What am really againts is this attitude that as long as you have an half-assed excuse suicide is okay.
I will never encourage suicide or help anyone even if it's family.
Like i've said many time over it's an individuals chioce what they do with thier life. just because i don't like it and even hate the so called "reasons" people come up with to justify suicide isn't going to stop people from doing so. Am entitled to my opinions just as you are.

DO I think it's wrong? i don't know and could very much care less about it being right or wrong. What i hate is this very lame excuses that try to justify it. If you have never contemplated suicide seriously before then i will not be wrong in saying your the ignorant one that thinks that there're justifable reasons to commit this act.

what i also hate is those who commit suicide but before doing so decide to take others with them.
the world isn't perfect and if one was to really think deeply you would notice how much danger we are in every second of our life but isn't that also the thril of life? the fact that you could be broke one second and be rich in another.
you could be sick in bed one day and maybe the next you could be biking down a hill. life is full of possibilities the moment one becomes seriously persimistic is the same time one gives up. The is always an option and if there sn't one havethe courage and determination to make a way, rather than taking what i would consider ther easy way out.

It's an individuals chioce what they do, I just think suicide is a cowardly act, expecially when there is soo many other options. it's no diferent from dying in vain.

Sorry if I came out rude or insensitive, I JUST VALUE LIFE OVER EVERYTHING, cause if your alive you tell somene you love them, you can make someone's day more fulfilling, put a smile on someone, see things, laugh be angry, shout, cry, dance, sing, learn, search, and even smile, the list goes on and on and to throw all of this away for what? There are those who have been in hospitals for years and probably will stay there for life, but many have found and given themselves reasons to live and hope to continue. there are also those who risk everything for a better life, sure it doesn't always go how they plan, sure some end up dead but that hope that the sun will shine tomorrow and life will go on. Another day for full of surprises and chances. Isn't this something worth living for?

"If I weren't crazy, I'd be insane!"

[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/53/Jokerkillingjoke.png[/img]
"In my dream, the world had suffered a terrible disaster. A black haze shut out the sun, and the darkness was alive with the moans and screams of wounded people. Suddenly, a small light glowed. A candle flickered into life, symbol of hope for millions. A single tiny candle, shining in the ugly dark. I laughed and blew it out."

Quote from J-oker

Sorry if I came out rude or insensitive, I JUST VALUE LIFE OVER EVERYTHING, cause if your alive you tell somene you love them, you can make someone's day more fulfilling, put a smile on someone, see things, laugh be angry, shout, cry, dance, sing, learn, search, and even smile, the list goes on and on and to throw all of this away for what? There are those who have been in hospitals for years and probably will stay there for life, but many have found and given themselves reasons to live and hope to continue. there are also those who risk everything for a better life, sure it doesn't always go how they plan, sure some end up dead but that hope that the sun will shine tomorrow and life will go on. Another day for full of surprises and chances. Isn't this something worth living for?

For some people the answer is NO.

People have the right to end their life if they want to. Nobody should be forced to keep living if they don't want to FOR ANY REASON. The reason to commit suicide doesn't matter, it's personal. And i'ts nobody else's business.

I think the decision to end with your own life is an act of courage. I have people who commited suicide in my family and I know the circumstances weren't light at all. These persons had strong motives to die. I respect this.

And yes, I consider suicide to myself. I considered many times. It's very possible that will be my cause of death because once I feel I don't want to live anymore is my right to decide this.

Quote from daniyagami

Quote from J-oker

Sorry if I came out rude or insensitive, I JUST VALUE LIFE OVER EVERYTHING, cause if your alive you tell somene you love them, you can make someone's day more fulfilling, put a smile on someone, see things, laugh be angry, shout, cry, dance, sing, learn, search, and even smile, the list goes on and on and to throw all of this away for what? There are those who have been in hospitals for years and probably will stay there for life, but many have found and given themselves reasons to live and hope to continue. there are also those who risk everything for a better life, sure it doesn't always go how they plan, sure some end up dead but that hope that the sun will shine tomorrow and life will go on. Another day for full of surprises and chances. [u]Isn't this something worth living for?[/u]

For some people the answer is NO.

People have the right to end their life if they want to. Nobody should be forced to keep living if they don't want to FOR ANY REASON. The reason to commit suicide doesn't matter, it's personal. And i'ts nobody else's business.

I think the decision to end with your own life is an act of courage. I have people who commited suicide in my family and I know the circumstances weren't light at all. These persons had strong motives to die. I respect this.

And yes, I consider suicide to myself. I considered many times. It's very possible that will be my cause of death because once I feel I don't want to live anymore is my right to decide this.

Just because you lose your reason to live doesn't mean you gain a reason to die, but i do agree with you it is a personaly chioce i like i've said many time over, everyone has the right to do what ever they want. what am against is the reasons people give for commiting this act. after all I wouldn't want to force someone to live and just make thier life more meserable than it already is.
I will not commit suicide nor do i support it, but this doesn't mean i hate people for doing so. what i hate is thier motives and i hate those who decide to take others with them. there is one thing i do not agree. Suicide is not an act of bravery.

"If I weren't crazy, I'd be insane!"

[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/53/Jokerkillingjoke.png[/img]
"In my dream, the world had suffered a terrible disaster. A black haze shut out the sun, and the darkness was alive with the moans and screams of wounded people. Suddenly, a small light glowed. A candle flickered into life, symbol of hope for millions. A single tiny candle, shining in the ugly dark. I laughed and blew it out."

You shouldnt hate someone if they dont harm you in their decisions. That's why i advised you to get rid of your hatred so you can understand more the others.
Really, I feel it for what happened to you, but you cant judge the world based on your life alone: its much bigger than that.
If your father was a hero (let me call him like that, cause he truly was), that doesnt make all the ones who didnt win against suffering losers or cowards.
Just that: everyone is different.

Quote from Mamsmilk

Quote from x0mbiec0rp

Quote from Mamsmilk

I need a die with 2 sides.

That's known as a "coin".

Oh, thanks. Too much D&D.

I'm pretty sure, pretty God damn sure that I wasn't arguing what is right or wrong so you can cut down on some words from now on. All I proposed is what's your definition of cowardice and how it applies to other scenarios where some would deem the appropriate choice. You seem to have a very clear understanding of what is considered a reason and what is considered an act of justification. Would you give examples to really concretely separate these two so I can challenge your judgment?

You did not touch upon euthanasia and PAS correlating to cowardice. Unless you're going back to your main statement about how it just is because it's not a valid acceptable answer for you.

Why should I not try and complicate things? Should I be as narrow-minded as I was? I use to think your way, but not anymore. Why? 1) Just because is not just because and 2) take the time to spend some people with truly awkward scenarios and dilemmas to address your answer in the most appropriate fashion (in other words, go make a friend who's crippled badly, someone related, or along those lines).

Quote from J-oker

Don't try and complicate things. I'm getting tired of repeating this. If you contemplate suicide for too long the more you try to justify it. You can come up with millions of scenario's and methods but the fact of the matter is your denying your self reason and purpose to live.

Most of us don't have a conscious reason to live but at the same time we don't have a conscious reason to die so therefore we go through the motions of life.
If you ask me what life is then I will tell you in the physical form. Life is when both your mind and body is alive the moment one of these seizes to function then you are considered dead.

I might have strong views about suicide but I never once said it was right or wrong.
What are my views on euthanasia? I believe everyone has the right to do what they wish as long as they don't mess with others choices too much. People are entitled to both their choices and opinions just because I say its cowardice isn't going to stop anyone from committing suicide.

I'm pretty sure Josef Fritzl's daughter could have killed her self if she wanted but she held on for god knows how long and I'm pretty sure she is happy at least. The fact of the matter is you can say suicide is quickening of someone's lifespan, helping someone who is in pain, because there is nothing to live for BUT THIS ARE ALL EXCUSES TO JUSTIFY SUICIDE and not reasons.

There is not a legitimate reason to commit suicide therefore those who commit suicide are coward who are just escaping life through death.

PS - Somehow I feel like this is elementary due to the frequent uses of the words "just" and "because". Even more when they're combined together with no valid explanation in detail. Hell, it doesn't even get me thinking of the answer is "just because" because there's nothing to challenge. Other than it's the way it is.

It's natural to contemplate death as an escape in our worst times, but surviving it's what makes us happy some time later.
I knew a kid that jumped out of a building because his parents didn't let him go to a concert, a girl who almost did the same because her boyfriend left her but her father caught her by a foot literally, another kid who hanged himself because he got into trouble with the local kid mob, and some emo kid who cut his wrists and left a letter written in blood to his girlfriend. All of these were stupid, imbecile kids, it's a good thing they died, at least they didn't passed the genes. I understand certain cases where life is worst than hell and death is considered a blessing, those people have strong reasons to want to end their lives, but most people that commit suicide are just a 🤢 holes who should never have been born.

The road I walk is paved in gold to glorify my platinum soul

Quote from Blame_me

but most people that commit suicide are just a 🤢 holes who should never have been born.

Statistics, pweeease? :3

Quote from Mamsmilk

Quote from x0mbiec0rp

Quote from Mamsmilk

I need a die with 2 sides.

That's known as a "coin".

Oh, thanks. Too much D&D.

Statistics, pweeease? :3

my bad, what i meant to say was 'most people who attempt suicide' but anyway, i don't even know of any statistics like that (it should be hard since there are only detailed records about people who had some disease), but how about making one now? :3 know anyone who tried to kill themselves and why?

The road I walk is paved in gold to glorify my platinum soul

Quote from Blame_me

Statistics, pweeease? :3

my bad, what i meant to say was 'most people who attempt suicide' but anyway, i don't even know of any statistics like that (it should be hard since there are only detailed records about people who had some disease), but how about making one now? :3 know anyone who tried to kill themselves and why?

What you should have meant to say is 'some people who attempt suicide'. You don't have the necessary information to determine anything about 'most people who attempt suicide'. Asking a couple people on a forum board won't give it to you either.

"It is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science."

ok, than based on what you can find in the internet (that's the best i have), suicide has increased a lot, the most frequent cause is depression followed by drugs addict, and the largest age group it's between teens and adults (this depends on the country). Now, in depression are included mental diseases and anything that makes you extremely sad, in both cases most patients receive medication, and sometimes the problem is actually physical, than there are people who don't receive assistance and... of they go.... but overall it's the inability to deal with sadness that causes suicide.
Now for my point of view:
either there is some mean bug on the air or more people are getting sadder OR people can't coupe with sadness nowadays, plus if i remember correctly, i was pretty stupid and annoying in my teens.. as all my friends where. Now, let's do the maths: stupid kid+ unstable phase+inability to coupe+ suicide is the trend nowadays= stupid kid who suicides. Fun fact, the biggest rate of suicide is in Japan, usually in executives and workers, because of business failing, or lets remember the big crash ->people flying of the window<- they all had some mental illness? no, so what was the non-stupid reason to kill themselves? Concluding my point of view, suicide is sometimes biological, it happens in a fair amount of species, but in our case we suppress the normal rate by far because of stupid impulses. I can only evaluate based on what i know, which is my personal experience and what i learn.

God! never wrote so much 🤢

The road I walk is paved in gold to glorify my platinum soul

That non-stupid reason you are looking for is called stress and anxiety, both of which can and more often than not, lead to depression.

I spent a few years working on a crisis hotline for a hospital, though mostly for detox, with drug addicts and alcoholics. But I often had to answer phones for the behavioral health center, which meant I spent a lot of time talking to people going through depression and other mental disorders, as well as people who were suicidal. Yeah, sometimes it felt contrived, especially with the teenagers who were calling because their parents wouldn't buy them something, or were grounding them. But 9 times out of 10, the people calling and wanting help had legitimate problems. I still vividly remember talking to a 13 year old girl, who not only was constantly bullied at school, but had to go home and be peeped at in the bathroom by her drunk dad. I have trouble believing she thought about killing herself because it was the cool thing to do.

You don't kill yourself because it is a trend, if you do, you have a mental illness.

[img]http://s4.tinypic.com/23jr85h.jpg[/img]

Quote from daniyagami

People have the right to end their life if they want to. Nobody should be forced to keep living if they don't want to FOR ANY REASON. The reason to commit suicide doesn't matter, it's personal. And i'ts nobody else's business.

I think the decision to end with your own life is an act of courage. I have people who commited suicide in my family and I know the circumstances weren't light at all. These persons had strong motives to die. I respect this.

... Really?

Sure people have the right to do what ever they want, like killing themselves, but that doesn't change the fact that it isn't right.

You think escapism is an act of courage? The fact that they ran away from the problem(s) instead of facing another day to deal with it cannot be praise worthy. It would then be cowardly, as J-oker so adamantly pointed out.

The only way I can think that suicide could possibly be justified is if it were a sure fire way to save someone else's life. But yet and still “The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one” - Wilhelm Stekel

[color=#ff0000]"“That's the difference between me and the rest of the world!
Happiness isn't good enough for me! I demand euphoria!” "[/color]

Hmph...as if it really matters anyway. One useless person or another going off or staying on, like machines. Life, yet another religion. Whether you find something worthwhile in going out of it, why not? If you don't want this stuff for now, why not? Images rule people even if reality exists. If you want to stay on, then why not? Yes, do what you can, do what you will, but remember all these things are based on beliefs. You believe something, you follow a belief. I find it hard enough to persuade myself that an image based more closely on a posited reality is better than one that is further away from that posited reality. People these days pretend that they have open minds. I don't really think they do. Not even sure that they should want to have "open" minds. Perhaps an open mind is more vulnerable to a spiritual infection. Perhaps, it weakens you. Not sure about that. Is each individual person useless? Do families matter? What does it mean for something to have a use? Is affecting the material world important? Do you want to live a less material life? Is that better? Does the end bring you closer to your beliefs? Are you going because of something called suffering? Something called pain? Concepts that lead to certain actions or thoughts. Maybe there really is something after...Who knows? I Freedom -seems- like a big joke and yet maybe it is just a concept. Concepts can be malleable and thus you have freedom. Thus you have "bravery". Such things are almost formless and seemingly groundless. As if I actually believed that most of you really believe what you say. As if you believe that I actually believe what I say.

Mu?

-Pakuen

I personally don't believe in people having their own lives (Lol long story :/) so i don't agree on people commiting suicide.

Honestly, I've thought of doing it many times. Even at a very young age, 13. I guess I was too young to even understand what life was, what suicide was...but I'm different.
The way I think clearly differs from those of others. I was a very intelligent child. Too intelligent. And that's not a good thing. My mom suffered from mental illness, and she went into some psychological rampage when I was 6. My younger sister and I were eating and she just came out from the kitchen and well...it's too heartbreaking to explain but you probably understand by now. She went under treatment for a few months and she's really fine now, but you can only imagine how that affected me as a child. And I guess ever since then, I changed completely. What child would have enjoyed running away from their own mother in fear ?

Oh yeah, I'm me. There's the bright, smart me and then just one small blow and then I'm not me anymore. I had anger problems, I would cry over stupid things. I was stressed all the time. I mean, to my family they saw no source for me to be so stressed all the time. We were wealthy, I did well in school, I had lots of friends, we were a happy family. I was happy, too, but I guess the stress got to me and then I was diagnosed with hypthyroidism and that just made everything worse.

I guess suicide should have been the last thing on my mind at such a young age, but who am I to blame? I don't understand myself either, but the important thing is that everything is perfectly fine now.
Suicide...it's not a pretty thing. I mean, I'd rather kill myself then have someone else kill me. That's a cruel way to think about it but oh well.

suicide is escapism. If you have considered suicide it is because you think that it is a better option and you wish to escape your problems. You wish to run away from it.

Now im not saying its wrong to run away. After all, who are we to decide that? However there are people with worse problems willing to survive never the less. In comparison, the person contimplating suicide is not as brave and perhaps weaker willed. Every human being that has felt like commiting suicide, feels like their problems are beyond repair or expirience a self loath beyond reason. At the end of the day...you are commiting suicide because you wish to escape or you love yourself enough to loath to the point of suicide.
(these are cases exzempt from medical problems)

So, basically what i am saying is that it might be natural to want to escape however this option is only for the weak hearted in my opinion. The strength to go on living is something no one else can teach you but it is definatly one of the biggest strenghts to have. To keep on living even though you have nothing and i mean nothing, butt neked trash and still have hope? I don't pity people like that, i respect people with iron hearts like that. Escaping is the easier option but it is your decision to make 😮

"take the fish out of the water and into to the fire". Suicide is never pretty.

[img]http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k528/fr33noob/on3winged9.jpg[/img]
I believe in letting people do as they wish, as do I myself. Sometimes, of course, what I wish to do is kill them and they do not wish to die. This gives life interest.
[img]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/26.jpg[/img]