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"Related Series" Relation

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16 years ago
Posts: 437

There are some things that have been bugging me for a while.
First, could you please distinguish between the terms "adapted from," "side story," "spin-off," and "alternate story"? In my mind, the differences are kind of vague, so, many times, I'm not sure which to put for the relation tag--I've been picking the tag based on what I think best fits, but I can't be sure that it's the correct one (and there are most likely others with the same problem). So, I would very much appreciate some official definitions, so that I know for sure which one to put.

Second, under the "related series" field for a series, is the relation tag supposed to describe the related series in terms of the displayed series, or the the displayed series in terms of the related series? Let me explain exactly what I mean:
-Situation A: related series in terms of the displayed series:
The tag would be selected so that one could say, "[related series name] is [a prequel/a sequel/a side story/a spin-off/an alternate story] of [displayed series name].
For example, consider BLAME!. BioMega, BLAME! NSE, Blame!², and NOiSE are all sequels of BLAME! (judging by the years listed and the series' descriptions), and Blame Academy! is a spin-off (I think) of BLAME! (Then again, one can also say that it was adapted from BLAME!...). So, when looking at the series profile of BLAME! (that is the displayed series), under the "related series" field, it should read,
"BioMega (Sequel)
Blame Academy! (Spin-off)
BLAME! NSE (Sequel)
Blame!² (Sequel)
NOiSE (Sequel)"
-Situation B: displayed series in terms of the related series:
The tag would be selected so that one could say, "[displayed series name] is [a prequel/a sequel/a side story/a spin-off/an alternate story] of [related series name].
For example, consider BLAME! again. BLAME! is a prequel of BioMega, BLAME! NSE, Blame!², and NOiSE, and BLAME! is the main story (yes, I know that's not a listed choice, just hold on for a second) of Blame Academy!. So, when looking at the series profile of BLAME! (that is the displayed series), under the "related series" field, it should read,
"BioMega (Prequel)
Blame Academy! (Main Story)
BLAME! NSE (Prequel)
Blame!² (Prequel)
NOiSE (Prequel)"
You can see that people are confused about this, because neither is the case for the series in reality (right now, it says,
"BioMega (Prequel)
Blame Academy! (Adapted From)
BLAME! NSE (Sequel)
Blame!² (Sequel)
NOiSE (Prequel)"; it's a mix of both, and therefore it's incorrect due to inconsistency.)
I strongly favor situation A; it makes the most sense, since it is natural to assume that the relation tag is describing the series to which it is attached, and not the displayed (main) series. Either way, it should be stated explicitly somewhere which way ought to be followed, 'cause like I said, people must be confused about it, judging by the mixed up tags that I find much too often.

**Third, I think there should be a "main story" (or something similar) tag. **The absence of a tag such as this has contributed, at least a little, to the confusion I described in my second item. For instance, in addition to the example of BLAME! and Blame Academy!, consider the experience I had with Try! Try! Try! and with Yotsubato! (another, similar case exists with WANTED! (more specifically, Romance Dawn) and One Piece). So on the series profile of Try! Try! Try!, from which Yotsubato! was adapted, I saw "Yotsubato! (Adapted From)" under the related series field. I assumed situation A, since that is the most logical, and so I thought, "Yotsubato! wasn't adapted from Try! Try! Try!; it's the other way around." So I went to fix it, planning to change the tag to "main story" or something similar, but there was no such choice. So I thought maybe things were according to situation B, but if that was the case, what the heck could the tag be for Try! Try! Try! under Yotsubato!'s profile? Couldn't be like situation A, the two can't both be adapted from each other; that's contradictory. But it couldn't be like situation B either; there's no such "main story" choice. Turned out Try! Try! Try! wasn't--and right now still isn't, by the way--listed as a related series on Yotsubato!'s page, most likely because no one knew what to pick for the relation tag. Also, if a person did not bother to think about the contradiction, they might go on thinking things are to be as in situation B, and proceed to enter stuff and change stuff accordingly. And this all leads to things getting more screwed up than they would otherwise be, with some people picking tags according to A, some picking according to B, and others just not knowing what the heck is going on.
Hold up now, I just noticed something: I was checking out the profiles of WANTED! and One Piece, and I noticed that One Piece is listed as a "spin-off" on the profile of WANTED!. At first I thought that that was dumb; who would consider the main story (especially something with dozens of volumes like One Piece) to be a spin-off of a oneshot? But then I thought of something: perhaps the "spin-off" is actually supposed to be used in situations like this. I never would have thought of it if someone hadn't used it as a tag there, but I suppose it's a possibility. I doubt that many will think of it though--one thinks of spin-offs as little things spun off the main story (hence the name 😛 ), not of a main story whose beginning was a oneshot. But, I suppose that, in a certain sense of the term, the main story was "spun off" the little inspiration piece. So anyway, if that is the case, it ought to be stated explicitly, 'cause, as I said, I doubt many people would think of it.
But, that doesn't solve the other problem: Consider BLAME! and Blame Academy! again. Assuming situation A, on BLAME!'s page, under related series, it should say "Blame Academy (Spin-Off)," or possibly even "Blame Academy! (Adapted From)," but then what should it say on Blame Academy!'s page under related series? "BLAME! (Spin-Off/Adapted From/Alternate Story/Side Story)"? Certainly not, none of those make sense. Assuming situation B does not solve the problem: on Blame Academy!'s page, under related series, it should say "BLAME! (Spin-Off)," or possibly even "Blame Academy! (Adapted From)," but then what should it say on BLAME!'s page under related series? "Blame Academy! (Spin-Off/Adapted From/Alternate Story/Side Story)"? Certainly not, none of those make sense either. The only solution I can think of is to add "main story" (or something similar, of course) as a choice.
Thank you for your time and consideration.


... Last edited by lynira 16 years ago
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Post #282129 - Reply To (#282127) by lynira
Post #282129 - Reply To (#282127) by lynira
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16 years ago
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Quote from lynira

So on the series profile of Try! Try! Try!, from which Yotsubato! was adapted, I saw "Yotsubato! (Adapted From)" under the related series field. I assumed situation A, since that is the most logical, and so I thought, "Yotsubato! wasn't adapted from Try! Try! Try!; it's the other way around."

I agree that it needs to be codified, 'cause the Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicles related series field is a disaster area, but I go with relationships being relative to series whose page it is. For this specific case think of it as a sentence
Yotsubato! was adapted from Try! Try! Try! and is therefore a spin off of Try! Try! Try!
So on the Yotsubato! page:
Try! Try! Try! (Adapted From)
and on the Try! Try! Try! page:
Yotsubato! (Spin-Off)


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16 years ago
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First
-Adapted from is Novel to Manga or vice versa
-Spin-Off should be a completely different story with the same setting
-Side-Story should be somewhat like a spin-off, only there should be a connection between the two.
-Alternate Story would probably work the same as adapted from only it's manga to manga because there are instances where a novel may spawn two or more different manga adaptations.

Second
-It's should be related series in terms of displayed series though what counts as prequels and sequels are dependent on the time line of the story not the year they were published.


... Last edited by blakraven66 16 years ago
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16 years ago
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I really don't have time to read all that right now...so if you still got questions that are unanswered, just post them (and hopefully it's not as long as that first post)


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Post #282171 - Reply To (#282153) by blakraven66
Post #282171 - Reply To (#282153) by blakraven66
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Quote from blakraven66

First-Alternate Story would probably work the same as adapted from only it's manga to manga because there are instances where a novel may spawn two or more different manga adaptations

What about just a retelling of the same story? I thought alternate story was the equivalent of AU (alternate universe) so you need the same characters, or plot or similar. All the Densha Otaku's are alternate stories of each other.

I really think adapted from can be extended to the whole one shot->manga situation, 'cause there's really nothing that fits nearly as well. (It's still translating from one type (one-shot) to another (full story)).

-Spin-Off should be a completely different story with the same setting

Or tangential story in a different setting with a character or two from the first story. The Code-Ex manga's a spin-off of the anime 'cause it focuses on one character.

-Side-Story should be somewhat like a spin-off, only there should be a connection between the two.

do TRC and xxxHolic count as side stories to each other? (I feel like the relationship is stronger.) I agree with you on this, kind of: they don't need to really share settings, characters or anything else, just be sort of related to each other.
I dunno, I'm thinking about how 4 (at the least) of OGAWA Yayoi's series (Candy Life, Baby Pop, Kimi wa Pet, Extra Heavy Syrup) are tangentially related to each other, but not strongly enough that the plot of one effects the plot of another.


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Quote from blakraven66

-Adapted from is Novel to Manga or vice versa
-Spin-Off should be a completely different story with the same setting
-Side-Story should be somewhat like a spin-off, only there should be a connection between the two.
-Alternate Story would probably work the same as adapted from only it's manga to manga because there are instances where a novel may spawn two or more different manga adaptations.

Ah, okay. That's different than how I was thinking of them, so it's a good thing I asked, then. For "side story," what should the connection be? I would assume you mean a plot connection, but I want to make sure.
So, let me see if I have this right: Try! Try! Try! and Yotsubato! are spin-offs of each other, and Blame Academy! and BLAME! are also spin-offs of each other?
If that's how things should be, my third point about adding "main story" no longer has any valid reasons, so might as well ignore it.

Quote from blakraven66

-It's should be related series in terms of displayed series though what counts as prequels and sequels are dependent on the time line of the story not the year they were published.

Understood.

Quote from lambchopsil

I really don't have time to read all that right now...so if you still got questions that are unanswered, just post them (and hopefully it's not as long as that first post)

The first two are answered (and the third invalidated), but anything you have to add would be nice--I like things to be explained thoroughly, and I don't mind overkill.


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16 years ago
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Could we say that Try! Try! Try! is a prequel to Yotsuba&!? Right now there is no link from Yotsubato back to Try because "adapted from" doesn't create an automatic reverse link.


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Post #282200 - Reply To (#282171) by story645
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Quote from story645

What about just a retelling of the same story? I thought alternate story was the equivalent of AU (alternate universe) so you need the same characters, or plot or similar. All the Densha Otoko's are alternate stories of each other.

Quote from blakraven66

First-Alternate Story would probably work the same as adapted from only it's manga to manga because there are instances where a novel may spawn two or more different manga adaptations

Basically the same idea

Quote from story645

-Spin-Off should be a completely different story with the same setting

Or tangential story in a different setting with a character or two from the first story. The Code-Ex manga's a spin-off of the anime 'cause it focuses on one character.

No...it would probably be a side-story

Quote from story645

-Side-Story should be somewhat like a spin-off, only there should be a connection between the two.

do TRC and xxxHolic count as side stories to each other? (I feel like the relationship is stronger.) I agree with you on this, kind of: they don't need to really share settings, characters or anything else, just be sort of related to each other.
I dunno, I'm thinking about how 4 (at the least) of OGAWA Yayoi's series (Candy Life, Baby Pop, Kimi wa Pet, Extra Heavy Syrup) are tangentially related to each other, but not strongly enough that the plot of one effects the plot of another.

Yes, I do count that xxxHolic should be a side story to TRC and vice-versa. I would also count CCS as a side-story to TRC but no relation to xxxHolic. The relation for side-story IMO as opposed to Spin-offs is to at leats have an allusion or referencing of another series. I guess the best example for this aside from TRC would be Kakumei no Hi and Princess Princess

Where as spin-offs, they may have the same characters or setting but not exactly the same story. Like it may be the same character but he acts differently from the one you would know in another series.

Quote from lynira

what should the connection be? I would assume you mean a plot connection, but I want to make sure.

Read above

Quote from lynira

So, let me see if I have this right: Try! Try! Try! and Yotsubato! are spin-offs of each other

Hmmm...I think they're better suited as side-storys or prequel-sequel to each other as they're the exact same characters and related. Meaning the events in Try Try Try should be an experience the characters in Yotsubato have had. Like an extra OVA in anime if you will.

If it really is a side-story then your suggestion for a main story would be useful as it's counterpart. Yotsuba being the main and Try Try Try being the side.

Though if you think about it, Try Try Try coming first invalidates it as a side story.


... Last edited by blakraven66 16 years ago
Post #282283 - Reply To (#282200) by blakraven66
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Quote from blakraven66
First-Alternate Story would probably work the same as adapted from only it's manga to manga because there are instances where a novel may spawn two or more different manga adaptations

Basically the same idea

Sorry, for some reason I thought you were excluding comic book only properties. I figure even if a manga spins it's own different adaptation, if it's an alternate verse then it's an alternate story. (American comics various universes are a good example of various alternate stories of each other.)

I would also count CCS as a side-story to TRC but no relation to xxxHolic. The relation for side-story IMO as opposed to Spin-offs is to at leats have an allusion or referencing of another series.

CCS is technically the prequel to TRC. There should so be a differentiation between a cross-over type side story set and an allusion side story set, seeing as in the former type you may actually get some understanding to the story reading both sets the latter is kind of just a "oh cute" deal.

Like it may be the same character but he acts differently from the one you would know in another series.

huh? In tv terms, spin-offs are usually when one character from the original show has a whole new show built up around him. Comic books actually work the exact same way. So yeah, why is manga any different?

Quote from lynira

So, let me see if I have this right: Try! Try! Try! and Yotsubato! are spin-offs of each other

Hmmm...I think they're better suited as side-storys or prequel-sequel to each other as they're the exact same characters and related. Meaning the events in Try Try Try should be an experience the characters in Yotsubato have had. Like an extra OVA in anime if you will.

But Yotsubato! is a spin-off of Try! Try! Try! in the classic sense of what a spin-off is. Try! Try! Try! was written, then the publishers decided to spin it out into a whole story. Because Yotsubato is a derivative work of Try! Try! Try! it's adapeted from Try! Try! Try!


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Yeah, I guess clarifying this aspect would work well with series that have a lot of connections to other series... Like Higurashi, now that's the worst in terms of related series. 🤣


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Post #282292 - Reply To (#282283) by story645
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Quote from story645

But Yotsubato! is a spin-off of Try! Try! Try! in the classic sense of what a spin-off is. Try! Try! Try! was written, then the publishers decided to spin it out into a whole story. Because Yotsubato is a derivative work of Try! Try! Try! it's adapeted from Try! Try! Try!

Yeah, I was just starting to have doubts in my definition of spin-off.


... Last edited by blakraven66 16 years ago
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Quote from blakraven66

Hmmm...I think they're better suited as side-storys or prequel-sequel to each other as they're the exact same characters and related. Meaning the events in Try Try Try should be an experience the characters in Yotsubato have had. Like an extra OVA in anime if you will.

If it really is a side-story then your suggestion for a main story would be useful as it's counterpart. Yotsuba being the main and Try Try Try being the side.

Though if you think about it, Try Try Try coming first invalidates it as a side story.

...I get what you're saying, but... I'm still not sure what to list them as.
Anyway, the prequel-sequel idea is interesting (it sure would make things easy), but there isn't any evidence (not that I can find, at least) that indicates that the characters in Yotsubato! experienced anything that happened in Try! Try! Try!, and likewise for WANTED! (Romance Dawn) and One Piece. They have setting, characters (mostly), themes, genres, and main ideas in common, but they don't fit the classical definition of prequel-sequel. So if they were to be labeled prequel-sequel pairs, that would mean expanding the definition of "prequel/sequel" from "a literary work... that prefigures a later work, as by portraying the same characters at a younger age/a literary work... that is complete in itself but that continues the narrative of a preceding work" (Webster's Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary) to something much more general.

Quote from story645

Because Yotsubato is a derivative work of Try! Try! Try! it's adapeted from Try! Try! Try!

That makes sense in the every-day definition of "adapted from," but, based on what blakraven said, "adapted from" exclusively means novel-->manga and manga-->novel.

Quote from blakraven66

Yeah, I was just starting to have doubts in my definition of spin-off.

Huh? I'm confused now...

I just noticed something odd. I was lookin' at stuff, and I came across Protecting the Kanno House, and it has "D•N•Angel• (Main Story)" listed under the related series field! So I got all excited and clicked "edit" to see if "main story" was really added, but under the pull-down menu under "relation," it's not an option. And yet, under "relation" for D•N•Angel•, it definitely says "main story." How can this be?


... Last edited by blakraven66 16 years ago
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Quote from lynira

I just noticed something odd. I was lookin' at stuff, and I came across Protecting the Kanno House, and it has "D•N•Angel• (Main Story)" listed under the related series field! So I got all excited and clicked "edit" to see if "main story" was really added, but under the pull-down menu under "relation," it's not an option. And yet, under "relation" for D•N•Angel•, it definitely says "main story." How can this be?

I believe it's an auto feature when you make manga A a side story of manga B, manga B automatically becomes the main story...


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16 years ago
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Correct, it's automatic


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