A few days ago, I made a post about "God's existence". But people just keep trailing off to morality issues. SO, I'm making a separate one for morality alone. The topic concerning morality are:

-Is morality something made up by man? In other world, morality depends on people's point of view.
-Is morality set by a higher power or something? In other words, is it correct 100 percent no matter what kind of point of view you have?
-What is morality?
-Contradictionary morality issues, pro/con

Beware: Morality is a vast topic.

We all know you-know-who gets pretty angry about off topics, so those who trailed off in the God Existence section can come here to debate.

Gay book discussion thread

Quote from you_no_see_me_

this is not about cannibalism...please get back on topic

Quote from Toto

I think it is exactly the topic. I see nothing wrong.

Morality, huh? I believe that there are different definitions of "moral correctness."

1. An individual's morality

2. A society's morality

3. An individual's morality is best summed up to be "I shall do unto others as I wish them to do unto me."

4. A society's morals specifies which are permissible by stating "I shall do what is best for the greater good of my society."

And more often than not, people start arguing about which one could be better... and thus, they have a mix which leans more heavily on one than the other.

So, this may be more of a debate about political view: is my personal freedom (choosing actions which benefit you more than others) better than the society's demand for its wellbeing (choosing actions that may hurt you but help your society).

Either extreme ends up in total chaos: anarchy versus communism.

So, my mix would be about 60% (arbitrary percentage) individual morals and 40% society's morals. Thus, I don't agree with many of the "laws" that society comes up with... but feel I have some sort of responsibility to obey them. (Such as taxes, for example.)

-Max

Quote from Savantsage

-Is morality something made up by man? In other world, morality depends on people's point of view.
-Is morality set by a higher power or something? In other words, is it correct 100 percent no matter what kind of point of view you have?
-What is morality?
-Contradictionary morality issues, pro/con

1. I don't believe morality ( a differentiation between "good" and "evil" ) is an invention of man, but rather a concept that can be recognized by reaching a certain level of awareness or intellect. (most humans have the intellectual capacity to grasp morality, while most other animals don't- as far as we can tell 😉

2. I guess you could categorize morality in ever growing "spheres of influence" from a personal level, to familial, societal, species,.... universal. When I think of universal morality, or the universal good- I think of God.

3. I think the more an individual can understand (wisdom?) the expanding "spheres of influence" the more their capacity for making moral choices and responsibility for them increases. A small child doesn't have the capacity to understand the consequences of playing with matches, but a intellectually sound adult should.

The problem is when a person reaches an understanding of a higher level of morality, but decides to act contrary to it for their own personal gain.

I think morality in essence underlies one train of thought.

I treat people the way i want to be treated.

thats pretty much it,

example, i shouldn't lie, because i don't like it when people lie to me.

i agree.
the only good approach is indeed the individual one. anything cultural implied is bogus.

edit: wtf i actually use the word bogus.. ?!? im weird.

why not use the word bogus? It's great, reminds me of Bill and Ted

I am a great believer in that ethics and morals are relative.

Is it wrong to steal?
Is it wrong to steal, to feed your child?
Is it wrong to steal, from someone evil? (and who defines evil?)
Is it wrong to steal, from someone who stole?
Is it wrong to steal, from someone who has a lot?

And so on ...

Basically, I think that what is morally right or wrong depends on the situation, and each situation is different. The best we can do is to approach the situation with laws that define what is usually right and wrong, and work from there.

Quote from Aebriol

I am a great believer in that ethics and morals are relative.

Is it wrong to steal?
Is it wrong to steal, to feed your child?
Is it wrong to steal, from someone evil? (and who defines evil?)
Is it wrong to steal, from someone who stole?
Is it wrong to steal, from someone who has a lot?

And so on ...

Basically, I think that what is morally right or wrong depends on the situation, and each situation is different. The best we can do is to approach the situation with laws that define what is usually right and wrong, and work from there.

ah you mean its a matter of convenience? morality only exist when it suits an individual? 😕

| One Punch Man | Noblesse | Nanatsu no Taizai | Gun x Clover |

ah you mean its a matter of convenience? morality only exist when it suits an individual? confused

I think he meant more, that there are no iron rules of morality, instead everything is always dependent on the factors surrounding the descision to be made.

if thats the case then really there is no moral standard? since each situation would have various factors associated with it 😐

| One Punch Man | Noblesse | Nanatsu no Taizai | Gun x Clover |

Ok....how about this: To survive, we killed millions of other living things. We feast on them and make them into food. We use their components and make them into fur coats and soap.

[color=green]Life, what would it be without so much wrongs and rights?
[/color]

[color=red]Star Trek XI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZiR-NETDr0[/color]

EH? Animals that's our biggest moral dilemma? Try millions of people being murdered and raped by their own countymen in africa or how about the US's foreign policies those are two extremely sick and evil things right there. Also what about all the atrocities in iraq?? Yes tons of innocent people tortured and killed and for what? 😀

Quote from luisalirio84

EH? Animals that's our biggest moral dilemma? Try millions of people being murdered and raped by their own countymen in africa or how about the US's foreign policies those are two extremely sick and evil things right there. Also what about all the atrocities in iraq?? Yes tons of innocent people tortured and killed and for what? 😀

Frankly......the less human we have on Earth, the more peace we will gain.

Don't kill me now, I'm just hypothetically speaking. 😐

[color=green]Life, what would it be without so much wrongs and rights?
[/color]

[color=red]Star Trek XI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZiR-NETDr0[/color]

Probably but only if we kill the bad ones. Cause you could end up with just the evil ones left 🙂 What you are talking about is I guess like a type of cleansing. Btw nature has it's own way of cleansing the species and evolving it's called Aids, Global Warming Etc.

Quote from Sakuya

if thats the case then really there is no moral standard? since each situation would have various factors associated with it 😐

If you meant all the thievery examples, well that's the gray area isn't it?

I think everyone can agree that murdering is NOT "right". The matter of murdering for revenge and such is gray, but in the end I think 99% of the time people would say that person A that killed person B has to go to jail for murdering person B. Self-defence can be argued but I think usually people would say unless a person's a few seconds away from being between a rock and a hard place.

And isn't this site and and maybe Wikipedia is a display of a sense of moral standards? If everyone were all vandals and put mis-information all over, I think the site would have been gone.

And when a person takes pictures, I believe if the photo is taken in a public place on the streets and there isn't something perverted going on (like an old man hiding a camera in his shoe and putting it under woman's skirts), it might not be morally "right", but legally one can't get in trouble for it.

I'm not completely sure if one is allowed to take photos of stores, although I know in France/Paris, fashion photos are owned by the designer of the clothing in in the photo and not the photographer but that is different in the USA. Making an exact copy of an outfit goes into copyright law, but if the outfit is very slightly altered, I think for fashion it becomes a matter of judgement even with maybe only a line of stitching being the difference between the original and and the "copy".

Oh yes, and with celebrities being photographed, the morality of the paparazzi is being questioned (well, this was happening after Diana's death since that was a factor in her death). But then maybe that "morality" is encouraged when a woman buys a magazine that has photos of celebrities at red carpet events, parties that the photographers must have been invited to (otherwise the photos would be all blurry from being taken from a helicopter or far away), and ones with them grocery shopping. Hmm, I guess the matter of invading their privacy and stalking them (although that's more the paparazzi than the public as a whole) is the issue.

Oh, and to Savantsage, isn't it a question of morality when courteous comes into place? I can't help but think of that since when you mentioned "We all know you-know-who gets pretty angry about off topics," you were indirectly referring to...lambchopsil. But I think Manick reminds us to do that too (it is part of the rules, and it is there for a reason even if we don't love it 100% all the time when it's not in our corner), but maybe not as often maybe (I know I haven't read every post in the forum so I have no number count to back me up but I know Manick did want people to go back on topic for the What type of people read manga? and What's your greatest wish to accompolish? And those probably aren't exact titles ^^U).

I guess this reminds me of when I was talking somewhere else and I was complaining about something (but others had commented about it too, maybe not as much or as strongly, but they did), and so a person commented "A certain someone has a stick stuck up a certain place". There were other people there but I can't remember why but I was certain the person meant me. It probably fell into that gray area of something that the person could have been banned for (people have been banned for spamming, although he/she gets a warning and then a ban probably if they ignore it), although the moderator at the time did agree that the comment was rude. The person when typed it probably thought it was "morally" okay to insult me this way, and might have worded it to prevent being banned (for abusing another user).

And feel I need to mention this, few weeks ago I watched a Dateline story where this woman sued the local police for slander because she got sexually assaulted, she reported it to them of course, and then they accussed her of lying that she had been assaulted based on no evidence. Unless that she left her house with her kids to call the police (because her phone line had been cut) counts, but at least to me it was totally circumstancial. The police officer that helped her case realized that the officers that had done that case didn't do things like cut off the area and question the witnesses. So there is a "moral" issue of suing the police since they aren't suppose to screw up (or at least we hope since they are suppose to be one of the 'defenders of justice' because I don't believe lawyers are seen that way with all the jokes such as "What's the difference between a prostitute and a lawyer?" "A prostitute stops screwing you after you're dead.") And another "morality" issue was that (I believe that) the police officer testified against the police force, and he admitted that he was given the cold shoulder by his co-workers since they believe that they should protect each other.

And I also heard on one of Oprah's shows that the sons of a robber turned him in when he told them that he robbed banks. It may have been one of those shows of "what would you have done?" since she also covered this woman that testified against her grandpa (and the rest of her family cut ties with her because of that), and this man that discovered that his company or several companies that were pharmaceutical ones, treated doctors to all-expense paid trips with the costs being passed on to the consumers. And does morality completely come up thought up beforehand? Some have deep thought go into them, but some require a quick response and so if it's the latter, one may say that one would or would not do what they did again.

And about the animals that luisalirio84 and ares6 started talking about while I wrote this, well, I know the vegetarians may look at me with evil eyes and say "you're eating dead animal carcass" but I'm not going to give up my meat. Vegetables just aren't enough to fulfill me regarding food or a meal.

[color=#990066]My avatar was Yves Saint Laurent's The Black Evening Dress (with big bow) first shown in 1983, photographed from his 2002 retrospective and final show.[/color] [color=#CC0066]Check out some of his collections for free (pre-2008) HERE[/color] [color=#CC0066]courtesy of FirstView[/color].