it is not behaviourally appropriate. When saying behaviourally appropriate i mean what society sees as appropriate behaviour, nevertheless still men would be in the minority probably but cases would go up for men if this volunteer bias is eliminated. I am unable to argue your case about the world not having full equality, because that is a matter of perception and you certainly have a strong perception that this is true so I am not going to bother.
About the mental abuse and the physical one, I separated it because women tend to resort to the mental part when arguing with their partner because she knows that she is not going to be able to beat the **** out of their man so physical abuse then becomes a separate matter. Mental problems and abuse are downplayed a lot in society and just recently depression was accepted as a major problem. The thing with mental one is that it is not observable and what is not observable cannot be campaigned against by society and thus it becomes behaviourally appropriate, however physical abuse is observable and not behaviourally appropriate therefore overplayed. Men can't physically abuse obviously but their buildup is such that comparitively they are not as good as women when it comes to arguments, heated exchange of words and the ability to emotionally abuse. Thus men unable to emotionally abuse to the extent that woman can plus they cannot physically abuse because that is observable and wrong. Also your standards shouldn't even come to this argument, rather society's standards should or else the whole statement of yours becomes subjective.
About the whole men being privileged being an objectve one, the fact that you backed up this apparent fact with quotes just means that it is not. Quotes are subjective because they are spoken by people who have had different experiences in life compared to others.Also there are countries where women do dominate the upper echelons of business and also government. Take for example new zealand where the last primeminister(not this one) was a woman called Helen Clark, or bangladesh where since after 20 years of their independance their primeministers have always been women. Also about sports, thing are changing such as Wimbeldon now pays equally for men and women,. In tennis women have to play only 3 sets max( thats like a max 2 hour game play) whereas men have to play 5 sets(5-6 hours max) but they both get paid the same. It was taken into account that women are less phsically sound than women and thus they had to play less sets and none of the women tennis players objected about this. You can argue about why women should get paid the same when their lkess physical exhaustion on their part. Also the population in general prefer to watch men playing sports than women, atleast that is the case for soccer, cricket and so on. Professional sports is all about the money and the organisers have to find a way to earn and f men's sports are popular obviously they are going to get paid more because their "employees" are getting more money.
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Angel Beats--best anime of the 2010 spring season
