I beleive in santa klaus and ufos. but 😔 god

Quote from Emeraldice

I beleive in santa klaus and ufos. but 😔 god

I believe in UFOs too! No I don't... I believe in aliens! If aliens think there's a god, me too! 😃

Mormons! w00t! w00t!

Yes, I do believe in God.

[img]http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc143/jjbanaNANA/pichu.gif[/img]
[color=orange]Click the Pokemon.[/color]

i do believe in god. even though many bad things had befallen on me at the same time. this is all just a test.

Let's get Kickin' ...whatever that means

Maybe...there are times that i find something that happened to me is of divine intervention yet i don't believe in God. I'm a Taoist by the way but in my mind I'm a Atheist

contradicting right? but its how i feel 😀

WARNING!!! SCIENTIFIC! MAY MAKE YOUR HEAD HURT!!!!!

This is mostly for TwilightDrgn and TheEgoist

I am a meteorology student, physiks and math are my minors.

The second law of thermodynamics does mean that entropie always increases, so that "struktur" is lost and eventually everything will be even. Applied to the universe the heat of the suns and so on is spread around untill everything is just really really cold. However, Energy is always conserved. The thing about always losing a percentage of the energy applys to idealized gas exspansions. It basicly forbids perpetual mobiles. These laws are used on idealized gases.

However, this "structur" loss doesn't really apply to all aspects of the real world.
Best example, liquids that are relativly unstruktured crystalize into crystals that are highly struktured.
Or imagine your Blood, its a mixture, but if you take some and put it in a tube and wait a while it divides up ino its different components. Just like dirt in water.

 There is something called self structurizing ( sorry, my english is ok, but it gets sort of thin when i start talking academics ) that can apply to bacteria, chemicals, organisms, ....  
 Imagine it sort of like this, you have two sort of viruses that eat each other. You spread them around evenly and wait to see what happens. ( lets call them virus a and b ) They start fighting each other, and in the end it is possible to have areas in which virus a won and areas were virus b won. So you went from an equal start to a checkerd end. Or a unstructured start to a structured end.

                              well, hope that helped

Quote from Incantia

I wish i could say I'm an atheist but I'm afraid the god(s) will kick my a*%.

Somehow I've managed to go years without being struck down by Thor and his hammer Mjollnir. I think it's safe to say that you can easily survive being an Atheist.

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/DarkSageRK/ReligiousTrash.png[/img]

"There is no God. God is only an imaginative being created by weak minded humans as hope" and that's all there is to it.

Quote from Mugen

"There is no God. God is only an imaginative being created by weak minded humans as hope" and that's all there is to it.

Well Mr. Marx I would like to see definite proof of that assumption based on the idea that the universe has no dualistic components to it at all, otherwise I think I won't discount this "opiate of the people". Like I said earlier their is no way for science, that depends entirely on observations to deal in the meta-physical.

Quote from Dark_Sage

Somehow I've managed to go years without being struck down by Thor and his hammer Mjollnir. I think it's safe to say that you can easily survive being an Atheist.

As fun as the idea of Odin riding Sleipnir his 8-legged horse around is, you can hardly compare the ideas of a polytheistic people to the position that some take: that an orderly, self-existent deity created the universe. Also I would like to point out that doing so is a fallacy known as a false analogy similar to a "apples and oranges" approach where just because there exists similarities it is a fallacy to assume that it is the same situation all around.

[color=red]Edit by mod: Do not double post[/color]

Quote from bully_jesus

WARNING!!! SCIENTIFIC! MAY MAKE YOUR HEAD HURT!!!!!

This is mostly for TwilightDrgn and TheEgoist

I am a meteorology student, physiks and math are my minors.

The second law of thermodynamics does mean that entropie always increases, so that "struktur" is lost and eventually everything will be even. Applied to the universe the heat of the suns and so on is spread around untill everything is just really really cold. However, Energy is always conserved. The thing about always losing a percentage of the energy applys to idealized gas exspansions. It basicly forbids perpetual mobiles. These laws are used on idealized gases.

However, this "structur" loss doesn't really apply to all aspects of the real world.
Best example, liquids that are relativly unstruktured crystalize into crystals that are highly struktured.
Or imagine your Blood, its a mixture, but if you take some and put it in a tube and wait a while it divides up ino its different components. Just like dirt in water.

 There is something called self structurizing ( sorry, my english is ok, but it gets sort of thin when i start talking academics ) that can apply to bacteria, chemicals, organisms, ....  
 Imagine it sort of like this, you have two sort of viruses that eat each other. You spread them around evenly and wait to see what happens. ( lets call them virus a and b ) They start fighting each other, and in the end it is possible to have areas in which virus a won and areas were virus b won. So you went from an equal start to a checkerd end. Or a unstructured start to a structured end.

                              well, hope that helped

thank you for your time but may I point out that both of your examples do as they do because of the collaboration of different charges and due to particle motion etc. that those liquids separate or in the other case that the dissolving solute leaves a crystallized structure behind. It has little to do with random chance, similar to saying that turning on a electrode will create an electromagnetic field and therefore pick-up iron filings is a perfect example of self-structuring. An example of self-structuring in a context that would allow for your argument would be if when you turn on the same electromagnet and the iron filings spelling the declaration of independence.

"Don't worry about the fine print. The soul consumption clause is never exorcised

Quote from TwilightDrgn

As fun as the idea of Odin riding Sleipnir his 8-legged horse around is, you can hardly compare the ideas of a polytheistic people to the position that some take: that an orderly, self-existent deity created the universe. Also I would like to point out that doing so is a fallacy known as a false analogy similar to a "apples and oranges" approach where just because there exists similarities it is a fallacy to assume that it is the same situation all around.

It's a fallacy to believe in the Norse gods?

Looks like the Valkyries won't be picking you up to go to Valhalla. 😔

Just FYI, their beliefs are just as valid as yours are. I also didn't actually post a logical fallacy, good sir. Please take more classes in college.

You're assuming that your religion is the correct one, even though the probability that Odin exists is the same as the probability that your god exists and the same probability that the Flying Spaghetti Monster exists. You should really stop being so arrogant.

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/DarkSageRK/ReligiousTrash.png[/img]

Quote from TwilightDrgn

An example of self-structuring in a context that would allow for your argument would be if when you turn on the same electromagnet and the iron filings spelling the declaration of independence.

I don't really know what you think my argument is, i was just trying to explain that self structuring is possible and happens. So i am pretty confused about the declaration of independence example.

Quote from Dark_Sage

Quote from TwilightDrgn

As fun as the idea of Odin riding Sleipnir his 8-legged horse around is, you can hardly compare the ideas of a polytheistic people to the position that some take: that an orderly, self-existent deity created the universe. Also I would like to point out that doing so is a fallacy known as a false analogy similar to a "apples and oranges" approach where just because there exists similarities it is a fallacy to assume that it is the same situation all around.

It's a fallacy to believe in the Norse gods?

Looks like the Valkyries won't be picking you up to go to Valhalla. 😔

Just FYI, their beliefs are just as valid as yours are. I also didn't actually post a logical fallacy, good sir. Please take more classes in college.

You're assuming that your religion is the correct one, even though the probability that Odin exists is the same as the probability that your god exists and the same probability that the Flying Spaghetti Monster exists. You should really stop being so arrogant.

First of all, I said nothing either corroborating nor contradicting beliefs only that you cannot compare deity with only one paradigm of deity and then try to apply it to the whole. Though one may be more popular or someone here might hold a certain belief to be true is up to the individual's decision.
Secondly as I have been saying, THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO WAY AT ALL TO TALK ABOUT PROBABILITY OF EXISTENCE IN THE META-PHYSICAL! Science and philosophy are limited entirely to mankind's experience, whereas the meta-physical is completely outside mankind's experience. You can attack me or anyone else with a logical argument but don't think likening the idea of deity to sentient spaghetti is any way of making you seem intelligent whatsoever.

[color=red]Edit by mod: DO NOT DOUBLE POST!![/color]

Quote from bully_jesus

Quote from TwilightDrgn

An example of self-structuring in a context that would allow for your argument would be if when you turn on the same electromagnet and the iron filings spelling the declaration of independence.

I don't really know what you think my argument is, i was just trying to explain that self structuring is possible and happens. So i am pretty confused about the declaration of independence example.

I am saying that in order for anything like my example there would have to have been intelligence in doing so, otherwise the probability of such an occurrence is statistically not only improbable but impossible.
Also, I am saying that your examples of self-structuring are flawed in this manner because the examples you gave are natural examples that act the way they do because of outside forces acting upon them, not because of random chance that these complex things happen randomly for no reason at all. Such reasoning would be like grinding all the objects in a dumpster into fine dust and coming back in billions of years and hoping that naturally occurring forces had made the contents into the computer you are looking at now.

"Don't worry about the fine print. The soul consumption clause is never exorcised

I never said, or at least never meant to say, that complex organisims/machine can assemble by random chance.

And the crystalization example doesn't need foreign forces, nor does the bacteria example. One relies on molecular characterisics, the other is a result of a dynamic system.

Quote from bully_jesus

I never said, or at least never meant to say, that complex organisims/machine can assemble by random chance.

And the crystalization example doesn't need foreign forces, nor does the bacteria example. One relies on molecular characterisics, the other is a result of a dynamic system.

I wasn't clear. I am sorry but what I was trying to state is what you just said you weren't saying. I apologize for the mix-up.

"Don't worry about the fine print. The soul consumption clause is never exorcised

no problem