Word of advice, don't listen to the talking heads, especially if they're promoting Crunchyroll. More often than not, they're just attention whores.

Also, and this the bigger issue, what is that you actually DO want to read? I know that I was asking (And acting about it) it in a crude way earlier, but this is a problem that doesn't get solved in a proper manner. As with the isekai thread and in this thread, numerous people are popping up stating "There is too much of X",and it should come as no surprise when people respond with, "No shit, what were you expecting?" And, you cannot really fault people for reacting in a defensive manner when you have the people complaining for (In this case) Japan to strip them of the very thing that makes them Japan.

So, to get down to the real issue, what is it that you're looking for? What do you want to read?

[img]http://www.dragonflycave.com/wpay/mew.gif[/img]

Quote from Lucumo

To be fair, humans are inherently selfish beings, 99+% of the things we do are selfish. Even if you work for a charity or something and help people, at the end it's for your own selfish desires, your convictions, your way of life. The most selfless thing is probably something like throwing your ...

That's fair. For that matter, I mean I think there's an issue within Japan as well, in that a lot of the popular stuff is dominating to the point of being stagnant, but you're right in that it's kinda amplified when it comes to the west. As for importing manga and/or learning Japanese. I'm not entirely sure that's a good idea to do JUST for manga or anime and the like. I'm still learning right now as it is and as much as I love it, it's something that requires somewhat of a deeper seeded interest metinks, but I digress.

Welcome to the watering hole, came here to wet your whistle?

Quote from Transdude1996

And, you cannot really fault people for reacting in a defensive manner when you have the people complaining for (In this case) Japan to strip them of the very thing that makes them Japan..

In what way is what's going on with the industry right now indicative of Japan's national identity? I mean if you want to get down to brass tacks I could tell you what I personally would like to see, as I mentioned in my original post I'd love to see more things like classic gag manga style stuff make a return, and open up more room for other types of art styles and such. or, I'd like to see things like Kinnikuman get more popular, but that's not important. The issue is no matter what any one individual would like to see, the fact so many people feel disenfranchised with manga and anime right now, due to their interests not being catered to is the problem. Manga and anime, as I've said before, are constantly chasing a tighter and tighter niche audience, with very few things really making broad success because of it, and that's why you get people like me complaining there's too much of one thing or another, and there's Japanese fans who feel the same way too.

also, lol, ofc I mean I don't listen to them for their opinion, especially with the crunchyroll kerfuffle going on, I just keep up with the talking heads to see if there's been any change in the norm for what's popular.

Welcome to the watering hole, came here to wet your whistle?

It honestly depends on the community your talking to because I've seen some anime and manga fans referring to the past decade as the "Dark age", and it's only now that Japan is getting experimental with their works again. Especially since there has been no shortage of webmanga coming out.

Quote from AkumatsuT

and there's Japanese fans who feel the same way too.

Got a source on that?

And, Miyazaki doesn't count, for a number of reasons.

Quote from AkumatsuT

I mean if you want to get down to brass tacks I could tell you what I personally would like to see, as I mentioned in my original post I'd love to see more things like classic gag manga style stuff make a return, and open up more room for other types of art styles and such.

Could you provide a bit more detail? You stated Dragon Ball as an example, however I'm one of those people who hasn't watched/read it. I did read Kajika, though, if that's close enough.

[img]http://www.dragonflycave.com/wpay/mew.gif[/img]

Quote from AkumatsuT

That's fair. For that matter, I mean I think there's an issue within Japan as well, in that a lot of the popular stuff is dominating to the point of being stagnant, but you're right in that it's kinda amplified when it comes to the west. As for importing manga and/or learning Japanese. I'm not entirely sure that's a good idea to do JUST for manga or anime and the like. I'm still learning right now as it is and as much as I love it, it's something that requires somewhat of a deeper seeded interest metinks, but I digress.

Yeah, when it comes to those things, at best they change the flavor of something and call it a day. I'm not sure how familiar you guys are with the reasons why it has been the way it is for a while now (bubble economy, the fallout from that etc) but because of that, in general, manga/anime these days only represent a niche demographic in Japan, rather than the whole spectrum. Of course, manga are a bit less affected thanks to the costs involved but it's really visible when it comes to anime.
Haha, it wouldn't be just for anime and manga...but for games too ? I have a general interest in Japan and am generally sad that they are losing a lot of their culture (due to the youth moving to cities, Americanization etc), so I would definitely be fine. The problem is that there are no proper courses that offer to learn the language full-time (I'm terrible at self-learning but excellent when it comes to a school/work environment).
Importing is fine. Manga are decently cheap, so getting a series or two is not that bad. Anime are the issue though, I paid ￥ 21,878 for 24 episodes of Gankutsuou (DVD) for instance. Add to that tax and shipping and well...

As for Crunchyroll...it's not really a thing in the country I live in. Sure, it has some newer titles and people can accept the bad streaming quality (and subs) but since I pretty much don't care about the new releases, it's completely worthless for me. And speaking about Crunchyroll, Netflix is pretty similar. For some reason they are seen as the "savior" of anime but they really don't help and Japanese people in the industry have also already spoken out to clear up the situation a bit.

Quote from Transdude1996

Got a source on that?

If you seriously think Japanese fans are one giant hive mind that all enjoy the same thing, you're living in a bubble. For that matter you're asking again for individuals (such as, if you really NEED it, people like Mitsuo or Henocchi on twitter) when on principle it should be obvious what I'm getting at. I don't get why we both can't agree on this sort of thing anyway, it's not as if I outright said any one genre or subgenre needed to die out, just that there's too much of one thing right now.

Welcome to the watering hole, came here to wet your whistle?

Quote from AkumatsuT

I don't get why we both can't agree on this sort of thing anyway, it's not as if I outright said any one genre or subgenre needed to die out, just that there's too much of one thing right now.

Because, in West, you have an army of drones pushing for Japan to destroy everything that makes Japan Japan. And, I've been screaming about this several times on this site for the past months. What should even make this even more puzzling/alarming is that Japan is a Hell of a lot more progressive than just about anyone in the West, yet there's article after article (As well as an endless group on bottom feeders on Twitter, tumblr, Resetera, etc.) talking about how sexist anime and manga are and how terrible of a person you are for liking it (With even the British government even feeling the need to make a "documentary" detailing how terrible of a person you are and the Japanese are), and the most recent outrage being about Goblin Slayer, which gained so much attention that Crunchyroll actually felt the need to issue a warning about the series.

Also, this is leaving out the most recent act where Western companies are forcing the Japanese to censor their JAPANESE EXCLUSIVE PRODUCTS IN JAPAN.

[img]http://www.dragonflycave.com/wpay/mew.gif[/img]

So in simpler words with less links:
You don't agree cause you want to push your agenda even if it doesn't really apply here.
Akumatsu is talking about there being too much of a thing.
You are equating reducing the vast pile of a thing to undermining the Japanese culture and society as a whole which leads to the inevitable westernization and impending doom of it.

So yeah there is no way you two would agree. He's fed up with a company releasing the same stuff over and over again while you fear the pitchforks and torches from the West that will burn down Japan.

Let me address your point for a moment though. Were you ever part of any forum or circle of interest before? There are documentations, articles, mobs, bottom feeders for every thing. Everyone has some agenda they are gonna try and push on others. Congrats, you aren't better than the people you so despise for doing so. Actually you are quite the same just with a different agenda.
It actually gets real tiresome when people blindly push instead of considering if it really applies. If you really do think that people getting fed up with samey manga means a destruction of Japanese culture... You might have to take a step back, breath a little and consider if you might just be in a little too deep for your own good.

in need of romance?
uncommon, sad, sweet

Quote from Lorska

You don't agree cause you want to push your agenda even if it doesn't really apply here.

No, I don't agree because of the amount of times people come forward claiming to "love Japan" or like their culture, only to then turn heel and say that they wish Japan would stop being so controversial or sexual or Japanese.

Quote from Lorska

You are equating reducing the vast pile of a thing to undermining the Japanese culture and society as a whole which leads to the inevitable westernization and impending doom of it.

Well, let's look at the West right now. We've had to "compromise" on reducing aspects of our culture and entertainment, and now governments are falling apart because you have citizens that have no idea what it means to actually be a citizen of their country, immigrants (Of all kinds) coming in with values from their countries and their cultures which completely clash with everything in the West (With some even stating that the left their homeland to get away from the crap), meanwhile the baizuo keep shouting to high heavens that "Everything is alright."

However, I guess the biggest irony of it all is that the citizens of these countries that these people keep coming from are even bigger weebs than just about anyone from a Western country, yet you keep seeing Westerners trashing Japan.

Quote from Lorska

He's fed up with a company releasing the same stuff over and over again while you fear the pitchforks and torches from the West that will burn down Japan.

Just a few posts ago, I stated that a bigger problem is how very few people actually ask about, or seem to look for, something that satisfies their tastes. There are about 25,000 titles listed on this site that have been picked up over the years (Not counting licensed series), with over 450 that are series released in 2018 alone, and you mean to tell me that you cannot find something that suites your pallet, at all, what so over? Along with that, there are webmangas being published all over the place on Pixiv, Twitter, NicoNico, and that's even leaving out the hundreds of magazines that exist in Japan on top of the decades of series that we're still adding to this site nearly 40 years after release such as Hurricane Z and Maicching Machiko-sensei.

Quote from Lorska

Were you ever part of any forum or circle of interest before? There are documentations, articles, mobs, bottom feeders for every thing. Everyone has some agenda they are gonna try and push on others. Congrats, you aren't better than the people you so despise for doing so. Actually you are quite the same just with a different agenda.

How is someone wanting to insert themselves into a culture and degrading it year after year until it finally appeals to their sensibilities and losing everything that made people originally join that culture in the first place equal to someone who inserts themselves into a culture, likes it the way it is, and wants it to preserve it so that other people are able to join and take part in the beautiful thing that they liked? You're comparing deer to wolves.

Quote from Lorska

It actually gets real tiresome when people blindly push instead of considering if it really applies. If you really do think that people getting fed up with samey manga means a destruction of Japanese culture... You might have to take a step back, breath a little and consider if you might just be in a little too deep for your own good.

Then why didn't AkumatsuT reply to my part of the post where I stated:

Quote from Transdude1996

Could you provide a bit more detail? You stated Dragon Ball as an example, however I'm one of those people who hasn't watched/read it. I did read Kajika, though, if that's close enough.

Actually, that also really bothers me about what happened in the isekai thread because you had the OP complaining about aspects of isekai stories that all boiled down to "It's a part of Japanese culture". And, while he did list a few series that he did like, he never explained WHY he liked those series over something else, and instead went on to start trashing Japan and talking about how they should learn from the West. In fact, that's the larger problem with threads such as these because you have people complaining about something, yet they never actually explain, detail, or provide several examples of what it is that they DO like. And, you naturally act surprised when people tell you piss-off.

Actually, thinking about it now, these types of threads don't exist for any other reason than for people to just make shitposts, don't they?

[img]http://www.dragonflycave.com/wpay/mew.gif[/img]

Of course they are

shitposts

It's not like anyone here can change anything about what the publishers in Japan decide to do...
If we had any relevance over there stuff like Double Arts would have never been terminated.

In the end everything you just posted is a sociopolitical "issue" and you are against the stuff that happens. Now we could get into a debate but I really don't feel like doing that right now, especially when it's just a clash of opinions in the end anyway, like all sociopolitical topics it simply depends on your viewpoint and there is hardly a way to find compromises or anything. I would like to address one thing though...

How is someone wanting to insert themselves into a culture and degrading it year after year until it finally appeals to their sensibilities and losing everything that made people originally join that culture in the first place equal to someone who inserts themselves into a culture, likes it the way it is, and wants it to preserve it so that other people are able to join and take part in the beautiful thing that they liked? You're comparing deer to wolves.

This argument is exactly why America right now is fucked cause the right and left camps will never ever compromise on anything. You are putting yourself and your position on a moral high ground as the preserver. While the others are just barbarians, robbing and plundering only leaving wasteland. No. Both sides are bigots thinking they are better than the other side. You can come up with any amount of positives or negatives for both sides of this spectrum here. And this is exactly why (political) discussions like this are always pointless in the end. It's you doing what you think is right vs others doing what they think is right. On a matter where nobody is right or wrong, where the concept of "right" doesn't even make sense.

in need of romance?
uncommon, sad, sweet

Quote from Lorska

It's not like anyone here can change anything about what the publishers in Japan decide to do...

You'd be surprised where creators go, and just how quickly things can spread.

Quote from Lorska

If we had any relevance over there stuff like Double Arts would have never been terminated.

What about Highschool of the Dead (Which actually was very popular) or part 3 of Tobaku Haouden Rei? Also, there are creators like LIM Dall Young who (un)intentionally leave things unfinished (But, then again, from what I've been told, his particular case is an actual Korean cultural thing where they literally believe it's better to leave a story on indefinite hiatus than to ever actually end it, which means less than no hope for Id). And, that's not even mentioning instances where companies like Kadokawa fired the director of Kemono Friends which, after receiving the anger of everyone globally because it was that successful, then forced the voice actors to issue the apology all the while going forward with a second season and producing all the merchandise that they can.

Quote from Lorska

This argument is exactly why America right now is fucked cause the right and left camps will never ever compromise on anything.

What is there to compromise on? As far as I know, just about everyone hates unjustified taxes, wants protection from anyone and anything threatening, hates governments and companies that are snooping on them, wants politicians who will represent the people and not serve other interests, hates being treated like children even into adulthood, wants equal opportunity, hates being unjustly accused, wants freedom of speech, and that's just off the top of my head.

You are putting yourself and your position on a moral high ground as the preserver. While the others are just barbarians, robbing and plundering only leaving wasteland.

Have you ever looked at New York, or Detroit, or San Francisco, or France, or Germany, or Venezuelan, or Africa, or looked at any of the former USSR territories? Heck, you had the Brazillian police literally holding up signs saying "Welcome to Hell" (Although, their recent change in government may mean that things could start turning around). And, there are some countries that are "better" but are just as bad such as Worst Korea or Spain.

No. Both sides are bigots thinking they are better than the other side. You can come up with any amount of positives or negatives for both sides of this spectrum here. And this is exactly why (political) discussions like this are always pointless in the end. It's you doing what you think is right vs others doing what they think is right. On a matter where nobody is right or wrong, where the concept of "right" doesn't even make sense.

Sounds very much like a personal issue to me where you don't know where you stand on issues and just want to be left alone. Which is fine in and of itself because that's how majority of people think, however there is a time and place where you do have to take a stand on where you are with issues and start saying, "Enough is enough". For most people, that battle begins when they start experience their little corner of the world being attacked. For a few others, that depends how aware they are of the issues already present in the world (Both past and current) and speculating on just how easily the very same actions and events can apply to their life.

Also, why does this keep going down into a political discussion while everyone is ignoring the question of: WHAT EXACTLY IS IT THAT YOU WANT TO READ?

[img]http://www.dragonflycave.com/wpay/mew.gif[/img]

We are talking about a medium that is strictly driven by consumer demand, so anything can change in an instant. Actually not changing at all is ridiculous to begin with, as the medium is so closely tied to the people it caters to.

Also I should have made it clear that the barbarian analogy was a direct response to your wolf and deer analogy. I wasn't talking about America, but your moral high ground on this topic.

And sadly this is all that's possible. Speculation. And why this whole discussion is so pointless. Speculating about how good or bad it is that people want change (but only the unqualified people, the outsiders that don't know any better and try to pollute the waters) in a medium, I repeat, driven by change as people change.

Have I noticed the overall quality going down? No, because I'm extremely selective with what I read, so unless multiple criteria are fulfilled I won't even start a series. Would I like some new manga similar to older ones I read? Yeah, but times change so I won't get too many of those. Would I like this isekai craze to be over so we have a higher chance for more diverse works? Sure, but at the same time that is already happening, So there is no rush. Change is always coming.

It's simply the nature of humans to be critical and wanting change.

in need of romance?
uncommon, sad, sweet

When did I even bring up western politics? I don't like any of that either, believe me I'm at the forefront of not wanting to deal with that in any way possible. All I've been getting at is over-saturation. In case it wasn't obvious, I also too like Japan, enough to be disappointed with how much people are trying to change it. All I ever said however was on the inverse, moe girls being absolutely everywhere and things being made to have sex appeal for wound up otaku all the time is also annoying. I just want something else. The last anime I really even cared for, (Kinnikuman is still going so that's the last manga I guess) was the new Bakabon, because it was the only thing that really appealed to me. Likewise, I don't care for things like goblin slayer or dragon maid, or any of those other things not because of politics, I'm just not interested. It's boring for me, not fun. I can't be the only person who feels this way.

Welcome to the watering hole, came here to wet your whistle?

Quote from Transdude1996

Then why didn't AkumatsuT reply to my part of the post where I stated:

First: I did, I said I wanted more things similar to classic gag manga. If you REALLY need examples, most of Akatsuka Fujio's works, Dokonjou Gaeru, or Tottemo Luckyman are some I guess, but that's besides the point.

Second: I didn't answer was because my argument was that what I want in specific isn't important, and rather, I kept it intentionally vague as to imply others who felt the same (in that the market is over saturated with one type of content) no matter what they wanted to see, could also be accommodated. There's a lot of guys who want the "Manime" style of muscle manga stuff to come back, and likewise they have a place too, just for example. I was arguing on principle.

Welcome to the watering hole, came here to wet your whistle?

Quote from Lorska

I wasn't talking about America, but your moral high ground on this topic.

Then, why did you even feel the need to bring up America in the first place:

Quote from Lorska

This argument is exactly why America right now is fucked cause the right and left camps will never ever compromise on anything.

Quote from Lorska

And sadly this is all that's possible. Speculation. And why this whole discussion is so pointless. Speculating about how good or bad it is that people want change (but only the unqualified people, the outsiders that don't know any better and try to pollute the waters) in a medium, I repeat, driven by change as people change.

Except for the fact that this isn't speculation. It's happening, right now. A lot of the links I provided above show numerous examples of how these events have been happening during the past two years.

As far as I know, one of the few things I've left is the Gookanon, who I repeatedly source, has been screaming for over a year about how you can get arrested in South Korea and thrown on a sex offenders list for looking at a DRAWING of a woman, and that the police have completely dedicated their time to catching said drawing viewers while letting legit pedophiles and child molesters reign free. And, in the West, people are well on their way to creating the same Hell with how you have the British police saying that they are unable to tackle real crimes anymore: https://archive.fo/AU4yv And, the U.S. government is making sex dolls illegal: https://archive.fo/RC1Qe

Quote from Lorska

Would I like some new manga similar to older ones I read? Yeah, but times change so I won't get too many of those.

How would you, I, or anyone else know when everyone seems so tight-lipped about stating what exactly it is that they like?

[img]http://www.dragonflycave.com/wpay/mew.gif[/img]