When I said "we", I meant humanity doing stuff, in general.

Uuuh, when you said arguably higher quality, to me that meant that you could give proof that would hold water. Not some beliefs.

Again, there's no proof that the buyers wouldn't buy them if they knew they were skinned dead. It's not like it's advertised or labeled: skinned alive, higher quality.

Is it? I'm not sure, but I haven't heard/seen any.

Quote from amaranthine

When I said "we", I meant humanity doing stuff, in general.

Uuuh, when you said arguably higher quality, to me that meant that you could give proof that would hold water. Not some beliefs.

Again, there's no proof that the buyers wouldn't buy them if they knew they were skinned dead. It's not like it's advertised or labeled: skinned alive, higher quality.

Is it? I'm not sure, but I haven't heard/seen any.

Like I said, quality is subjective. If a buyer says it's higher quality, it is higher quality. Period. There is no way to prove that it is higher quality, other than asking the buyer.

And furs are bought and sold the same way they have been for centuries. An independent buyer will go directly to the producer and purchase the furs. Then, the buyer sells the furs to clothing boutiques/manufactures at a marked up price. If the buyer believes that these furs are higher quality, then they can sell them for a higher price.

Furthermore, it could also be argued that live skinning is a cheaper means of production. It costs less to kill an animal this way, as opposed to shooting it. The only other way to kill it at such a low nominal cost would be to bash it's head in with a hammer.

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Like I said as well, I haven't heard/read of any buyer that would prefer it that way and you can't provide any proof. Not that I'm asking, I tried to seach for it, although halfheartedly... and I couldn't find any.

Hm, neither of us would agree with each other's point, so I guess this all pointless.

I think that bashing their heads with a hammer would still be easier than holding a struggling animal while skinning them (not that I think it would be a better or even serious solution... well, maybe since at least it would be a fast death).

Quote from amaranthine

Like I said as well, I haven't heard/read of any buyer that would prefer it that way and you can't provide any proof. Not that I'm asking, I tried to seach for it, although halfheartedly... and I couldn't find any.

Hm, neither of us would agree with each other's point, so I guess this all pointless.

I think that bashing their heads with a hammer would still be easier than holding a struggling animal while skinning them (not that I think it would be a better or even serious solution... well, maybe since at least it would be a fast death).

Actually, I'm not arguing against your point, per se, but more along the lines of the spirit of your point. I am not a proponent nor a detractor of these practices, but I don't believe that I have any right to stop these people from doing what they do for a living, even if I don't like what they do.

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I don't think I have any rights either, except that of a consumer and stating that I would never buy those fur. But I still want them to change their ways into something that is at least more humane.

It's not like we even need real fur these days and it's not like they can't get other jobs >.< I'm idealistic, I know. I can't help but hate to see stuff like that.

Quote from amaranthine

I don't think I have any rights either, except that of a consumer and stating that I would never buy those fur. But I still want them to change their ways into something that is at least more humane.

It's not like we even need real fur these days and it's not like they can't get other jobs >.< I'm idealistic, I know. I can't help but hate to see stuff like that.

Come on, they live in China, which is virtually a third world country. Would you stop doing a job if you didn't know with any certainty that you could replace your income?

And as far as needing real fur, I already put a hole in that argument.

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I never said they should stop it, as of right now. I lived in a country poorer than China, I think I know how much people need stable jobs. Ideally speaking, I don't want them to continue doing it, but that they should change their skinning process.

I didn't read the whole thread. Not in the mood to either.

Quote from dacbiet

@HeavennevaeH using synthetics is trading in one problem for another.

@ares6 some ppl already stated they could stand watching humans being tortured. while i do respect ur view on this issue, we live in a country where the constitution rules above all and it does condone torture. the world is a Fcked up place we lucky to live in a country where ppl give a damn about these issues.

-sigh- just because some people could stand it doesn't mean we can cover up the issue. The problem is deep within the minds of people. We need to take out that infected part before we can do anything else. Meaning we have to save ourselves before we can save animals. We have to solve the more important issues here. If another World War appears and warheads war used, then there won't be anymore animals left for you to save. Yes, the world is screwed up, but that doesn't mean I'm going to stand there and watch or join in with the insane riots. I am going to try to make the world a better place.

[color=green]Life, what would it be without so much wrongs and rights?
[/color]

[color=red]Star Trek XI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZiR-NETDr0[/color]

Quote from thezombieking

Quote from mirahsan2

There's a lot of bs still continuing in our world, we gotta do something...but what!? Any ideas anybody!

Nothing can be done.

unless your going to go and slaughter all of the people that do that.

and all the other stupid people trying to make a living for themselves and their family.

Yea especially Since it's in China. There still a communist nation, which in my mind means that morals and ethics aren't that important. All we can do is not buy those furs.

Quote from ares6

-sigh- just because some people could stand it doesn't mean we can cover up the issue. The problem is deep within the minds of people. We need to take out that infected part before we can do anything else. Meaning we have to save ourselves before we can save animals. We have to solve the more important issues here. If another World War appears and warheads war used, then there won't be anymore animals left for you to save. Yes, the world is screwed up, but that doesn't mean I'm going to stand there and watch or join in with the insane riots. I am going to try to make the world a better place.

Good luck

[color=#ff0000]"“That's the difference between me and the rest of the world!
Happiness isn't good enough for me! I demand euphoria!” "[/color]

Thanks, first we have to modify the way people think. Reinstall moral into them. First we stop violence against our own species, only then can we stop violence to animals

[color=green]Life, what would it be without so much wrongs and rights?
[/color]

[color=red]Star Trek XI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZiR-NETDr0[/color]

Quote from ares6

Thanks, first we have to modify the way people think. Reinstall moral into them. First we stop violence against our own species, only then can we stop violence to animals

That's actually very true.

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