So the assumption of this thread would be, "which movie did you like better?"

The Joker in The Dark Night was the complete polar opposite of batman. Batman used fear to inspire order while Joker used fear to inspire chaos. Therefore, Heath Ledger's portrayal was perfect for said movie.

I don't remember much of the first batman with George Clooney and Jack Nickelson, but whatever joker was used was best for the film. If you were to switch the portrayal of Joker in the movies with each other, then the joker would seem out of context to the environment of the movie.

Sure Heath's Joker could've used more laughing, but he was still creepy and funny enough without the laughing. He made killing seem like stress relief.
Jack was a maniac, who made it seem like it was fun to kill someone.

Honestly, I like Heath's better, even though it wasn't true to the comic.The cold killer that uses dry humor for his jokes is a bad guy I'd like better than a laughing hyena. But just because something isn't true to the comic doesn't mean it will be all bad.

[color=#ff0000]"“That's the difference between me and the rest of the world!
Happiness isn't good enough for me! I demand euphoria!” "[/color]

^ Correction. Michael Keaton was Batman in the first Batman movie. And although the Joker in the Dark Knight wasn't true to the comic book after the whole censorship thing, it was true to what the Joker was in the original Batman story (it was dark and gritty like the Dark Knight was).

Quote from sandman1008

^ Correction. Michael Keaton was Batman in the first Batman movie. And although the Joker in the Dark Knight wasn't true to the comic book after the whole censorship thing, it was true to what the Joker was in the original Batman story (it was dark and gritty like the Dark Knight was).

Batman first appeared in the"Detective Comics" issue #27 where he solved cases, beat up the bad guys, and left just in time for the police to soak up the glory. This comic was intended for an older audience, but the introduction of robin in the stories later on brought interest from younger readers. The batman comic became it's own comic, that would trade stories back and forth between batman and detective comics.

So yes, the world portrayed in "The dark night" is true to the comic book. not sure if joker even existed during the time when batman was part of the detective comics, but if he did, then I'm pretty sure Heath's Joker would've been very accurate.

[color=#ff0000]"“That's the difference between me and the rest of the world!
Happiness isn't good enough for me! I demand euphoria!” "[/color]

Quote from Calliber

Quote from sandman1008

^ Correction. Michael Keaton was Batman in the first Batman movie. And although the Joker in the Dark Knight wasn't true to the comic book after the whole censorship thing, it was true to what the Joker was in the original Batman story (it was dark and gritty like the Dark Knight was).

Batman first appeared in the"Detective Comics" issue #27 where he solved cases, beat up the bad guys, and left just in time for the police to soak up the glory. This comic was intended for an older audience, but the introduction of robin in the stories later on brought interest from younger readers. The batman comic became it's own comic, that would trade stories back and forth between batman and detective comics.

So yes, the world portrayed in "The dark night" is true to the comic book. not sure if joker even existed during the time when batman was part of the detective comics, but if he did, then I'm pretty sure Heath's Joker would've been very accurate.

yes, yes he did exist in detectives comics, in-fact he was the first villain in Batman #1, in which he is portrayed as a mass murderer with clown make-up more closely linked to the "Heath" portrayal of him then the "Jack" portrayal.

Quote from Badat

Quote from Calliber

Quote from sandman1008

^ Correction. Michael Keaton was Batman in the first Batman movie. And although the Joker in the Dark Knight wasn't true to the comic book after the whole censorship thing, it was true to what the Joker was in the original Batman story (it was dark and gritty like the Dark Knight was).

Batman first appeared in the"Detective Comics" issue #27 where he solved cases, beat up the bad guys, and left just in time for the police to soak up the glory. This comic was intended for an older audience, but the introduction of robin in the stories later on brought interest from younger readers. The batman comic became it's own comic, that would trade stories back and forth between batman and detective comics.

So yes, the world portrayed in "The dark night" is true to the comic book. not sure if joker even existed during the time when batman was part of the detective comics, but if he did, then I'm pretty sure Heath's Joker would've been very accurate.

yes, yes he did exist in detectives comics, in-fact he was the first villain in Batman #1, in which he is portrayed as a mass murderer with clown make-up more closely linked to the "Heath" portrayal of him then the "Jack" portrayal.

Well then, as the great detectives would say...

"case closed"

(FUN with PUNS FTW!)

[color=#ff0000]"“That's the difference between me and the rest of the world!
Happiness isn't good enough for me! I demand euphoria!” "[/color]

Quote from Calliber

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Quote from Calliber

[quote=sandman1008]^ Correction. Michael Keaton was Batman in the first Batman movie. And although the Joker in the Dark Knight wasn't true to the comic book after the whole censorship thing, it was true to what the Joker was in the original Batman story (it was dark and gritty like the Dark Knight was).

Batman first appeared in the"Detective Comics" issue #27 where he solved cases, beat up the bad guys, and left just in time for the police to soak up the glory. This comic was intended for an older audience, but the introduction of robin in the stories later on brought interest from younger readers. The batman comic became it's own comic, that would trade stories back and forth between batman and detective comics.

So yes, the world portrayed in "The dark night" is true to the comic book. not sure if joker even existed during the time when batman was part of the detective comics, but if he did, then I'm pretty sure Heath's Joker would've been very accurate.

yes, yes he did exist in detectives comics, in-fact he was the first villain in Batman #1, in which he is portrayed as a mass murderer with clown make-up more closely linked to the "Heath" portrayal of him then the "Jack" portrayal.

Well then, as the great detectives would say...

"case closed"

(FUN with PUNS FTW!)[/quote]
That may be so, but the character has had various incarnations in the past, and certain people have attatchments to various incarnations. I remember the Joker of the earlier cartoons, the ones that appeared in the 90's, after the first Batman film was released with Nicholson, so I have an attachment to that incarnation of the Joker.

However, that does not weigh heavily on my analysis. I haven't seen the older Batman movie in quite some time, but this debate has made me want to revisit it.

Further analysis notwithstanding, I will say that Heath Ledger's portrayal of the Joker left much to be wanted, as his screen time was extremely limited. Only one scene left an impression. It was well acted, but poorly written, imo. The Joker did not particularly frighten/creep me out in any respect.

As far as a character who really gets under one's skin, the yellow dude in Sin City and the Cannibal kid in the same film really, really, really creep me out, to a far greater degree than The Joker.

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Willem Dafoe would have made a better Joker.

Quote from ahoaho

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Quote from Badat

[quote=Calliber][quote=sandman1008]^ Correction. Michael Keaton was Batman in the first Batman movie. And although the Joker in the Dark Knight wasn't true to the comic book after the whole censorship thing, it was true to what the Joker was in the original Batman story (it was dark and gritty like the Dark Knight was).

Batman first appeared in the"Detective Comics" issue #27 where he solved cases, beat up the bad guys, and left just in time for the police to soak up the glory. This comic was intended for an older audience, but the introduction of robin in the stories later on brought interest from younger readers. The batman comic became it's own comic, that would trade stories back and forth between batman and detective comics.

So yes, the world portrayed in "The dark night" is true to the comic book. not sure if joker even existed during the time when batman was part of the detective comics, but if he did, then I'm pretty sure Heath's Joker would've been very accurate.

yes, yes he did exist in detectives comics, in-fact he was the first villain in Batman #1, in which he is portrayed as a mass murderer with clown make-up more closely linked to the "Heath" portrayal of him then the "Jack" portrayal.

Well then, as the great detectives would say...

"case closed"

(FUN with PUNS FTW!)[/quote]
That may be so, but the character has had various incarnations in the past, and certain people have attatchments to various incarnations. I remember the Joker of the earlier cartoons, the ones that appeared in the 90's, after the first Batman film was released with Nicholson, so I have an attachment to that incarnation of the Joker.

However, that does not weigh heavily on my analysis. I haven't seen the older Batman movie in quite some time, but this debate has made me want to revisit it.

Further analysis notwithstanding, I will say that Heath Ledger's portrayal of the Joker left much to be wanted, as his screen time was extremely limited. Only one scene left an impression. It was well acted, but poorly written, imo. The Joker did not particularly frighten/creep me out in any respect.

As far as a character who really gets under one's skin, the yellow dude in Sin City and the Cannibal kid in the same film really, really, really creep me out, to a far greater degree than The Joker.[/quote]

Well, Sin city is gotham squared. So of course those guys would be alot more creepy. That's what happens when u put together great directing and acting.

Anyway, i think your idealization of Jack Nickelson led you to over analyze the movie. Thus you weren't able to enjoy the movie like the rest of us. I mean seriously, can you really say your not biased?

That's a pointless question. Everyone thinks their unbiased.

[color=#ff0000]"“That's the difference between me and the rest of the world!
Happiness isn't good enough for me! I demand euphoria!” "[/color]

Quote from Calliber

Quote from ahoaho

Quote from Calliber

[quote=Badat][quote=Calliber][quote=sandman1008]^ Correction. Michael Keaton was Batman in the first Batman movie. And although the Joker in the Dark Knight wasn't true to the comic book after the whole censorship thing, it was true to what the Joker was in the original Batman story (it was dark and gritty like the Dark Knight was).

Batman first appeared in the"Detective Comics" issue #27 where he solved cases, beat up the bad guys, and left just in time for the police to soak up the glory. This comic was intended for an older audience, but the introduction of robin in the stories later on brought interest from younger readers. The batman comic became it's own comic, that would trade stories back and forth between batman and detective comics.

So yes, the world portrayed in "The dark night" is true to the comic book. not sure if joker even existed during the time when batman was part of the detective comics, but if he did, then I'm pretty sure Heath's Joker would've been very accurate.

yes, yes he did exist in detectives comics, in-fact he was the first villain in Batman #1, in which he is portrayed as a mass murderer with clown make-up more closely linked to the "Heath" portrayal of him then the "Jack" portrayal.

Well then, as the great detectives would say...

"case closed"

(FUN with PUNS FTW!)[/quote]
That may be so, but the character has had various incarnations in the past, and certain people have attatchments to various incarnations. I remember the Joker of the earlier cartoons, the ones that appeared in the 90's, after the first Batman film was released with Nicholson, so I have an attachment to that incarnation of the Joker.

However, that does not weigh heavily on my analysis. I haven't seen the older Batman movie in quite some time, but this debate has made me want to revisit it.

Further analysis notwithstanding, I will say that Heath Ledger's portrayal of the Joker left much to be wanted, as his screen time was extremely limited. Only one scene left an impression. It was well acted, but poorly written, imo. The Joker did not particularly frighten/creep me out in any respect.

As far as a character who really gets under one's skin, the yellow dude in Sin City and the Cannibal kid in the same film really, really, really creep me out, to a far greater degree than The Joker.[/quote]

Well, Sin city is gotham squared. So of course those guys would be alot more creepy. That's what happens when u put together great directing and acting.

Anyway, i think your idealization of Jack Nickelson led you to over analyze the movie. Thus you weren't able to enjoy the movie like the rest of us. I mean seriously, can you really say your not biased?

That's a pointless question. Everyone thinks their unbiased.
[/quote]
I didn't idealize anyone. I said which version of the Joker I grew up with. I found that while Ledger portrayed an insane killer very well, I wasn't drawn into the movie because the movie itself was inferior, based on the writing, the pacing, and the other actors. Since the Joker had very little screen time, I found myself truly unable to fully judge or analyze Ledger's performance as Joker. I think for a movie that is two and a half hours long, the foil character should get more than 30-45 minutes of screen time.

Bale as Batman was mediocre at best. Not saying he did a particularly bad job, just that he did alright, but there were certain things that put me off.

Furthermore, your statement on Sin City only reifies my analysis. When compared to other current films, The Dark Knight leaves much to be wanted. I would not see this movie again, like I would with, say, Iron Man.

Good movie, but not great, as everyone is saying. I call a spade a spade, and that's my opinion.

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I never found Ledger scary as the Joker, he was fucked up but not scary. For me for a Villain to be scary he has to know what he is doing is wrong, be in full control of his mental faculties for the most part, have some reasoning as to why he can kill with impunity and not feel guilt. He still has to retain some element of humanity to be scary. That is why I never find horror film killers scary... Examples of Villains that scared me to some extent Chigurh(No Country for Old Men) and John Doe(7).

Quote from Rob1988

I never found Ledger scary as the Joker, he was fucked up but not scary. For me for a Villain to be scary he has to know what he is doing is wrong, be in full control of his mental faculties for the most part, have some reasoning as to why he can kill with impunity and not feel guilt. He still has to retain some element of humanity to be scary. That is why I never find horror film killers scary... Examples of Villains that scared me to some extent Chigurh(No Country for Old Men) and John Doe(7).

O yes. Anton Chigurh was a true OG. I mean it.

He sort of reminded me of Two Face. Just with one face... and that one face kills.

[color=#ff0000]"“That's the difference between me and the rest of the world!
Happiness isn't good enough for me! I demand euphoria!” "[/color]

Quote from Calliber

Quote from Rob1988

I never found Ledger scary as the Joker, he was fucked up but not scary. For me for a Villain to be scary he has to know what he is doing is wrong, be in full control of his mental faculties for the most part, have some reasoning as to why he can kill with impunity and not feel guilt. He still has to retain some element of humanity to be scary. That is why I never find horror film killers scary... Examples of Villains that scared me to some extent Chigurh(No Country for Old Men) and John Doe(7).

O yes. Anton Chigurh was a true OG. I mean it.

He sort of reminded me of Two Face. Just with one face... and that one face kills.

On the subject of Two Face- Tommy Lee Jones>Aaron Eckhart.

Listen here
Livin just to keep from dyin
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Quote from Rob1988

I never found Ledger scary as the Joker, he was fucked up but not scary. For me for a Villain to be scary he has to know what he is doing is wrong, be in full control of his mental faculties for the most part, have some reasoning as to why he can kill with impunity and not feel guilt. He still has to retain some element of humanity to be scary. That is why I never find horror film killers scary... Examples of Villains that scared me to some extent Chigurh(No Country for Old Men) and John Doe(7).

O yes. Anton Chigurh was a true OG. I mean it.

He sort of reminded me of Two Face. Just with one face... and that one face kills.

On the subject of Two Face- Tommy Lee Jones>Aaron Eckhart.

Agreed
Eckhart's Two Face was just some angsty revenge filled douche. While Tommy Lee Jones actually portrayed Two Face as a psycho which he is 😛

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Quote from Calliber

[quote=Rob1988]I never found Ledger scary as the Joker, he was fucked up but not scary. For me for a Villain to be scary he has to know what he is doing is wrong, be in full control of his mental faculties for the most part, have some reasoning as to why he can kill with impunity and not feel guilt. He still has to retain some element of humanity to be scary. That is why I never find horror film killers scary... Examples of Villains that scared me to some extent Chigurh(No Country for Old Men) and John Doe(7).

O yes. Anton Chigurh was a true OG. I mean it.

He sort of reminded me of Two Face. Just with one face... and that one face kills.

On the subject of Two Face- Tommy Lee Jones>Aaron Eckhart.

Agreed
Eckhart's Two Face was just some angsty revenge filled douche. While Tommy Lee Jones actually portrayed Two Face as a psycho which he is 😛 [/quote]
I'm currently remaining undecided on Two Face. This IS his origin, as given by the comic books, before he's succumbed to multiple personality disorder.

If he is alive, like I think, then his next appearance will be the deciding factor for whether he's a good two-face. That will be the appearance in which he talks between his good face and evil face, where he's obsessed with the number two, and where he is an actual villain.

This signature was recovered from Hades to serve in my rotting armies.

The storylines are different and even the time period is different. I dunno how with such major differences one can compare these two jokers. Each were fabulous for the roles played for the movie.
On the other hand " Why so Serious!" 😀