damn you guys are going really deep aha. Anyways just wanted to say, everyone has their own set of values and own views of what is right or wrong, brave or cowardly. For me personally telling the teacher about being bullied is not an unhonourable thing to do because I value honor a lot. It was just like a hidden agreement amongst our fellow student body that what happened between students stayed among the students. Ofcourse if something major happened teachers would be reported but we considered fights and bullying to be of the minor sort atleast me personally because if the individual wanted to, he could solve it just by himself by taking a stand for himself. Someone also said something about having a verbal argument with the bully instead of violence. Umm what if the bully decides to use his fists, its not like he will have a verbal argument with you just because you said so or something. Bullies will tend to target people with weak mindsets and people who don't fight back or anything, once you fight back and they experience some level of pain they will most likely stop. hey telling the teacher might be the right thing to do for you but damn for me thats just not honourable...but again thats just my opinion.

Angel Beats--best anime of the 2010 spring season

Quote from 狂気

Here I understand you well. It's human nature that you don't want to do anything "wrong". Even when people are proud of being "evil" and doing "bad things", in their mind the laws of the society aren't truly "good". Their idea is that what they do is right even if it's labeled "evil" and things that are labeled as "good" might be wrong.

Everyone has faults and everyone does things they don't really believe in, but truly accepting that it wrong is a great step towards doing it right. I'm not judging people based on their bad or weak traits. Everyone has weaknesses. If you see some drunk bum sleeping in the park, the first thing that comes into many people's mind is disgust, and even if the drunken bum is someone too weak to try harder in life, it's not something he should be judged for. We don't know his circumstances. It could be that most of who click their tongue and look away when they walk past him would have even committed suicide if their life had been like his.

Oh. Yes, you were being a bit vague. The reason it sounded like you were advocating it was due to it being set as a forbidden option. Actually, I did read your earlier posts, I already knew you were saying to go the peaceful way, I was disputing you referring to getting help as "cowardice" mainly.

I actually do believe people should stand on their own and be strong. When I have kids, male and female alike will be taught to fight, think for themselves, and properly analyse things, I want them to question what people tell them inc myself. I find the whole sheep & herd mentality to be quite ugly; where people forgo their individuality to take shelter in the group and stop thinking and doing stuff for themselves.

I do not believe the expansions were that illogical when operating on the stance of opening up whether it was cowardice or not though. I know from experience that a lot of teens round here carry knives in the waists, so even a teen could kill an adult. That is why I say it is not worth the risk and is better to just get assistance.
Sure to can try empathize with the other person, I have even tried it before, unfortunately mediation is not a great tactic when they feel they are in power, you need neutral ground, and mediating with every idiot you meet will waste your time, better to get them expelled.

I do not believe in concepts such as "evil" or "good", at least not universal versions. Everybody has a motivation for doing something, a murderer might do it just because they lack empathy or because they have some problem, to them it is not "evil" though. Those things tend to change depending on your perception, one thing to one is good, to another it can be bad. Really everything is just grey or w/e. Nobody really wishes a happy life on somebody they dislike though, nor do they want to understand somebody who is a jerk to them, they just want that person to die, most will not admit it though, but that is the common case.

"You can't say a murderer is innocent just because he's one because of the way he was raised."
Some people do have that mentality. The whole, nothing you ever do can be your fault because your personality was determined at birth and how you were raised by people, so if they had raised you differently then you would have acted differently. Then it goes back to your parent's parents, in a whole system of predetermined action. I remember somebody saying though, if we go around like that then we will eventually be blaming some amoeba to avoid responsibility.

This is entirely off topic, but in this way of thinking, even if people are responsible of their actions, perhaps if what they do wrong is due to something that happened in their past, it could be corrected and they could be healed, instead of putting them in jail (assuming that there exist such things as ethics, otherwise "healing" them would be the same as re-educating them).

A debate is a debate, as long as views are exchanged then I do not care, it it akin to the topic anyway.
I do not believe prisons do re-educate people at all. They are about removing a segment of dregs from a community (society) so the rest can go on in peace, people pay taxes to keep the problem out of the way. You can find some people locked up for ages, when released they kill, torture, etc again and then their are others who profess they have changed.
I do not believe prison on its own is an answer, if it were about rehabilitation then it would be more orientated around dealing with underlying problems, but that would cost more and be fruitless in a lot of events.

I think bullies are quite weak people usually, mentally weak. I find people that have had to struggle or strive for something and yet persevere are the strong type of people.
I do not feel disgusts upon seeing a homeless person, I use to feel sorry for them when I was younger and wished I could help them. When one sees it frequently though one becomes somewhat jaded to it. Eventually I just decided "One can not bear the weight of the world's problems, in trying to do so then one will be crushed".
A lot of people choose to live that way though, it is up to them, some have no choice. I think humans lack empathy towards each other a lot because we see so many people flash by each day, but we do not really have much connection with them. In that way people just become objects to an extent.

Well before I rant off on something. 狂気 have you ever been bullied, if so how did you solve it? I steadily grew to avoid violence as I got older due to the risk of death or serious injury. Generally I do not back down if somebody attempts to intimidate me though and I do not believe they have a knife or something.

Quote from Peep

Well before I rant off on something. 狂気 have you ever been bullied, if so how did you solve it? I steadily grew to avoid violence as I got older due to the risk of death or serious injury. Generally I do not back down if somebody attempts to intimidate me though and I do not believe they have a knife or something.

I just woke up, and about to go back to sleep, so I'll just shortly comment this one (no, I don't wake up in the middle of my sleep to surf on the internet, just forgot to turn the computer off).

I don't think I look especially weak or easy to bully, but I don't think I look strong or hard to bully either, but no one's ever tried to bully me. Or possibly is, but I've always kinda lived in my own world, so I don't always notice those things. Besides, there wasn't many wannabe bad guys where I grew up, all the delinquents were strong to at least some degree. And I got along with them well too. I often hung out with boys many years older than me, perhaps I learned to look bad-ass from them or something. Oh and none of them were the kinda people to bully anyone, really.

I've come across some idiots too, and once there were few boys (some year or two older than me) who were bullying my friend (I have no idea why anyone would like to bully such a pretty girl in the first place) so I kinda broke one of those boy's nose (at least his shirt was all bloody). I guess they were embarrassed or shocked, since they ran away then (I can't imagine anyone being afraid of me).

I don't think anyone wants to bully someone who isn't bullyable (is that even a word?). Bullying is emotional abuse. Even if it's physical, it's just fighting unless it effects the "victim" emotionally. I'm someone who'd rather die as a strong person than live as a weak person (though if you're weak, then it's better to live and become strong or you'll just die as a weak person instead).

Also, I do know how to fight does martial arts for fighting (among other reasons)

Far-off places with sweet sounding names.

Quote from 狂気

Quote from Peep

Well before I rant off on something. 狂気 have you ever been bullied, if so how did you solve it? I steadily grew to avoid violence as I got older due to the risk of death or serious injury. Generally I do not back down if somebody attempts to intimidate me though and I do not believe they have a knife or something.

I just waked up, and about to go back to sleep, so I'll just shortly comment this one (no, I don't wake up in the middle of my sleep to surf on the internet, just forgot to turn the computer off).

I don't think I look especially weak or easy to bully, but I don't think I look strong or hard to bully either, but no one's ever tried to bully me. Or possibly is, but I've always kinda lived in my own world, so I don't always notice those things. Besides, there wasn't many wannabe bad guys where I grew up, all the delinquents were strong to at least some degree. And I got along with them well too. I often hung out with boys many years older than me, perhaps I learned to look bad-ass from them or something. Oh and none of them were the kinda people to bully anyone, really.

I've come across some idiots too, and once there were few boys (some year or two older than me) who were bullying my friend (I have no idea why anyone would like to bully such a pretty girl in the first place) so I kinda broke one of those boy's nose (at least his shirt was all bloody). I guess they were embarrassed or shocked, since they ran away then (I can't imagine anyone being afraid of me).

I don't think anyone wants to bully someone who isn't bullyable (is that even a word?). Bullying is emotional abuse. Even if it's physical, it's just fighting unless it effects the "victim" emotionally. I'm someone who'd rather die as a strong person than live as a weak person (though if you're weak, then it's better to live and become strong or you'll just die as a weak person instead).

Also, I do know how to fight does martial arts for fighting (among other reasons)

Another fine example of punching solving bullying problems.

If someone believes he's/she's strong enough to try this approach it's really easy to fix. A couple of months of exercise and training and you should be just fine. Physical strenght is one of the easiest things to improve.

Quote from Table

Also telling the teacher or something is not an option as its pretty obvious what will happen. The teacher will scold him and force him to apologize and nothing else will result. The bullying will just get worse.

:-(

Hello, fellow forum member.
I have an advice for you that could be just the right one.
You have mentioned that you are too weak and could get headlocked in a position if you were to fight him. The best thing to do is catch him alone in a public place, possibly canteen or outside the school with many people around. If you come up to him looking like you have something important to say to him, then when you are close enough and see an opening on his front, quickly Jab him in the throat once, not too strong, but strong enough. It takes only so much that a 12 year old could kill an adult man, due to the throat being his vital point on the body. This is the simpliest method that would leave him choking on the ground for several minutes, while at it you could kick him a few times just to emphasize his uselesness and use this as an advantage to warn him not to come close to you again. Make sure you jab him in his Adam's apple, this could seriously scar him for life. Anyway, that's what I would do if i was physically weaker than my opponent...

Hope this helps. May the grace be with you young warrior.
Stay strong, fighting is never wrong, no pain no gain.

[img]http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/6069/angelh3artsignature.jpg[/img]
THE ONLY THING I FAIL AT IS FAILING

Quote from angelh3art

Quote from Table

Also telling the teacher or something is not an option as its pretty obvious what will happen. The teacher will scold him and force him to apologize and nothing else will result. The bullying will just get worse.
>:-(

Hello, fellow forum member.
I have an advice for you that could be just the right one.
You have mentioned that you are too weak and could get headlocked in a position if you were to fight him. The best thing to do is catch him alone in a public place, possibly canteen or outside the school with many people around. If you come up to him looking like you have something important to say to him, then when you are close enough and see an opening on his front, quickly Jab him in the throat once, not too strong, but strong enough. It takes only so much that a 12 year old could kill an adult man, due to the throat being his vital point on the body. This is the simpliest method that would leave him choking on the ground for several minutes, while at it you could kick him a few times just to emphasize his uselesness and use this as an advantage to warn him not to come close to you again. Make sure you jab him in his Adam's apple, this could seriously scar him for life. Anyway, that's what I would do if i was physically weaker than my opponent...

Hope this helps. May the grace be with you young warrior.
Stay strong, fighting is never wrong, no pain no gain.

+1

either that or kick/knee to the nuts.

Quote from angelh3art

Hello, fellow forum member.
I have an advice for you that could be just the right one.
You have mentioned that you are too weak and could get headlocked in a position if you were to fight him. The best thing to do is catch him alone in a public place, possibly canteen or outside the school with many people around. If you come up to him looking like you have something important to say to him, then when you are close enough and see an opening on his front, quickly Jab him in the throat once, not too strong, but strong enough. It takes only so much that a 12 year old could kill an adult man, due to the throat being his vital point on the body. This is the simpliest method that would leave him choking on the ground for several minutes, while at it you could kick him a few times just to emphasize his uselesness and use this as an advantage to warn him not to come close to you again. Make sure you jab him in his Adam's apple, this could seriously scar him for life. Anyway, that's what I would do if i was physically weaker than my opponent...

Hope this helps. May the grace be with you young warrior.
Stay strong, fighting is never wrong, no pain no gain.

Complete nonsense. I have hit people in the throat before, same type of nonsense that inexperienced people spout like "Hitting the nose will send bones into the brain and kill somebody". Which is funny because the nose is composed of cartilage; a soft flexible material. Go read some anatomy books.

Quote from Peep

Complete nonsense. I have hit people in the throat before, same type of nonsense that inexperienced people spout like "Hitting the nose will send bones into the brain and kill somebody". Which is funny because the nose is composed of cartilage; a soft flexible material. Go read some anatomy books.

There is a bone in the nose, but indeed most of it is cartilage. That said it is possible to kill someone by striking them in the nose, as with anywhere on the body, you just need enough force to do so. With enough force it'll cause internal bleeding, in this case to the brain, which is indeed lethal if not treated.

and hitting him in the throat with disable him temporarily, but most likely he'll just be pissed off the next time he sees you because you embarrassed him. Not the most effective way to deal with them. When I had bullies I just ignored them, the fun of it was gone so they lost interest.

Quote from Peep

Sure to can try empathize with the other person, I have even tried it before, unfortunately mediation is not a great tactic when they feel they are in power, you need neutral ground, and mediating with every idiot you meet will waste your time, better to get them expelled.

It might be better to get them expelled depending on the people in question. But I wouldn't ever say that's the best option. Even if there's no one who could make the right choice, that's no reason to say that there is no such choice. Of course judging people who made a wrong choice then would be hypocritical, but saying telling yourself you made the right choice or that you had no other choice (especially if you didn't even try) would be just meaningless attempt to justify your actions instead of admitting that you're no buddha or saint.

I often hear people who got beaten up by number of people saying that there was nothing they could do, that no one could have do anything because there it was 10 vs. 1. Somehow it's embarrassing for them to admit that they were weaker than (not ten people, but) the group of ten people. So if there was actually someone who could have beaten those ten, it would be an embarrassment for them. That's like saying that if it was physically possible for them to beat those that group, it they would have done so.

If it turns out there's someone like that after all, then they make that person look like some special kind of person. Even though they could just say "I'm just not strong enough to beat a group of ten people". Because after all, why should they be unless they train for it diligently? Wouldn't it be more embarrassing for those that group to lose to a single person?

Isn't it also a weakness lie to yourself and other just not to appear weak?

Quote from Peep

I do not believe prison on its own is an answer, if it were about rehabilitation then it would be more orientated around dealing with underlying problems, but that would cost more and be fruitless in a lot of events.

But is not putting that effort for those few it might help not against what many societies claim to be? And wouldn't it be better to try to research it so that it might become clearer how to help them so that it would actually work on more of them, not just a few. But even this doesn't actually solve anything, though it might help people.

Isn't the first step in trying to solve a problem to find out the reason for it. If your roof is leaking, do you solve it by putting buckets to the places it's leaking from when it rains? Of course that's important too not to let your floor and furniture get wet, but instead of continuing to do it forever it's necessary to fix the roof to stop further leaking. And I'm not convinced that banning some video games is going to do any more good than the prisons are—it wasn't any better in the time when there wasn't yet video games anyways.

Quote from Pedro Boh

Another fine example of punching solving bullying problems.

But it's not.

Quote from kaerfehtdeelb

here is a bone in the nose, but indeed most of it is cartilage. That said it is possible to kill someone by striking them in the nose, as with anywhere on the body, you just need enough force to do so. With enough force it'll cause internal bleeding, in this case to the brain, which is indeed lethal if not treated.

and hitting him in the throat with disable him temporarily, but most likely he'll just be pissed off the next time he sees you because you embarrassed him. Not the most effective way to deal with them. When I had bullies I just ignored them, the fun of it was gone so they lost interest.

It's not about force. Of course you need a certain amount of force to do it, but you don't need to be very strong. But it's not very easy, especially since the other person will at least to some degree avoid the blow—hits to the face are the easiest to react against because they're in direct line of your vision. And if you do it right, the person will die immediately. People have died from it accidentally, but the changes for it to succeed even when done on purpose are pretty low unless you've trained to do it.

Hitting the throat has the disadvantage that you only need to move just a bit out of the way and it won't work. Using fingers is stupid unless they're strong enough for it (esp. in case you accidentally hit something else than the throat). Some special techniques for it might not be that hard, but they still require training. Also the point that it won't solve anything is good. If you're going to use cheap tricks, possibly the only way to stop the bullying in such a case is permanently disabling them (which still doesn't take away the chance of revenge) or killing them.

Far-off places with sweet sounding names.

Quote from kaerfehtdeelb

There is a bone in the nose, but indeed most of it is cartilage. That said it is possible to kill someone by striking them in the nose, as with anywhere on the body, you just need enough force to do so. With enough force it'll cause internal bleeding, in this case to the brain, which is indeed lethal if not treated.

and hitting him in the throat with disable him temporarily, .

You could drop a mountain on somebody's arm, the likelihood is that it will not kill them, the blood loss or shock might, but not the arm damage. Besides those two factors, you only die if it was a vital organ.
The force required to kill somebody by punching is more so the average person can casually emit, although it can be done. Also, if somebody is stupid enough to injure somebody that badly over playground stuff than they may be convicted of intention to commit grievous bodily harm, self defence laws only recognize proportionate force.

Quote from 狂気

But is not putting that effort for those few it might help not against what many societies claim to be? And wouldn't it be better to try to research it so that it might become clearer how to help them so that it would actually work on more of them, not just a few. But even this doesn't actually solve anything, though it might help people.

Isn't the first step in trying to solve a problem to find out the reason for it. If your roof is leaking, do you solve it by putting buckets to the places it's leaking from when it rains? Of course that's important too not to let your floor and furniture get wet, but instead of continuing to do it forever it's necessary to fix the roof to stop further leaking. And I'm not convinced that banning some video games is going to do any more good than the prisons are—it wasn't any better in the time when there wasn't yet video games anyways.

Your first points were worded confusingly so I will choose this one instead.
You are thinking on a small scale. Why should people who are victims of crimes be taxed more money to pay for their abuser's comfort and treatment? It odes not matter if a few criminals are helped, prevention is easier anyway. Many criminals have been evaluated by psychologists, said they have reformed, then been let free. Guess what they did when they got out; murdered, stole, abducted, and were just a headache again. Rehabilitation programs generally do not work and are a waste of money. It is far more cost effective to keep people locked up permanently in most cases, but not all.

I would advocate killing most criminals off rather (in private not public) than having them be a burden and risk letting them get released, but that can also be expensive because there are all sorts of legal issues to go through first. Plus there are politic prisoners, etc, those people should not be touched. Putting child molesters etc to death is fine. Penal colonies sometimes work too.

Quote from 狂気

But it's not.

You said that fight was years ago, and yet you never found out "why somebody would want to bully somebody as pretty as her". You never actually bothered to ask? You do realize her being "pretty" does not equate she can do no wrong or that it is somehow synonymous with something good, For all you know she could have started stuff with the person and they were retaliating and thus the violence may have been a bad solution. That quotation might be misconstrued though, you might be saying that they were bullying here and you knew why but could not understand it.

Quote from Table

So thanks for all the suggestions today ended up being pretty interesting.
Today he came up to me and was harassing me and started pushing me around. I was pretty pissed off and i asked him to stop repeatedly. One of his friends said something like leave him alone but he kept pushing me and i was so pissed off that i punched him as hard as i could in the nose when he tried to push me again

He was really shocked and then his nose started bleeding heaps it was pretty scary i thought i had seriously injured him. Anyways after the nurse said it wasn't anything serious we both had to go to the coordinators office in which i told him about how i was being bullied repeatedly by him. We both got scolded and he got sent home and i was asked to stay for a bit. The coordinator then told me about how this student was having a lot of problems at home and that i should try and be more understanding. He didn't go into specifics but apparantly his parents are getting divorced or something :S
In the end i was let off without getting into any trouble but my parents were notified and when i got home they gave me a big talk about bullying etc.

So hopefully he might think first before trying something again? Even if it ends up making things worse i feel alot better now that i've paid him back for what he did and i guess i learned im stronger than i thought ^^

Nice 😀 . You just show him that you can stood up and show who you really are. Sometimes you need to resort to violence just to show you can fight. But not a good idea if you are going to use it in a bad way.

About his attitude towards you, maybe he's jealous of you. Even though you are weak, you are showing some signs that you have a happy life and he's envy of that. Apologize from what you did to him, and make friends. He need a friend just like you, just to ease burden of his problems. And maybe you can talk about it. Ask and give advice.

Wow, seriously. You can't make this stuff up. LoL.

Did anyone notice that author of the thread stopped responding like 3 pages ago?

lol i haven't been on much unfortunately busy with school. Nothing much else has happened between me and him so far he's pretty much just ignored me which is great ^^

Quote from Peep

You are thinking on a small scale. Why should people who are victims of crimes be taxed more money to pay for their abuser's comfort and treatment? It odes not matter if a few criminals are helped, prevention is easier anyway. Many criminals have been evaluated by psychologists, said they have reformed, then been let free. Guess what they did when they got out; murdered, stole, abducted, and were just a headache again. Rehabilitation programs generally do not work and are a waste of money. It is far more cost effective to keep people locked up permanently in most cases, but not all

My point was exactly that. It doesn't work. But if it was made so that it actually worked, it might solve the problem, which is not to make criminals feel comfortable, but to make them regret what they did and never do so again. It's not about "justice", about punishing criminals, but making sure that such things don't happen again. It's not about paying for the benefit for the criminals, but for the whole community, and thinking about the future, not immediate, results. You can't expect to solve those things right away, it takes a lot of time. Of course keeping people locked up might be of benefit, but that shouldn't be thought as the final conclusion, since that way the situation 10 years or 100 years from now isn't any better.

Quote from Peep

I would advocate killing most criminals off rather (in private not public) than having them be a burden and risk letting them get released, but that can also be expensive because there are all sorts of legal issues to go through first. Plus there are politic prisoners, etc, those people should not be touched. Putting child molesters etc to death is fine. Penal colonies sometimes work too

That's like calling your enemy in the war "evil" and yourself "good". Unless you admit that there's not really evil and good, but they are just your "enemies" who should therefore be killed. Anyone can become a criminal. Anyone can murder a person, if just the circumstances lead to it. Unless you think that some people are born evil or that they are possessed by something evil (or something like that) it means that their environment has lead them to the point where they kill a person (thinking they're right, thinking there's no right, because they're crazy, because they're weak etc).

Judging a person (saying he's evil or just somehow worse or less qualified to life than others) by their act without knowing all their circumstances (which is impossible) is just hypocrisy. If on the other hand you just say that they are an inconvenience to you life, it is just selfishness. I'm not saying it's wrong. But at least branding yourself as "good" and "just" is. And that's what most people and many societies these days do. And even then it would be the best option to try to make a society where nothing leads people to murder (though I'm not saying it's completely possible).

And even if you believe that some people are born evil or are possessed or something, that's a religious view and therefore not qualified to be applied to society where there are countless different accepted religions with different views.

Also, pedophilia is a psychological disorder. In theory at least, psychological disorders can be fixed. And even if in reality they can't, perhaps if psychology was more well developed (since it's a relatively new field) they might.

Quote from Peep

Quote from 狂気

But it's not.

You said that fight was years ago, and yet you never found out "why somebody would want to bully somebody as pretty as her". You never actually bothered to ask? You do realize her being "pretty" does not equate she can do no wrong or that it is somehow synonymous with something good, For all you know she could have started stuff with the person and they were retaliating and thus the violence may have been a bad solution. That quotation might be misconstrued though, you might be saying that they were bullying here and you knew why but could not understand it.

Don't take everything seriously just because I don't use emoticons. As I said (did I?), that was years ago. I punched him because he was bullying my friend and I wanted to hurt him—I didn't really care why they were doing it. And what I was saying is that it's not a good example of violence stopping bullying. Besides, drawing conclusions that it actually solved anything is just speculation.

Quote from Astral100

Did anyone notice that author of the thread stopped responding like 3 pages ago?

Who cares about the author? We took over here.

Quote from Table

lol i haven't been on much unfortunately busy with school. Nothing much else has happened between me and him so far he's pretty much just ignored me which is great ^^

Just do what I told you to do or go away. As I said, we took over—you're not needed here. But seriously though, enjoy not being bullied (if it lasts). I just hope you realize that you didn't do a very good deed (possibly not even good for yourself in the long run).

Far-off places with sweet sounding names.

Quote from Table

lol i haven't been on much unfortunately busy with school. Nothing much else has happened between me and him so far he's pretty much just ignored me which is great ^^

Interesting. Same thing happened to me actually.
One guy in school tried to bully me, I wouldn't take it, and so we ended up fighting after school.
It was a heavy fight. We both had our faces in blood, torn clothes, bruises, dirt and so on.
I actually had heaver damage so I guess I lost this fight, but from then on whenever he saw me afterwards he would just ignore me completely. Like I am not even there.
I wonder whats with that. 🙂

Anyway, good job for standing up for yourself. Feels good doesn't it? 🙂