Yeah I saw that too. It's bad. What we need isn't some Animal Fuc.....I mean Animal Lovers, what we need is to contact the administration in China responsible for illegal things like this. PETA, as far as I know, are extremist whose ideal are immature and whose actions are irresponsible and ineffective. They are completely useless.

Quote from a stray child

Their zoos are also horrible, there's just no excuse for this sort of behavior.

[url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-506153/Animals-torn-pieces-lions-baying-crowds-spectator-sport-China-DOESNT-want-see.html[/url]

uhh....I don't think that's trust worthy. There's a lot of lies on the internet. Unless its from a legit source like New York Times.

Besides, I don't think Chinese zoos have enough money to keep feeding lions live sheep.....I mean they are pretty poor and dead meat is so much cheaper than live ones.

If I were to answer why they want to skin the alive because the fur skinned off off the live ones are in better quality. Something about dead cells makes the fur bad.

[color=green]Life, what would it be without so much wrongs and rights?
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[color=red]Star Trek XI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZiR-NETDr0[/color]

Well, here's an ABC news report on it:

[url]http://abcnews.go.com/International/Story?id=4261023&page=1[/url]

Associated Press in Beijing

[url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/dec/24/china.endangeredspecies[/url]

Quote from a stray child

Well, here's an ABC news report on it:

[url]http://abcnews.go.com/International/Story?id=4261023&page=1[/url]

Associated Press in Beijing

[url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/dec/24/china.endangeredspecies[/url]

For the goat feeding to tiger and lions:

Well, it's technically not animal torture. Rather they are treating one specific animal very well. When you put an animal behind bars, you are mis-treating it. But giving it a goat, something reminding of it's nature could be considered an improvement for the tiger. I mean either way goats will be eaten by tigers. This issue is actually different from the issue of animal fur torture. Although they seems similar, the zoo display actually have a positive effect on some
parts.

Now as for other things that happen in the zoo.....hmmmm some are just assumptions and rumours. While others like pocking to provoke does consitute as animal mistreatment

Further on the topic of PETA. You see how peta post the article of animal fur torture, but suggest you to stop buying fur to stop it? Okay, they aren't providing an immediate plan to stop the torture, rather they seem to be using it to support 'their' main goal. which is to stop people from buying furs.

For the ABC article. I find the article to be non-objective. It seem to be an opinion editorial instead of a factual article. As the article seem to use descriptions which shows a stand on the issue.

Oh yeah, by the way, next time you post a disgusting video like that. Put it on the +18 section. I don't think kids want to see animal torture.

[color=green]Life, what would it be without so much wrongs and rights?
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[color=red]Star Trek XI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZiR-NETDr0[/color]

Hmmm... well... being a meat-eater, I'm not sure what my position on this issue is. After all, humans need to eat in order to survive. And well, animals feel pain but so do plants, too(as they've discovered recently).

Yes, it's certainly cruel what humans can do to one another and to animals. But do I have the capacity to feel remorse and compassion? I'm not so sure at all.

About the Daily Mail thing, not too sure about how truthful it is. But if all of it is really true, then it just confirms that humans have a thing for voyeurism and just as we are capable of feeling compassion for ourselves and others, humans are also able to display cruelty against anything that isn't human or which doesn't belong to the same group/identity.

Quote from ahoaho

Didn't read the article, and really don't care. I have no problem with people wearing/making animal skin products.

that's not the point, the point is that people skin the animals, when there still ALIVE!

it's not about winning!
it's about not losing

Quote from loudmouthgirl42

Quote from ahoaho

Didn't read the article, and really don't care. I have no problem with people wearing/making animal skin products.

that's not the point, the point is that people skin the animals, when there still ALIVE!

It saves a lot of time from them.
Also, by killing the animal, they
might damage the fur.

Quote from ares6

PETA, as far as I know, are extremist whose ideal are immature and whose actions are irresponsible and ineffective. They are completely useless.

Well yes, I know that much, but that applies to 99% of all extreme activist groups, the real question is how fanatic are their core members (like say, how willing are they to walk into a secure government area where they are liable to be shot on site, simply to prove a point?)

Oh and on that zoo . . . not only do I agree the article is questionable . . what the hells wrong with what they are doing? Your telling me you never thought it was cool watching predatory animals eat when you were younger (remember that snake that you may or may not have had in your class at one point), so whats so twisted about watching the lions eat? As for the animals (goats chickens w/e) . . I'm hoping I don't have to tell you lions are not vegetarian. They eat meat, and in the wild, guess what? They kill other animals to eat. It's not like they wouldn't get the same bloody animal's meat if it had been killed before.

Oh and ares6 I remember hearing something about live animals being better to skin than dead ones before, but its a vauge memory at best, and I cant seem to find any info on it only "God save the poor cats!!!". Your probably right since there seems to be more of this live animal skinning than I thought, in which case I'm not really against it (probably has something to do with morons ****ing up the fur pre skinning, you'd be surprised how easy it is to degrade the value of that stuff).

Double dino to micro crimp!!!

Quote from loudmouthgirl42

Quote from ahoaho

Didn't read the article, and really don't care. I have no problem with people wearing/making animal skin products.

that's not the point, the point is that people skin the animals, when there still ALIVE!

Still don't care. Still not going to read the article. Especially if it's from peta.

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Quote from ahoaho

Still don't care. Still not going to read the article. Especially if it's from peta.

despite their name PETA is also guilty of killing animals

I just read that link and...oh well. PETA is exaggerating again, but things like this happen, exaggerated or not.
I agree with kashi on this, I can stand seeing human torture fairly well, but when it comes to animals I get somewhere between sick and furious.
This just shows how bad humans have evolved, we're the only beings that harm other animals for other reasons except food, self-defense or reproduction.

I don't have anything against giving goats as food to a lion, because the same thing would've happened in nature. I'm not explaining further, as I agree completely with ares6 on this subject.

Meat is ok (because no matter what vegetarians say, you can NOT survive only on vegetables for large periods of time, humans are still omnivores), killing animals with rabies is ok (because it's a real threat to humans that can't be avoided with doggy-doggy come here), some leather and fur here and there used for basic clothing is ok, but we've taken the level of fur used as a wrapping for cavemen to ridiculous levels.

It's all an industry based on an obsession with quality that makes people break all barriers of humanity and common sense in the search for "the finest fur". I for one if I had a fur coat, I'd feel VERY uncomfortable knowing that I'm wearing the fur that was taken off living creatures. Or even worse, have a full wardrobe of furs I'm most likely wear only ten times maximum before winter passes, and "they're out of style".

Someone tell me, what's the use? We can do synthetic furs now, so it's not the problem of "we don't have anything to dress with".
I've asked a few people why do they have so many fur coats and why are they so keen on getting natural ones, and you'd be amazed with what BS they come up with.

^I'm sure you wear leather, though. That's also animal skin.

Once again, people will do what they do, and there is little we can do to stop them. If you want to be disgusted, feel free, but I wouldn't condone a person or organization from a foreign country going in and stopping these people from doing what they do to survive. All things come around in the end, and if what they are doing is truly evil, they will get theirs in the end. I have enough to worry about without adding Chinese Fur producers to the list.

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Oh, the goat feedings weren't what bothered me, it was the abuse towards tortoises and other things that took place. The lion feedings were just the focus of those articles...

Quote from a stray child

Oh, the goat feedings weren't what bothered me, it was the abuse towards tortoises and other things that took place. The lion feedings were just the focus of those articles...

-sigh- again, this issue have to be resolved in the country itself. Also, China is a second world country. Some of its practices are still unrefined. Besides, you don't think China's the only country to have zoos messing with animals do you? I seem to also remember not one of you Enthusiasts ever mentioning about human torture in today's society and the mis-treatment of POWs. Especially the Iraq war prisoner incident. Personally, I'm more concerned about people and the world and our country.

[color=green]Life, what would it be without so much wrongs and rights?
[/color]

[color=red]Star Trek XI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZiR-NETDr0[/color]

Quote from ahoaho

^I'm sure you wear leather, though. That's also animal skin.

Once again, people will do what they do, and there is little we can do to stop them. If you want to be disgusted, feel free, but I wouldn't condone a person or organization from a foreign country going in and stopping these people from doing what they do to survive. All things come around in the end, and if what they are doing is truly evil, they will get theirs in the end. I have enough to worry about without adding Chinese Fur producers to the list.

Actually the vast majority of leather that we use are by-products of the meat, dairy or wool industries, and even then the cost for the skins constitute 50% or more of the total cost of making a piece of leather, and obviously the animal is killed before skinning. Not really the same as killing a live animal for the sole purpose of wearing its fur.

Double dino to micro crimp!!!

Quote from Nins_Leprechaun

Quote from ahoaho

^I'm sure you wear leather, though. That's also animal skin.

Once again, people will do what they do, and there is little we can do to stop them. If you want to be disgusted, feel free, but I wouldn't condone a person or organization from a foreign country going in and stopping these people from doing what they do to survive. All things come around in the end, and if what they are doing is truly evil, they will get theirs in the end. I have enough to worry about without adding Chinese Fur producers to the list.

Actually the vast majority of leather that we use are by-products of the meat, dairy or wool industries, and even then the cost for the skins constitute 50% or more of the total cost of making a piece of leather, and obviously the animal is killed before skinning. Not really the same as killing a live animal for the sole purpose of wearing its fur.

You are killing an animal and using it's skin for adornment, clothing, and protective purposes. How is that any different than killing an animal and using it's fur for adornment, clothing, and/or protective purposes?

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