Good and Evil
17 years ago
Posts: 5329
Quote from Calliber
Quote from Mamsmilk
Good and evil only exist in our minds.
Killing isn't evil, it is vital for you to proceed
and reach your goals. We have good and evil
due to our morals.I agree with you that good and evil exists in our minds. With knowledge, we give value to actions and thus dub them good or evil, therefore it only exists in human society.
Killing isn't wrong, but killing another human being is wrong.
But is killing another human always wrong? And is being wrong being evil?
Listen here
Livin just to keep from dyin
[img]http://imagegen.last.fm/TheDarkTen/recenttracks/imgooley.gif[/img]
17 years ago
Posts: 1650
Quote from ahoaho
Quote from Calliber
Quote from Mamsmilk
Good and evil only exist in our minds.
Killing isn't evil, it is vital for you to proceed
and reach your goals. We have good and evil
due to our morals.I agree with you that good and evil exists in our minds. With knowledge, we give value to actions and thus dub them good or evil, therefore it only exists in human society.
Killing isn't wrong, but killing another human being is wrong.
But is killing another human always wrong? And is being wrong being evil?
Killing another human being... I guess it depends. Because if it is always wrong, then the death sentence, even for the most hideous crimes, is always wrong.
Being wrong isn't always evil. Being wrong with malice is.
Member17 years ago
Posts: 116
Evil can't exist without Good and Good can't exist without Evil.
Therefore if Good would disappear then Evil would lose its meaning, and the reverse is also true.
17 years ago
Posts: 115
Quote from Mamsmilk
Quote from kuraruka
Quote from Mamsmilk
Good and evil only exist in our minds.
[b]Killing isn't evil, it is vital for you to proceed
and reach your goals.[/b] We have good and evil
due to our morals.Could you elaborate?
Just saying that killing does have got some goal
which most likely is good to yourself.
You're right in that most killers have some goal in mind which may be "good" as far as they're concerned. It doesn't, however, follow from that that killing is "vital for you to proceed". I also fail to see how the fact that good and evil exist within our minds is an argument against the validity of morality, which you seem to be implying.
Allow me to reacquaint you with... THE GROUND!
Moderator17 years ago
Posts: 3342
Quote from ahoaho
Quote from Calliber
Quote from Mamsmilk
Good and evil only exist in our minds.
Killing isn't evil, it is vital for you to proceed
and reach your goals. We have good and evil
due to our morals.I agree with you that good and evil exists in our minds. With knowledge, we give value to actions and thus dub them good or evil, therefore it only exists in human society.
Killing isn't wrong, but killing another human being is wrong.
But is killing another human always wrong? And is being wrong being evil?
Well killing is prima facie wrong, but death is necessary to the cycle of life. Life is just as important as death, so if a human has to kill to keep said balance, then it is necessary.
Killing in self defense can be justifiable. War is nothing more than people in power pointing fingers about things that could've easily been avoided. I can't think of any instance where war would be justified, but nonetheless it helps to advance society.
Ironic isn't it?
[color=#ff0000]"“That's the difference between me and the rest of the world!
Happiness isn't good enough for me! I demand euphoria!” "[/color]
17 years ago
Posts: 1310
Ok, let’s try again
There isn’t such a thing as Good or evil, there are just different points of view in different matters.
That is what I mean, when I say that there is no Black and White, just different tones of Gray
In order to live in “harmony” Society or better say mankind made rules and coexistence became possible, however that doesn’t mean that going against said rules is necessary an EVIL thing.
Harming another person would be considered evil by most people, but is not evil at all, is just that they believe you did something wrong, in the end what matters is what the people that makes the rules believes.
Without Rules Anarchy and Chaos would take over society, and coexistence wouldn’t be possible anymore, in the end “Good” and “Evil” is just a concept.
In order to keep everyone in Check and paying close attention to the Rules, consequences were made, “if” you steal money, you will go to jail, “If” You kill someone, you will go to jail, and maybe be killed too, in short “IF” you do something bad, you will be punished.
However, who decides what is right and what is wrong? The people with power, power gives you the right to decide and bend/make/Erase Rules.
In the end those with power are the ones that decide what is right and what is wrong, what is “Good” and what is “Bad”, power comes in different shapes and ways, but it always has the same meaning.
Absolute Power gives you the right to make Absolute rules, no one is going to like it, but that is the way the ball swings.
In Today Society right and wrong, is decided, by those with power (doesn’t need to be a single person, a mob has power in its own way)
🙄
Let's see what you think about that now
17 years ago
Posts: 5329
Quote from Calliber
Quote from ahoaho
Quote from Calliber
[quote=Mamsmilk]Good and evil only exist in our minds.
Killing isn't evil, it is vital for you to proceed
and reach your goals. We have good and evil
due to our morals.I agree with you that good and evil exists in our minds. With knowledge, we give value to actions and thus dub them good or evil, therefore it only exists in human society.
Killing isn't wrong, but killing another human being is wrong.
But is killing another human always wrong? And is being wrong being evil?
Well killing is prima facie wrong, but death is necessary to the cycle of life. Life is just as important as death, so if a human has to kill to keep said balance, then it is necessary.
Killing in self defense can be justifiable. War is nothing more than people in power pointing fingers about things that could've easily been avoided. I can't think of any instance where war would be justified, but nonetheless it helps to advance society.
Ironic isn't it?[/quote]
I can think of a few instances where a war is justified.
As to your first statement; can you give an example?
Listen here
Livin just to keep from dyin
[img]http://imagegen.last.fm/TheDarkTen/recenttracks/imgooley.gif[/img]
Moderator17 years ago
Posts: 3342
Quote from ahoaho
Quote from Calliber
Quote from ahoaho
But is killing another human always wrong? And is being wrong being evil?
Well killing is prima facie wrong, but death is necessary to the cycle of life. Life is just as important as death, so if a human has to kill to keep said balance, then it is necessary.
Killing in self defense can be justifiable. War is nothing more than people in power pointing fingers about things that could've easily been avoided. I can't think of any instance where war would be justified, but nonetheless it helps to advance society.
Ironic isn't it?
I can think of a few instances where a war is justified.
As to your first statement; can you give an example?
If resources are running low, and in order to survive, one must kill another human or species for nourishment.
If someone suffered an injury and became a vegetable, and in order to keep said person alive the family had to work alot harder for that hospital bill. I think that usually cost like 30-40 grand a year.
Self defense. There is always an alternative to killing, but when driven to wire, where its kill or be killed, then self defense is applicable. Self defense is of course assuming that the attack is doing something prima facie wrong by trying to kill you.
~Examples:
*If a natural predator of humans become overpopulated and threaten to wipe out humanity (of course that won't happen, we obliterated this possibility during the stone ages)
*Similarly, if a race of humans try to erase another race's culture, history,and people, then killing in order to keep way of life is justified.
In retrospect, all the instances have to do with self defense. Some of them may be bad examples, but you get the point.
[color=#ff0000]"“That's the difference between me and the rest of the world!
Happiness isn't good enough for me! I demand euphoria!” "[/color]
17 years ago
Posts: 115
Quote from Chaoswind
Ok, let’s try again
There isn’t such a thing as Good or evil, there are just different points of view in different matters.
That is what I mean, when I say that there is no Black and White, just different tones of Gray
Of course there are different points of view on every question of morality. That doesn’t make them all equally valid. As for the quite frankly clichéd and overused white/black/grey metaphor, some shades of gray are clearly darker than others. In fact, in most cases you can compare two shades of gray and pick out the darker one, or look at a single shade of grey and note that it’s really freaking close to black or white.
Quote from Chaoswind
In order to live in “harmony” Society or better say mankind made rules and coexistence became possible, however that doesn’t mean that going against said rules is necessary an EVIL thing.
Agreed. Whether or not going against society’s rules is evil or not depends on the rule that was broken, and the surrounding circumstances.
Quote from Chaoswind
Harming another person would be considered evil by most people, but is not evil at all, is just that they believe you did something wrong, in the end what matters is what the people that makes the rules believes.
Yes, actually, it is. Harming another person without any good reason or extenuating circumstances making it necessary is, in fact, evil. If you’re not going to offer any support for your view other than stating it flatly, I don’t see why I should either.
Quote from Chaoswind
Without Rules Anarchy and Chaos would take over society, and coexistence wouldn’t be possible anymore, in the end “Good” and “Evil” is just a concept.
In order to keep everyone in Check and paying close attention to the Rules, consequences were made, “if” you steal money, you will go to jail, “If” You kill someone, you will go to jail, and maybe be killed too, in short “IF” you do something bad, you will be punished.However, who decides what is right and what is wrong? The people with power, power gives you the right to decide and bend/make/Erase Rules.
In the end those with power are the ones that decide what is right and what is wrong, what is “Good” and what is “Bad”, power comes in different shapes and ways, but it always has the same meaning.Absolute Power gives you the right to make Absolute rules, no one is going to like it, but that is the way the ball swings.
In Today Society right and wrong, is decided, by those with power (doesn’t need to be a single person, a mob has power in its own way)
It does not follow from “he who has the power makes the rules” that “he who has the power decides what is right and wrong”. Rules themselves can be right or wrong. An entity, regardless of how much power it wields, has no more influence over what’s right and wrong than it does over the fact that 2 + 2 = 4 (also merely a concept, by the way). All cynicism aside, might doesn’t make right. Might can pretend it makes right, and, if it’s mighty enough, force everyone else to pretend along with it, just as in some nightmarish Orwellian scenario the powers that be could force everyone to pretend, or perhaps even truly believe, that 2 + 2 = 5. All of that wouldn’t make it true, however.
Quote from Chaoswind
🙄
Let's see what you think about that now
Still not entirely convinced, I’m afraid. Every time I hear an argument like yours it seems to have been constructed merely for the purpose of relieving the speaker of the obligation to consider the consequences of their actions for anyone beyond themselves. Granted, arguments stand or fall on their own merit; the motives behind an argument, self-serving though they may be, have no bearing on the validity of the argument itself, but really...
You do seem to be getting better at this whole arguing thing, though.
Allow me to reacquaint you with... THE GROUND!
17 years ago
Posts: 1310
Well like I said People with power make the rules, knowledge is power, If tomorrow Stephen Hawking's somehow probed that 2+2 can somehow be 5 (after a very complex formula) you will have to believe he is right (eventually), or until someone managed to probe him wrong
Is the same with the average person, if MOST/ALL People think killing another person without a reason is OK as long as they have fun, then that would make it right.
God is Almighty, so he made the first rules that mankind decided to follow (Regardless of religion "god" made rules for them to follow), the consequences of breaking said rules were mainly social (a mob going after a thief) but besides social consequences, there are religious consequences (GOING TO HELL)
In a world of people that think marring 5 wives is ok (and that is also OK in the Eyes of god), then without matter what you believe, that would be right.
In a world of crazy people that believe the world to be flat 🙄 (and "God" also says the same thing) if you dare to say the world is round, that would mean you are wrong and they are right, and they surely will start to call you crazy and insane 😲 , so in order to stop them from calling you that, you would have to somehow probe them you are right and they are wrong 🙂
Like I said, there are different types of power, I don't mean the guy with the biggest gun, but the power needed to control/guide the mind of others to a sole believe, just look at Bush and co, they managed to move a group of sheep's and made them believe a war with Iraq would harm the terrorist in some sort of way, and for a while they were right (in the eyes of idiots at least) 😲
Member17 years ago
Posts: 92
Quote from Calliber
What are your thoughts about balance and/or origins of good and evil. And how have these beliefs shaped your morals and ethics? (O yes, time for you folks to get deep here)
Is this balance of good and evil applicable to a person's personality, if you think of evil as selfishnes and good as selflessnes (or the other way round)? A balance of these traits makes sense, since a purely selfless person only lives for other people and won't follow own interests, while a purely selfish person will be hated for his greed and the things it makes him do. So I believe a healthy personality is a balance of good and evil.
As for the origin of selfishness, it is natural, since it's the motivation for self-preservation. Selflessness may be a result of religions, since all the major religions consider compassion, which is vital for selflessness, as a great virtue.
17 years ago
Posts: 363
you know if you think about it everyone is evil cause the human race is developing cures and ways to make humans live longer and the weak live to which in human eyes looks like a "good" thing but accutuallly its bringing the human race to its destruction if the weak survive the kids of the weak will be weak to but if the strong(best addapt) survive the human race will get stronger and survive. but our ethics prevent this from happening which if looking at the survival of the humans makes our way of living and our society "evil"
personally i like to be evil this way 😛
Member17 years ago
Posts: 92
Quote from D_dragon
you know if you think about it everyone is evil cause the human race is developing cures and ways to make humans live longer and the weak live to which in human eyes looks like a "good" thing but accutuallly its bringing the human race to its destruction if the weak survive the kids of the weak will be weak to but if the strong(best addapt) survive the human race will get stronger and survive. but our ethics prevent this from happening which if looking at the survival of the humans makes our way of living and our society "evil"
personally i like to be evil this way 😛
Defying natural selection is truly evil, but I doubt it will lead to humanity's destruction. Even if humans get very weak, as long as they can still pull a trigger, they're superior to the rest of this planet's inhabitants. Except dolphins perhaps ( they're among the most intelligent animals and who knows which invasion armies they're gathering in the depths of the ocean).
17 years ago
Posts: 1310
Quote from stoned philosopher
Quote from D_dragon
you know if you think about it everyone is evil cause the human race is developing cures and ways to make humans live longer and the weak live to which in human eyes looks like a "good" thing but accutuallly its bringing the human race to its destruction if the weak survive the kids of the weak will be weak to but if the strong(best addapt) survive the human race will get stronger and survive. but our ethics prevent this from happening which if looking at the survival of the humans makes our way of living and our society "evil"
personally i like to be evil this way 😛
Defying natural selection is truly evil, but I doubt it will lead to humanity's destruction. Even if humans get very weak, as long as they can still pull a trigger, they're superior to the rest of this planet's inhabitants. Except dolphins perhaps ( they're among the most intelligent animals and who knows which invasion armies they're gathering in the depths of the ocean).
pull a trigger? YEAH that will truly help against viruses and what not.
WEAK HUMANS DESERVE TO DIE!!!! MUAHAHAHA 🙄
Now, I am one of these weak humans, so I deserve to die? go and **** yourself!!!
as long as we can manipulate genes, everything will be fine in the end... gime my Wolverine powers NOW
17 years ago
Posts: 363
i just thought of something else if you try to create the ultimate "good"place you would have to get rid of the "evil"so the only non-fictional way to do that would be kill all "evil" people and to kill would make the killer "evil"even if he would think its for the greater good (-the goal jutifies the means- was that right?) and he would have to be killed and so on so creating a cycle which leads to one remaining "evil" person right?
hope it makes sense when i thought of it, it did
