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New Poll - What Came Before
This week's poll was suggested by Nekore. It's an alternate version of a poll we did at the beginning of the year. In case you don't know, sometimes an author will publish the prototype of a series they already finished. It's like the pilot episode of a TV series. Characters, plots, and names may be different, but the essence of the series is contained in this one chapter (since it's usually a oneshot).

You can submit poll ideas here
http://www.mangaupdates.com/showtopic.php?tid=3903

Previous Poll Results:
Question: When does ecchi content go too far (and should be considered hentai, too adult, or something else)?
Choices:
Nudity is fine, but sex is too much - votes: 801 (19.7%)
Anything more detailed than the basic outlines of the act is too vulgar - votes: 463 (11.4%)
Sex is fine as long as their privates are not shown - votes: 903 (22.2%)
There is no limit - votes: 1104 (27.1%)
Nothing bare should be shown that's below the waist - votes: 198 (4.9%)
Underwear should be as far as it goes - votes: 355 (8.7%)
"Skimpy" outfits should be as far as it goes - votes: 125 (3.1%)
Characters should be wearing (regular) clothes all the time - votes: 121 (3%)
There were 4070 total votes.
The poll ended: March 21st 2020

I'm baffled why people think ecchi has no limit. There's a definition for it...
Posted by lambchopsil on 
March 21st 6:34pm
Comments ( 20 )  
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Comments

» Otakuch on March 21st, 2020, 11:36am

I didn't understand it, too. If it has no limit why hentai exists?

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» HikaruYami on March 24th, 2020, 11:04am

Quote
I didn't understand it, too. If it has no limit why hentai exists?


Did you try reading the comments of the last post?

Ecchi is literally just a transliteration of "H" which is short for hentai. So hentai is the absolute same thing and English-speakers have constructed a completely artificial and frankly bullshit delineation between "ecchi" and "hentai". There is no true distinction in Japan.

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» Otakuch on March 24th, 2020, 12:06pm

When I posted it, no one had not posted.

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» HikaruYami on March 25th, 2020, 8:51am

Quote
When I posted it, no one had not posted.


I said the *comments* on *last* post. The previous one. The post about the creation of the ecchi poll. There was a huge discussion in which a couple people, including me, fully explained why ecchi as a word should not imply a limit.

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» dreamer00013 on March 21st, 2020, 2:05pm

Great, a normal poll again! Last one caused a bit of a ... discussion, but well, the previous poll was suggested by a troll, after all.

I actually like reading those prototypes, as you can see what changed prior to the series becoming, well, a series. So I wouldn't say it doesn't add anything new to the story, prototypes that are exactly like the first chapter or very alike don't usually get published, do they?

And sometimes, just sometimes, people love the oneshot more than the series it became and treasure it a lot more than the series it came from. Looking at you, Kagijin! (Even if you came before, not after the series!)

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» residentgrigo on March 21st, 2020, 2:17pm

I have a coda for last week's flaming car pile up. Have you ever asked yourself where all this institutionalized misogyny and outright pedophilia is coming from? I answer that very question in the link, with other posters continuing the mental exercise.
Japan - Why is sexualization of minors (fictional/non-fictional) in media so prevalent?:
https://www.resetera.com/threads/japan-why-is-sexualizati on-of-minors-fictional-non-fictional-in-media-so-prevalen t.175365/#post-29934132

You´ll never run out with reading material with me. That question was the reason I can back to the last poll, so there is a slight overlap. And always remember that 98% of the more extreme examples are the most niche things on earth even in Japan. The problem isn´t as bad as it seems but women themselves have it rough in Japan which is the real problem. Those linked Gender Gap Index statistics don´t lie and always hover consistently in the bottom 3rd.

It's great! Will read it. The often rough around the edges one-shots themselves may often not be "great" but knowing your roots is always of interest. Berserk has one too (one of his final exercises during his art college days). It won an award and Terra Formars used its prototype as a prequel to the 1st volume which in itself is a prologue to the main series. Prototypes all the way down!

Collections of US comics sometimes also feature material on how they got made. The AvP: Fire and Stone crossover event is an interesting example: https://avp.fandom.com/wiki/Life_and_Death
It came out between Prometheus and Alien: Covenant and was printed at a time when Alien/Predator non-film media were supposed to be "canon"... before Covenant ate the Alien canon alive. That comic had to have its premise changed as it flew too close to the sun but the original pitch and then some are in the collected edition.
The Aliens had to go from the Deacon´s from Prometues to the regular Xenomorphs:
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/avp/images/9/9c/AVP1. jpg
https://bloody-disgusting.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/ STK653009.jpg

Fire and Stone and it´s sequel Life and Death are better follow-ups to the themes of Prometheus than it´s film sequel (it´s ok) and feature one of the coolest Predators ever named Ahab. He hunts engineers. 30+ issues of fun sci-fi horror reading material for your current "stay-cation".
The Disney/Fox mess + Covenant makes a proper conclusion unlikely at the moment but it´s a nice journey and you only need to know the basic movie canon to keep up.

Video games like God of War 1, Metro 2034, or REmake 2 also have making of material s part of the unlockable extras and their YT channels that show how our playable sausage came to be.
So it´s not just movies, premium shows and some prestige comics that like to dive deep.
Look up the one for Resident Evil 7 even if RE ain´t your thing. Good stuff. You even get to see the minimum viable product prototype! What these are: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_viable_product

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» VawX on March 21st, 2020, 6:24pm

I really don't like the "No opinion" in a general question like this since it provides nothing and only skew the data mmm...

As for the answer I guess I'll read it if I found the main series is really interesting mmm...

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» lambchopsil on March 21st, 2020, 6:56pm

Quote from VawX
I really don't like the "No opinion" in a general question like this since it provides nothing and only skew the data mmm...

People like to complain when I don't give them a "No opinion" option

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» Transdude1996 on March 21st, 2020, 9:10pm

Quote from lambchopsil
People like to complain when I don't give them a "No opinion" option

Let them and ignore it. If a poll doesn't appeal, or isn't relevant, to me, I just don't select an option.

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» residentgrigo on March 21st, 2020, 9:41pm

No opinion makes sense here but it is lazily worded. Something like I have little experience with these would be a better option. That says something and can be evaluated. It may even work as a 5th option if you reword all of this a bit.

Pro tip: Don´t show up in your own poll till the end, you further bump the topic like that in the home stretch, and NEVER engage with the participants regarding their choices. Unless you don´t care about your poll and only want to manipulate the results or to stew up a mess.

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» Karonhioktha on March 21st, 2020, 10:35pm

It's great. Will read it.
I always enjoy seeing the concept art and ideas in the making of video games I play, and the same would likely exist for anime/manga I read. I haven't come across this happening in any series I've read/watched though, I have only really come across concept art and other extras.

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» Otakuch on March 22nd, 2020, 1:18am

Not just prototype, I will read Artbooks, Sketchbooks as well. Vagabond's Sketchbook was awesome.

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» calstine on March 22nd, 2020, 6:16am

No opinion. Some prototypes are great, most are mediocre, and a few are...better than the actual series, which makes me wish I'd never seen them because then I can't stop thinking about the what-ifs. I don't care if they're never published/scanlated, and I may or may not read it depending on my mood at the time, which sums up to "No opinion," I guess? Though, yeah, this option could have been worded better, like: "it depends on the series" or "ambivalent."

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» Suxinn on March 22nd, 2020, 10:48pm

Well, now I'm glad I made the decision to skip the last poll completely.

Anyway, if I enjoyed the series, I'll probably read and/or buy the prototype. I personally prefer to read prototypes before the actual serialization, but it's sometimes interesting to see how much the mangaka has improved since then.

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» Otakuch on March 23rd, 2020, 1:13am

Quote from Suxinn
Well, now I'm glad I made the decision to skip the last poll completely.

Anyway, if I enjoyed the series, I'll probably read and/or buy the prototype. I personally prefer to read prototypes before the actual serialization, but it's sometimes interesting to see how much the mangaka has i ...

Absolutely, true.

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» Katsono on March 23rd, 2020, 2:18pm

I'm still looking for the original Tower of God, if anyone ever reuploads it, so prototypes all the way and please don't erase them from the internet like TOG's author did.

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» Otakuch on March 23rd, 2020, 2:53pm

Maybe the author forces that who posted it, who knows?

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» kaloo on March 26th, 2020, 7:08pm

They're cool, but I almost never read them if they come out after.

I'll usually read the one shot if it's randomly in at the end of a volume though.

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» residentgrigo on March 27th, 2020, 1:30am

Can we keep the nonsense contained in its own poll and a legal distinction between age-restricted and all-ages sex publications exists (and not just in Japan). Unless the Japanese government just randomly decided to burn taxpayer´s money on a practical joke: https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2011-05-16/1st-mang a-to-be-restricted-by-revised-tokyo-law-listed

This stuff isn´t even what set the legal precedent but we all can google. There is also her feminist vulva "art" (it´s shit but it´s the thought that counts) that lead to an internationally publicized court case that argued the definition of pornography (how she avoided prison) and...: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megumi_Igarashi

Should we start a poll on whether the earth is flat or not? I have never been to space, so how can we know in the Marketplace of Ideas!

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