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New Poll - Humans at the Top
This fun poll was suggested by MewMan and inspired by Gantz. Apocalyptic in nature... By the way, I haven't watched it yet, but I heard that the movie 2012 was horrible.
You can discuss this poll on our forums here:
http://www.mangaupdates.com/showtopic.php?tid=20969
You can submit poll ideas here:
http://www.mangaupdates.com/showtopic.php?tid=3903
Previous Poll Results:
Question: What do you think of manga translations (in general)?
Choices:
They're good - votes: 7986 (55.9%)
Minor errors, but who cares? The pictures count - votes: 5415 (37.9%)
They're horrible - votes: 223 (1.6%)
I only read raws - votes: 114 (0.8%)
Don't know - votes: 550 (3.8%)
There were 14288 total votes.
The poll ended: September 11th 2010
So few honest people (or unknowledgeable people)
Edit: Fine, I'll just add that us readers have our manga at the mercy at the translators, so if they screw things up, who of us lowly people would know? What if a translator abuses that trust we put on him/her?
Edit: Mmm, don't you just love controversial comments to see if people read the front page?
Last Edit:
To explain the first comment, that was more offhand than anything else. I should've worded it better to fit my intent, but it's too late, and I'll leave it up there to show my mistake to the world (even though I can easily erase all my words and delete every single comment). The intent of the original poll was to judge the public opinion on translations (whether it be translated into English or another language and whether it meant scanlations or official publisher releases was left to the reader's interpretation). It is not possible to control how a person will read a poll, as most of the 12,000+ (conservatively) entities that vote do not read the front page. So with the data given, there are several interpretations to make. If the voter was being subjective (which I believe most would be), then a vote for the top choice of "They're good" means that they genuinely and honestly believe that most translations are good (whatever "good" means to that person is up for debate though). However, if you look at it objectively, the really low count of votes for "Don't know" is absurd because most people using this site do not have the competent level of the original language of the raw to comprehend an entire chapter of a series. Now, this generalization is backed up by several facts. Foremost of these is that the main release page has the most page views (more than 2x more than the next page) for this site. You can delve deeper into it, but the simple interpretation is that most people want to read English scanlations (whatever the reason, ranging from they have no knowledge of the raw language to that they know tons of languages but just prefer English for everyday use). Thus, the comment I made reflected my latter stated observation, which is to be interpreted that most people read the poll as subjective instead of objective. I should mention that there was no original intent of subjective vs. objective when the original poll was made. I have stated this before in the past, but these polls are meant to be as questions of interest, not scientific data.
My first edit was on the side topic about translators specifically. First, I am not demeaning the art of translating. It is a tough and unpaid job in the scanlation world. It is also vital. They are the lifeblood of operations. "Lowly people" is used to refer to non-translators, which would be most of the population (including me). You may take offense to the word choice, but it is just a word chosen to describe the opposite of someone of higher status (a translator). The comment itself has 2 sentences. The first deals with all cases of translator mistakes (whether they be intentional or unintentional). The first sentence is just stating that if there is a translation mistake, most of us would not know of its existence. Very few people do a side-by-side comparison with a raw or another group's translation. (Now that previous sentence was made without any statistical backup, but I warrant that it wouldn't be wrong to say it). The 2nd sentence deals with only the case of intentional harm, of which I have heard of some (not many though) confirmed cases. It is not a statement that all or even most translators will abuse their powers and intentionally mislead others. In fact, I hope and believe that most mistakes are by accident (or at least with the intention of humor). By abuse, I mean to betray the trust between a reader and a translator that the translated script is as accurate as possible in view of the translator's skill and experience.
As for the 2nd edit, that was written more out of pride than anything else, and so I apologize for that. But I always do wonder how many people truly read what I write...
Many groups seldom have as many translators as they would wish. There is not always enough time/resources to get a 2nd translator of a script to double-check the first guy. I also do realize that mistakes can enter because of an editor or proofreader. It could be an English mistake.
Now flame away at me (and only me, mind you. Don't go flaming the ones in the comments of this news post). (And you're not gonna get THAT much writing from me in a long time.)
You can discuss this poll on our forums here:
http://www.mangaupdates.com/showtopic.php?tid=20969
You can submit poll ideas here:
http://www.mangaupdates.com/showtopic.php?tid=3903
Previous Poll Results:
Question: What do you think of manga translations (in general)?
Choices:
They're good - votes: 7986 (55.9%)
Minor errors, but who cares? The pictures count - votes: 5415 (37.9%)
They're horrible - votes: 223 (1.6%)
I only read raws - votes: 114 (0.8%)
Don't know - votes: 550 (3.8%)
There were 14288 total votes.
The poll ended: September 11th 2010
So few honest people (or unknowledgeable people)
Edit: Fine, I'll just add that us readers have our manga at the mercy at the translators, so if they screw things up, who of us lowly people would know? What if a translator abuses that trust we put on him/her?
Edit: Mmm, don't you just love controversial comments to see if people read the front page?
Last Edit:
To explain the first comment, that was more offhand than anything else. I should've worded it better to fit my intent, but it's too late, and I'll leave it up there to show my mistake to the world (even though I can easily erase all my words and delete every single comment). The intent of the original poll was to judge the public opinion on translations (whether it be translated into English or another language and whether it meant scanlations or official publisher releases was left to the reader's interpretation). It is not possible to control how a person will read a poll, as most of the 12,000+ (conservatively) entities that vote do not read the front page. So with the data given, there are several interpretations to make. If the voter was being subjective (which I believe most would be), then a vote for the top choice of "They're good" means that they genuinely and honestly believe that most translations are good (whatever "good" means to that person is up for debate though). However, if you look at it objectively, the really low count of votes for "Don't know" is absurd because most people using this site do not have the competent level of the original language of the raw to comprehend an entire chapter of a series. Now, this generalization is backed up by several facts. Foremost of these is that the main release page has the most page views (more than 2x more than the next page) for this site. You can delve deeper into it, but the simple interpretation is that most people want to read English scanlations (whatever the reason, ranging from they have no knowledge of the raw language to that they know tons of languages but just prefer English for everyday use). Thus, the comment I made reflected my latter stated observation, which is to be interpreted that most people read the poll as subjective instead of objective. I should mention that there was no original intent of subjective vs. objective when the original poll was made. I have stated this before in the past, but these polls are meant to be as questions of interest, not scientific data.
My first edit was on the side topic about translators specifically. First, I am not demeaning the art of translating. It is a tough and unpaid job in the scanlation world. It is also vital. They are the lifeblood of operations. "Lowly people" is used to refer to non-translators, which would be most of the population (including me). You may take offense to the word choice, but it is just a word chosen to describe the opposite of someone of higher status (a translator). The comment itself has 2 sentences. The first deals with all cases of translator mistakes (whether they be intentional or unintentional). The first sentence is just stating that if there is a translation mistake, most of us would not know of its existence. Very few people do a side-by-side comparison with a raw or another group's translation. (Now that previous sentence was made without any statistical backup, but I warrant that it wouldn't be wrong to say it). The 2nd sentence deals with only the case of intentional harm, of which I have heard of some (not many though) confirmed cases. It is not a statement that all or even most translators will abuse their powers and intentionally mislead others. In fact, I hope and believe that most mistakes are by accident (or at least with the intention of humor). By abuse, I mean to betray the trust between a reader and a translator that the translated script is as accurate as possible in view of the translator's skill and experience.
As for the 2nd edit, that was written more out of pride than anything else, and so I apologize for that. But I always do wonder how many people truly read what I write...
Many groups seldom have as many translators as they would wish. There is not always enough time/resources to get a 2nd translator of a script to double-check the first guy. I also do realize that mistakes can enter because of an editor or proofreader. It could be an English mistake.
Now flame away at me (and only me, mind you. Don't go flaming the ones in the comments of this news post). (And you're not gonna get THAT much writing from me in a long time.)
Comments (limited to first 100 replies)
» Ferozban on September 11th, 2010, 2:18pm
"So few honest people (or unknowledgeable people)"
i take that a little offensive.
the polls question was "in general"
and despite the few bad translatiors and editors in a few groups. fan translations in general are quite good.
offcial translations arent, ok , but most manga arent officially translated, so the majority is fan trans.
and from all the manga i've read/am reading (about 500) there are only a very few scanlations i would consider bad or medicrite.
so please dont just assume that the ones voting for good are hypocrites or dont have much expericane in manga reading.
its also a little offensicve towards all the good groups that put so much effort in translation very day, so the community can have quality.
just my 2 cents.
~feroz
i take that a little offensive.
the polls question was "in general"
and despite the few bad translatiors and editors in a few groups. fan translations in general are quite good.
offcial translations arent, ok , but most manga arent officially translated, so the majority is fan trans.
and from all the manga i've read/am reading (about 500) there are only a very few scanlations i would consider bad or medicrite.
so please dont just assume that the ones voting for good are hypocrites or dont have much expericane in manga reading.
its also a little offensicve towards all the good groups that put so much effort in translation very day, so the community can have quality.
just my 2 cents.
~feroz
» geowrian on September 11th, 2010, 5:16pm
It's sad, but I agree.That was a little bit of an offensive comment. It seems like somebody is a little sour because they disagree...
» ayashe on September 11th, 2010, 5:50pm
Yeah, that was rude. lambchopsil just called over 7000 visitors (counting for any double votes) stupid liars. Maybe we should all should just stop reading manga, since manga translations in general are supposedly bad?
» maxcrazy7 on September 11th, 2010, 9:07pm
I agree with you, not only offending readers but the hard working translators also. I mean they aren't perfect and there is no perfect translation of any languages for that matter.
» stephanie_huisian on September 13th, 2010, 3:10am
but how do you know its good? Someimes translators who arent well verse in the langauge they are translating from & to, they can phrase speeches in a different way. I'm not saying the whole meaning is lost, but it is not put in a succint way, the most accurate way.
And since we don't know e really meaning from e raws, we take it as they are good so long they flow, which is what proofreaders do. So long e conversation flows, does make sense, it's fine, but we can ensure the full meaning has gotten across.
Besides, he wasn't really saying that readers have no experience in manga reading, juz no experience in manga translating. The fact that you are not acknowleding this shows how little you know about manga translating. So don't make him sound so bad...
And since we don't know e really meaning from e raws, we take it as they are good so long they flow, which is what proofreaders do. So long e conversation flows, does make sense, it's fine, but we can ensure the full meaning has gotten across.
Besides, he wasn't really saying that readers have no experience in manga reading, juz no experience in manga translating. The fact that you are not acknowleding this shows how little you know about manga translating. So don't make him sound so bad...
» Ferozban on September 13th, 2010, 12:57pm
i could write another long comment now, but i guess this will also do:
we were asked what we think not what we know, and i think its good. what do you think?
PS: even tho i might have given the impression that i know nothing about translation, i study japanese for 5 semesters now. i dont claim to be knowledged by now. but i get the basics. and hopefully after i've studied a year in japan (maybe 2012) i might be able to translate some stuff myself.
so please dont just assume something out of you missunderstanding my comment.
we were asked what we think not what we know, and i think its good. what do you think?
PS: even tho i might have given the impression that i know nothing about translation, i study japanese for 5 semesters now. i dont claim to be knowledged by now. but i get the basics. and hopefully after i've studied a year in japan (maybe 2012) i might be able to translate some stuff myself.
so please dont just assume something out of you missunderstanding my comment.
» stephanie_huisian on September 18th, 2010, 9:35am
i didn't misunderstand, i say u knew little about manga translating, i did not say u know nothing.
P.S i learn Mandarin & English my entire life, since e day i learn to speak, the differences in sentence structure and vocabulary is so different that it makes translation so hard. Because langauges are created by themselves, the people who created them didn't meant for languages to be translated, that's why translating is difficult, changing the sentences structure will inevitably alter the meaning of what is said
P.S i learn Mandarin & English my entire life, since e day i learn to speak, the differences in sentence structure and vocabulary is so different that it makes translation so hard. Because langauges are created by themselves, the people who created them didn't meant for languages to be translated, that's why translating is difficult, changing the sentences structure will inevitably alter the meaning of what is said
» Ferozban on September 19th, 2010, 2:23pm
no, you still dont understand it...the point was that we weren't asked how good our japanese is. we where asked what we "think" about the translations.
and anyways. the meaning is hardly lost by changing the sentence structure. exactly that is what a translator DOES. he tries to convey the meaning as best as possible. and they certainly do that. what may be lost by changing the structure is the phrasing and the emphasis. that is what differs a masterful translator and a good translator. the percentage of the phasing that is beeing kept as original as possible. perfection is of course impossible since our language differs greatly from japanese.
if i know so little about translation i guess YOU shouldn't even start to talk about it.
and anyways. the meaning is hardly lost by changing the sentence structure. exactly that is what a translator DOES. he tries to convey the meaning as best as possible. and they certainly do that. what may be lost by changing the structure is the phrasing and the emphasis. that is what differs a masterful translator and a good translator. the percentage of the phasing that is beeing kept as original as possible. perfection is of course impossible since our language differs greatly from japanese.
if i know so little about translation i guess YOU shouldn't even start to talk about it.
» stephanie_huisian on September 20th, 2010, 8:11am
what you "think" is very subjective, which is why some people voted "they are good".
» Ferozban on September 20th, 2010, 12:36pm
yes now you get it. that was the whole point. and that is why people can honestly say "i think they are good"
this, all the other factors like trust, translators effort and the readers reading experiance, which allows one to differ from a better or a worse translation even without knowledge of the language by comparing several play a role in the answer and were all allready discussed throughout the whole comments. you might want to read them first.
this, all the other factors like trust, translators effort and the readers reading experiance, which allows one to differ from a better or a worse translation even without knowledge of the language by comparing several play a role in the answer and were all allready discussed throughout the whole comments. you might want to read them first.
» stephanie_huisian on September 24th, 2010, 3:25am
what they "think" is subjective, so what they thought was good, may not be good, coz good is relatively.
But the qn is suppose to be an objective qn (like duh, why do u need to ask a subjective qn), so without know what is really good, how can one tell that their "it is good" is really "good"
P.S do u mind being less hostile
But the qn is suppose to be an objective qn (like duh, why do u need to ask a subjective qn), so without know what is really good, how can one tell that their "it is good" is really "good"
P.S do u mind being less hostile
» Ferozban on September 24th, 2010, 7:15am
"But the qn is suppose to be an objective qn"
no it was not an objective question. we were asked what we are thinking not what we are knowing. "WHAT ARE YOU THINKING" IS A SUBJECTIVE QUESTION!
this is really getting dump. it seems you dont want to get it. i repeat myself again and again and you seem to do a great job at ignoring it. look 2 posts before this one.
PS: and do you mind thinking before posting?:confused:
no it was not an objective question. we were asked what we are thinking not what we are knowing. "WHAT ARE YOU THINKING" IS A SUBJECTIVE QUESTION!
this is really getting dump. it seems you dont want to get it. i repeat myself again and again and you seem to do a great job at ignoring it. look 2 posts before this one.
PS: and do you mind thinking before posting?:confused:
» stephanie_huisian on September 25th, 2010, 11:32am
You still don't get what im trying to say do you? Are ur comprehension skills so bad? Your "good" may not be really good, eg, if you have only drank tap water, you would think tap water is good, but someone who drinks distilled water knows distilled water is the good one, and not tap water. Apply the same analogy to manga, until u exactly know what is being translated and the translation, you wouldn't know if the translation is good. So that's why the low count of "don't know" seems illogical, if you still don't get it, i have no idea how to put it in a simpler way. We just can say this has become a senseless conversation because we are on different frequencies
P.S Maybe its my comprehensive skills OR you explanation skills.
P.S Maybe its my comprehensive skills OR you explanation skills.
» Ferozban on September 26th, 2010, 1:44am
You still don't get what im trying to say do you? Are ur comprehension skills so bad? Your "good" has nothing to do with an objective picture of good. we were asked for our subjective opinion.
and 7000 people honestly think its good. i dont repeat every reason that plays into this answers. if you would have read the comments you would know. thats why people felt insulted.
but it seem you are either the most ignorant person on earth. you wouldnt notice a slap in the face with a hammer it seems, or you purposely play dumb. your comprehensive skills really fail hard. it seems you have almost no knowledge about translation or semantics.
either way it's a waste of time talking to you.
PS: Maybe answering is too much for you OR do you take ages for answering a to a simple comments? good luck having a discussion in an old folks' home. No one reads this shit anymore anyways. This is old news and allready solved long before you ever posted, you just would have needed to READ. And i dont really care anyone if one ignorant person understands it or not.
and 7000 people honestly think its good. i dont repeat every reason that plays into this answers. if you would have read the comments you would know. thats why people felt insulted.
but it seem you are either the most ignorant person on earth. you wouldnt notice a slap in the face with a hammer it seems, or you purposely play dumb. your comprehensive skills really fail hard. it seems you have almost no knowledge about translation or semantics.
either way it's a waste of time talking to you.
PS: Maybe answering is too much for you OR do you take ages for answering a to a simple comments? good luck having a discussion in an old folks' home. No one reads this shit anymore anyways. This is old news and allready solved long before you ever posted, you just would have needed to READ. And i dont really care anyone if one ignorant person understands it or not.
» naikan on September 13th, 2010, 6:57pm
"I'm not saying the whole meaning is lost, but it is not put in a succint way, the most accurate way."
The most succinct way and the most accurate way are antonyms. You can have one or the other, but almost all of the time in translation- especially between two such different languages both culturally and grammatically-, it's impossible for both.
The most succinct way and the most accurate way are antonyms. You can have one or the other, but almost all of the time in translation- especially between two such different languages both culturally and grammatically-, it's impossible for both.
» stephanie_huisian on September 18th, 2010, 9:30am
"it's impossible for both"
Precisely! coz its impossible, some of the meaning gets lost along the way, and some manga aren't translated once, eg, from Jap to Chinese than to English or something!
Precisely! coz its impossible, some of the meaning gets lost along the way, and some manga aren't translated once, eg, from Jap to Chinese than to English or something!
» ayashe on September 11th, 2010, 5:54pm
Of course there will be. Humans won't be around forever, and we're not the wonderful, all powerful species some people would like to think. Eventually a stronger being will come around, we'll destroy ourselves, or some cosmic disaster will happen. It's just the natural order of things.
» ichigo_daisuki on September 11th, 2010, 7:15pm
The majority are going with their gut feeling.
» Ferozban on September 11th, 2010, 9:50pm
"Edit: Fine, I'll just add that us readers have our manga at the mercy at the translators, so if they screw things up, who of us lowly people would know? What if a translator abuses that trust we put on him/her?"
How often do you REALLY think that would happen? i place trust in the translators because most groups scanlating a manga a fans of that manga and want to convey the message the author made as best as possible to their ability.
as a poster allready said perfection is surely impossible but translators try their best and put effort into it.
you are right, we wont notice much if they screw up or in the very unlikely case that they do it on purpose, but i would never automatically assume that enough of them do that so we can generalize "translations in general are bad" without proof.
i'm really glad we have so many groups translating all kinds of manga, and they deserve respect and thanks for that.
and not accusations. or questions that imply accusations to put it correctly.
it seems to me you had some really bad experiences lampchopsil.
How often do you REALLY think that would happen? i place trust in the translators because most groups scanlating a manga a fans of that manga and want to convey the message the author made as best as possible to their ability.
as a poster allready said perfection is surely impossible but translators try their best and put effort into it.
you are right, we wont notice much if they screw up or in the very unlikely case that they do it on purpose, but i would never automatically assume that enough of them do that so we can generalize "translations in general are bad" without proof.
i'm really glad we have so many groups translating all kinds of manga, and they deserve respect and thanks for that.
and not accusations. or questions that imply accusations to put it correctly.
it seems to me you had some really bad experiences lampchopsil.
» naikan on September 12th, 2010, 1:05am
This.
As a longtime translator, that comment just made me go wtf. Yeah, I'm taking my time to translate something for free which is basically thankless charity work (most people leech, few ever say thank you), so why on earth would I even bother "abusing" the translation? It would just be easier for me to not translate and go out with my friends instead of slaving away at the computer for 7 hours. We don't get paid, period, so what is there to even "abuse"?
Also, even in the unlikely situation that a translator does purposely mess around with the translation for some reason, you can bet that the rest of us will call them out on it, since it would damage all of our reputations.
As a longtime translator, that comment just made me go wtf. Yeah, I'm taking my time to translate something for free which is basically thankless charity work (most people leech, few ever say thank you), so why on earth would I even bother "abusing" the translation? It would just be easier for me to not translate and go out with my friends instead of slaving away at the computer for 7 hours. We don't get paid, period, so what is there to even "abuse"?
Also, even in the unlikely situation that a translator does purposely mess around with the translation for some reason, you can bet that the rest of us will call them out on it, since it would damage all of our reputations.
» tyouchan on September 17th, 2010, 8:56pm
thank you very much naikan for being a translator. <= this a sincere compliment.
im a art major so i understand how long it takes to do any project (i consider translating an art but thats just me) and the hard work you put into it. i know many people think "oh they probabably stuck things together and it only took 5 minutes" and dont appreciate the time spent making it.
SO i just wanted to show my appreciation for your work and the time you spend slaving away and making us selfish readers happy.
BTW i pretty neutral towards this whole arguement. this is only for naikannnn~
so nobody bash me. u will get IGNORED.
im a art major so i understand how long it takes to do any project (i consider translating an art but thats just me) and the hard work you put into it. i know many people think "oh they probabably stuck things together and it only took 5 minutes" and dont appreciate the time spent making it.
SO i just wanted to show my appreciation for your work and the time you spend slaving away and making us selfish readers happy.
BTW i pretty neutral towards this whole arguement. this is only for naikannnn~
so nobody bash me. u will get IGNORED.
» Toto on September 11th, 2010, 10:30pm
Stop ragging on him for giving his honest opinion. I'd rather that than have him to say what you people want him to say.
Besides, most people on this site don't know Japanese/Korean/Chinese to compare the translated product to the raws; therefore, the poll basically got answers from what people feel/think about the translations' quality rather than what they know about the translations. (focusing on ethos and pathos rather than logos)
Then, there is the added problem with the fact that we don't all read the same scanlations... there's no way to determine what's the general translation quality without figuring out what is the general reading material/group(s). So, the poll's results don't matter; therefore, no need to get offended about a comment on it.
Now, the most interesting thing about this news post is that fact that Gantz is a group.
Besides, most people on this site don't know Japanese/Korean/Chinese to compare the translated product to the raws; therefore, the poll basically got answers from what people feel/think about the translations' quality rather than what they know about the translations. (focusing on ethos and pathos rather than logos)
Then, there is the added problem with the fact that we don't all read the same scanlations... there's no way to determine what's the general translation quality without figuring out what is the general reading material/group(s). So, the poll's results don't matter; therefore, no need to get offended about a comment on it.
Now, the most interesting thing about this news post is that fact that Gantz is a group.
» Ferozban on September 11th, 2010, 10:53pm
i'm not posting because of his opinion.
if he thinks manga translations are bad. that's his opinion. maybe he understands japanese so well that he can actually say so, and a majority of the groups really are bad. i can't really be a 100% certain of that.
But virtually saying 7000 people are stupid liars is a little offending.
i'm not saying he deeply insulted anyone with that. and i'm not "ragging on him" if i get the meaning of ragging right.
if he thinks manga translations are bad. that's his opinion. maybe he understands japanese so well that he can actually say so, and a majority of the groups really are bad. i can't really be a 100% certain of that.
But virtually saying 7000 people are stupid liars is a little offending.
i'm not saying he deeply insulted anyone with that. and i'm not "ragging on him" if i get the meaning of ragging right.
» Toto on September 12th, 2010, 12:30am
He did not say that translations are bad. He just commented on how few people voted for the "Don't know" option. Either they don't understand what they are voting for... OR that they actually know how good the actual translations are... in other words, he was surprised at how knowledgeable that people are about translation by stating "So few unknowledgeable people".
As for his knowledge on the translations, he doesn't even know any of the original languages (that's why he voted "Don't know").
Next time read what he exactly said, and not insinuate what you think he means... nor place words in his mouth that he never said, such as calling those that voted "stupid". Hell, I'm pretty sure he has never used that word on this site (even in the forums) at all.
As for his knowledge on the translations, he doesn't even know any of the original languages (that's why he voted "Don't know").
Next time read what he exactly said, and not insinuate what you think he means... nor place words in his mouth that he never said, such as calling those that voted "stupid". Hell, I'm pretty sure he has never used that word on this site (even in the forums) at all.
» Ferozban on September 12th, 2010, 1:03am
i read what he said but you did a good job not quoting it: "So few honest people"
this is getting ridiculus. his comment was obviously offensive.
and just so you know: i did not say he said we are stupid liars. but this is the message that's conveyed. he is "virtually" saying it.
maybe you should read my post before answering.
anyways this is getting to point where we're making a mountain out of a dust speck.
i said what i had to say. if you want to get me wrong please do so.
i'm not calling out a witch's hunt or something, quite the opposite, he allways did a great job on MU.
i just commented on his comment because i think otherwise. i guess we "lowly" users are still allowed to do that.
this is getting ridiculus. his comment was obviously offensive.
and just so you know: i did not say he said we are stupid liars. but this is the message that's conveyed. he is "virtually" saying it.
maybe you should read my post before answering.
anyways this is getting to point where we're making a mountain out of a dust speck.
i said what i had to say. if you want to get me wrong please do so.
i'm not calling out a witch's hunt or something, quite the opposite, he allways did a great job on MU.
i just commented on his comment because i think otherwise. i guess we "lowly" users are still allowed to do that.
» naikan on September 12th, 2010, 1:18am
"Besides, most people on this site don't know Japanese/Korean/Chinese to compare the translated product to the raws."
I'm curious, was there a poll about this? How come everyone here is so certain that most people on this site don't know Japanese/Korean/Chinese? MU is a fantastic reference site for people who read raw manga too.
I'm curious, was there a poll about this? How come everyone here is so certain that most people on this site don't know Japanese/Korean/Chinese? MU is a fantastic reference site for people who read raw manga too.
» Jack_T on September 11th, 2010, 11:48pm
I think the only time I've ever had an issue with translations from a publisher is that some decide to censor the book. It not only affects dialogue but also the art, thus hitting it with a two punch knock out for ruining a potentially good book.
Outside of that I hardly notice discrepancies since I don't speak the language. I have always wondered about Claymore though, the scanlations seem incredibly different from the published book.
In regards to translations from scan groups that donate their own time so people can read manga that is otherwise unavailable to them, you'll have to forgive the cliche but "don't bite the hand that feeds you". Even a terrible translation is better than no translation at all. You should thank them for their time and effort.
Outside of that I hardly notice discrepancies since I don't speak the language. I have always wondered about Claymore though, the scanlations seem incredibly different from the published book.
In regards to translations from scan groups that donate their own time so people can read manga that is otherwise unavailable to them, you'll have to forgive the cliche but "don't bite the hand that feeds you". Even a terrible translation is better than no translation at all. You should thank them for their time and effort.
» geowrian on September 12th, 2010, 12:09am
Very well said. Something is *usually* better than nothing when it comes to scanlations.
On average, I would much rather a scanlation group's translation over a publisher's translation. Both could be "good" - their goals are usually different. Some translators goals are to keep it as close to the original as possible. Other translators want to convey the same meaning in a way that may better relate to their region's audience. However, a number of publishers want to change the story not to relate it to their region's audience but to censor it or tell an alternate story.
On average, I would much rather a scanlation group's translation over a publisher's translation. Both could be "good" - their goals are usually different. Some translators goals are to keep it as close to the original as possible. Other translators want to convey the same meaning in a way that may better relate to their region's audience. However, a number of publishers want to change the story not to relate it to their region's audience but to censor it or tell an alternate story.
» geowrian on September 12th, 2010, 12:04am
"Edit: Fine, I'll just add that us readers have our manga at the mercy at the translators, so if they screw things up, who of us lowly people would know? What if a translator abuses that trust we put on him/her?"
That's a pretty insulting way to describe the mangaupdate users - "lowly people".
A translator can abuse their trust with his/her readers. Processes are in place for this for many scanlation groups, such as running things by multiple translators, native Japanese speakers, etc. They can still do a poor job, but that's where the trust really comes into play. Unless you can translate it better yourself, the options are to trust the translator(s), get the raws and use a different translator, or don't read it.
Most people are likely very unqualified to know if the translations are "bad" (which is still subjective). The question was "What do you think of manga translations (in general)?" - note the word "think". I don't "know" if a translation is good or bad, but I do "think" many are "good". I define a "good" translation as one that properly conveys, either in original meaning or via cultural relation, the meaning of original work. In that sense, I think most groups do a good job.
I know enough to check out a group's past works and what more knowledgeable people say about their works. I don't blindly trust a scanlation group. For some series, I read multiple group's versions to get a comparison of their interpretations.
Thank you for calling me dishonest and/or unknowledgeable. I'm very proud of this.
Do you "trust" somebody to fix your computer? Do you "trust" a contractor to renovate your house? Some people should not be allowed a computer and others should not be allowed near a house except maybe their own. A smart consumer can take steps to find a good technician, or a good contractor. Sometimes you still get burnt, but that's life - the majority of these people are still good people that do decent work.
That's a pretty insulting way to describe the mangaupdate users - "lowly people".
A translator can abuse their trust with his/her readers. Processes are in place for this for many scanlation groups, such as running things by multiple translators, native Japanese speakers, etc. They can still do a poor job, but that's where the trust really comes into play. Unless you can translate it better yourself, the options are to trust the translator(s), get the raws and use a different translator, or don't read it.
Most people are likely very unqualified to know if the translations are "bad" (which is still subjective). The question was "What do you think of manga translations (in general)?" - note the word "think". I don't "know" if a translation is good or bad, but I do "think" many are "good". I define a "good" translation as one that properly conveys, either in original meaning or via cultural relation, the meaning of original work. In that sense, I think most groups do a good job.
I know enough to check out a group's past works and what more knowledgeable people say about their works. I don't blindly trust a scanlation group. For some series, I read multiple group's versions to get a comparison of their interpretations.
Thank you for calling me dishonest and/or unknowledgeable. I'm very proud of this.
Do you "trust" somebody to fix your computer? Do you "trust" a contractor to renovate your house? Some people should not be allowed a computer and others should not be allowed near a house except maybe their own. A smart consumer can take steps to find a good technician, or a good contractor. Sometimes you still get burnt, but that's life - the majority of these people are still good people that do decent work.
» Toto on September 12th, 2010, 12:37am
He's not calling MU members lowly.
He's not calling those that lack translation ability lowly.
He's saying that translators have a power/knowledge/ability that we (those that don't translate) have...
And raising them up above the rest for this knowledge alone.
The rest: TL;DR.
He's not calling those that lack translation ability lowly.
He's saying that translators have a power/knowledge/ability that we (those that don't translate) have...
And raising them up above the rest for this knowledge alone.
The rest: TL;DR.
» Toto on September 12th, 2010, 12:39am
Crap...
He's saying that translators have a power/knowledge/ability that we (those that don't translate) don't have...
He's saying that translators have a power/knowledge/ability that we (those that don't translate) don't have...
» stephanie_huisian on September 13th, 2010, 3:03am
"Crap...
He's saying that translators have a power/knowledge/ability that we (those that don't translate) don't have..."
but isn't that true? Translators have the ability to understand e 2 languages, and not all readers do
He's saying that translators have a power/knowledge/ability that we (those that don't translate) don't have..."
but isn't that true? Translators have the ability to understand e 2 languages, and not all readers do
» geowrian on September 13th, 2010, 4:11pm
Yes it is. However, there are very poor ways to say something. Insinuating dishonesty or a lack of knowledge on an opinion question, or calling users "lowly", is a very poor and offending way to put it. He could have just left it the way others have stated above and left it at that. Unfortunately, it took several edits to get to that general point. I'm just glad it's said, it's done, and everybody can just move on.
» geowrian on September 12th, 2010, 12:48pm
"Edit: Fine, I'll just add that us readers have our manga at the mercy at the translators, so if they screw things up, who of us lowly people would know?"
Sorry, but that is directly calling the users/readers "lowly". Who else was the word "lowly" aimed at? He could have worded it like you said to note they have a skill (translating a language) that most people don't have. Instead of raising the translators up, he pushed everybody else down by calling them "lowly".
"Edit: Mmm, don't you just love controversial comments to see if people read the front page?"
It's nice to see he's getting a kick out of making these types of comments. He seems very mature.
Sorry, but that is directly calling the users/readers "lowly". Who else was the word "lowly" aimed at? He could have worded it like you said to note they have a skill (translating a language) that most people don't have. Instead of raising the translators up, he pushed everybody else down by calling them "lowly".
"Edit: Mmm, don't you just love controversial comments to see if people read the front page?"
It's nice to see he's getting a kick out of making these types of comments. He seems very mature.
» Ferozban on September 12th, 2010, 1:48pm
yeah it seems every Edit is worse then the one before.
now he displays an arrogant premature child not beeing able to deal with criticism.
i guess we can savely ignore his future comments.
at least thats what i will do.
now he displays an arrogant premature child not beeing able to deal with criticism.
i guess we can savely ignore his future comments.
at least thats what i will do.
» Akillarian on September 12th, 2010, 5:46am
Humans are already harming and killing humans everyday. Someday, we will all kill each other with pollution, acid rain, viruses developed by pharmaceutical with no cures, ect.
And if aliens are happened to arrive on Earth to offer a solution, we'll probably kill them too before they can even interact with us. Because humans distrust and hate anything "different" from what they are believed and used to.
And if aliens are happened to arrive on Earth to offer a solution, we'll probably kill them too before they can even interact with us. Because humans distrust and hate anything "different" from what they are believed and used to.
» Unproductive on September 12th, 2010, 7:41am
There are quite a few series that are completely wrong. In general, these aren't the most popular of series since those get more scrutiny. Of these less popular series, if it is a second-hand translation, then there is a MUCH higher probability that it is wrong. There are two chances for parts to get lost in translation, and one more chance for some editorial creativity.
Now when they are correct, the translation usually comes across flat. A good test for this is if you can read the script and then close your eyes and imagine the characters saying those lines. Assuming the art is decent at capturing the tension in the plot, if the your imagination can't match up to that of the artwork (usually it's far far better), then the translation never captured the spirit of the work. The vast majority of translation are flat (not enough tension) or incoherent (inconsistent) in this respect.
There are some rare series that get the proper service and sometimes readers remark how well the series is written. If you are thinking, "That scene was expertly crafted," the difference is probably an excellent job on the translation. Nearly every individual scene is written well in the original. If you are thinking, "The pace of a story arc was great," that would be the original author, but the translations can muddle that up too.
But not all of this is because of the translator. Much of it falls on the group admins who may have setup an inadequate proofreading team or may have chosen to translate second-hand without checking for accuracy first.
But for all readers, ignorance is bliss.
Now when they are correct, the translation usually comes across flat. A good test for this is if you can read the script and then close your eyes and imagine the characters saying those lines. Assuming the art is decent at capturing the tension in the plot, if the your imagination can't match up to that of the artwork (usually it's far far better), then the translation never captured the spirit of the work. The vast majority of translation are flat (not enough tension) or incoherent (inconsistent) in this respect.
There are some rare series that get the proper service and sometimes readers remark how well the series is written. If you are thinking, "That scene was expertly crafted," the difference is probably an excellent job on the translation. Nearly every individual scene is written well in the original. If you are thinking, "The pace of a story arc was great," that would be the original author, but the translations can muddle that up too.
But not all of this is because of the translator. Much of it falls on the group admins who may have setup an inadequate proofreading team or may have chosen to translate second-hand without checking for accuracy first.
But for all readers, ignorance is bliss.
» kizku on September 12th, 2010, 8:05am
there've been two polls more or less directed towards language. "Has manga/anime inspired you to learn the language?" from august 2008 and "Preferred medium if all forms were available for your favorite series?" from november 2008. participants: 10000 first poll to 9300 second poll.
results that matter in our case were the following: about 60% (6000 participants) were learning japanese/chinese/korean, 11% tried and failed, 6% prefer original language raws.
interpretation could be, that the vast majority knows japanese (or tries to) but is far stronger in their first or second (english, i suppose) language. mind, this is from 2008.
looking at the translation poll, there are 14300 participants, 8000 voted that translations are good.
this translates to, assuming most of the 2008 voters participated in this vote, most people that learned a language in 2008 are now at a level to evaluate whether translations are good or not AND about half of the additional (new? as in: joined after 2008) voters are too. i know this is too easy of an interpretation... but still a point of view.
he should have written it like this: "so few honest people... or so few unknowledgeable people". his concern is justified as 94% voted that they know the language well enough to make an assessment.
this asks for new polls. "how is your japanese" answers should include different levels of the Japanese Language Proficiency Test, "i live in japan", self taught, "i don't know japanese", "i tried to learn but gave up", "i am learning to take a jlps", "learning entry level japanese" and much more. it should give a distinct picture of peoples skills.
but! the community could ridicule itself in a way with such a vote (assuming it'll be answered faithfully)...
just my few cent
results that matter in our case were the following: about 60% (6000 participants) were learning japanese/chinese/korean, 11% tried and failed, 6% prefer original language raws.
interpretation could be, that the vast majority knows japanese (or tries to) but is far stronger in their first or second (english, i suppose) language. mind, this is from 2008.
looking at the translation poll, there are 14300 participants, 8000 voted that translations are good.
this translates to, assuming most of the 2008 voters participated in this vote, most people that learned a language in 2008 are now at a level to evaluate whether translations are good or not AND about half of the additional (new? as in: joined after 2008) voters are too. i know this is too easy of an interpretation... but still a point of view.
he should have written it like this: "so few honest people... or so few unknowledgeable people". his concern is justified as 94% voted that they know the language well enough to make an assessment.
this asks for new polls. "how is your japanese" answers should include different levels of the Japanese Language Proficiency Test, "i live in japan", self taught, "i don't know japanese", "i tried to learn but gave up", "i am learning to take a jlps", "learning entry level japanese" and much more. it should give a distinct picture of peoples skills.
but! the community could ridicule itself in a way with such a vote (assuming it'll be answered faithfully)...
just my few cent
» Ferozban on September 12th, 2010, 10:59am
a poll like "how good is your japanese" is only semi-related to the results of this one and would definetly not ridiculate the results.
people where asked what there are thinking about the translations. so they gave their honest feeling and opinion what they are thinking. that gutt feeling of course is based on their subjective perception and experiance with the groups, and it seems many had good experiances.
it also doesnt take a deeply understanding of a langaue to see if a translations is good or bad. readers often notice when things are not fitting.
and of course the global manga community especially the translators kinda supervise each other. many groups have additional proof readers. and by working on manga translations translators they are inexperianced learn and become better.
all of that and maybe more is what the answer "they're good" is based of.
obviously a poll about the actuall japanese skills would not reflect that, but it does not take any validation of this result.
people where asked what there are thinking about the translations. so they gave their honest feeling and opinion what they are thinking. that gutt feeling of course is based on their subjective perception and experiance with the groups, and it seems many had good experiances.
it also doesnt take a deeply understanding of a langaue to see if a translations is good or bad. readers often notice when things are not fitting.
and of course the global manga community especially the translators kinda supervise each other. many groups have additional proof readers. and by working on manga translations translators they are inexperianced learn and become better.
all of that and maybe more is what the answer "they're good" is based of.
obviously a poll about the actuall japanese skills would not reflect that, but it does not take any validation of this result.
» kizku on September 12th, 2010, 2:03pm
i'll admit that your point is valid aswell, but therein lies the problem. in the end, the poll does not state whether it's asking for a subjective or an objective estimation.
they're good as in they are trying hard by their own means to convey the original meaning or as in the translations convey the original meaning as good as a world class piece of literature would deserve?
you say there are the inexperienced. yes, there are. and they are probably doing their best. that doesn't change the fact, that the translations could be done better by more experienced translators. their translations are by no means always bad, but in my opinion, and from my own experience (not with translations, but the process of learning), the translations will range from "bad" over "you get the gist of it" over "readable" to "okay". but they are learning one of the hardest languages there is and i believe, to make good translations, you not only have to learn the language for many many years, but also live there and have a proper education in translation. my first language is german, second is english. i've been learning (nine years in school) and using english for twelve years. my english is average. i could translate literature back and forth. the translations would be mediocre at best.
when i look at the drama between groups, be it manga translation, anime translation or drama translation, there have to be many many many subpar translations...
they're good as in they are trying hard by their own means to convey the original meaning or as in the translations convey the original meaning as good as a world class piece of literature would deserve?
you say there are the inexperienced. yes, there are. and they are probably doing their best. that doesn't change the fact, that the translations could be done better by more experienced translators. their translations are by no means always bad, but in my opinion, and from my own experience (not with translations, but the process of learning), the translations will range from "bad" over "you get the gist of it" over "readable" to "okay". but they are learning one of the hardest languages there is and i believe, to make good translations, you not only have to learn the language for many many years, but also live there and have a proper education in translation. my first language is german, second is english. i've been learning (nine years in school) and using english for twelve years. my english is average. i could translate literature back and forth. the translations would be mediocre at best.
when i look at the drama between groups, be it manga translation, anime translation or drama translation, there have to be many many many subpar translations...
» kawaiiusagichan on September 15th, 2010, 5:47am
Japanese is not a hard language. If I'm not wrong, Icelandic or one of those languages is.
» Pikapu on September 12th, 2010, 2:29pm
It's not a big deal. e_______e;;
» wintermelon on September 12th, 2010, 10:08pm
i agree o.o ahaha xD
» MewMan on September 12th, 2010, 11:26pm
Somehow I feel bad for suggesting the translation poll...
Btw, I don't think lambchopsil said anything offensive... Or maybe I just don't fully get what he wrote...
Btw, I don't think lambchopsil said anything offensive... Or maybe I just don't fully get what he wrote...
» Pikapu on September 13th, 2010, 1:19pm
Hahaha, I totally don't get what he wrote either. Well, I sorta do, but I don't care.
Oh, don't worry there's nothing to feel bad about!! :]
Oh, don't worry there's nothing to feel bad about!! :]
» AndyProk on September 13th, 2010, 7:03am
IS there a top?
Isn't it a circle?
In the end everything gets eaten by microorganisms who get eaten themselves etc.
Isn't it a circle?
In the end everything gets eaten by microorganisms who get eaten themselves etc.» kirabook on September 13th, 2010, 7:17am
I didn't take it offensively at all. I don't know japanese or chinese or anything that well, but I do know things get lost intranslation all the time. So who cares about the small mistakes? I admit they do better than I ever could, but I don't inderstand why people are making a big deal about a little comment. Way too sensitive.
» Ferozban on September 13th, 2010, 12:47pm
"But I always do wonder how many people truly read what I write..."
well at least now you know that people read what you say and take it seriously.
by posting a news on MU you stand in the center of the community (me claiming MU beeing the center since MHs demise)
and of course many people care for what you write. i mean you work for community for years now and do your part in keeping MU running.
so thanks for clearing up the controversial comments. i think the harmony between the staff of MU, its users, and the groups is really important.
for in my opinion [drama queen mode on for sec] if the translators are the heart of our community, the editors and other groups staff are the other vital organs and the users even if they are just silent leechers are the body, the shell of our community. it's also us users who keep MU running. make updates on series. start conversations in the forum and just give the scanlators the security that their work is not unrecognized.
so of course as newsposter on MU we hear you.
now lets all be friends again ok?
well at least now you know that people read what you say and take it seriously.
by posting a news on MU you stand in the center of the community (me claiming MU beeing the center since MHs demise)
and of course many people care for what you write. i mean you work for community for years now and do your part in keeping MU running.
so thanks for clearing up the controversial comments. i think the harmony between the staff of MU, its users, and the groups is really important.
for in my opinion [drama queen mode on for sec] if the translators are the heart of our community, the editors and other groups staff are the other vital organs and the users even if they are just silent leechers are the body, the shell of our community. it's also us users who keep MU running. make updates on series. start conversations in the forum and just give the scanlators the security that their work is not unrecognized.
so of course as newsposter on MU we hear you.
now lets all be friends again ok?
» veenav on September 13th, 2010, 5:26pm
i am not being offensive, but maybe some companies saw this poll and decided to make scanlating illegal or something what will happen to this world? the way libre publishing decided to ask the scan sites to remove all their manga maybe just the beginning of some ban law? the previous attempt to stop some 30 or something sites was just for licensed stuff. but if they try to make some law to make translating unlicensed manga too illegal, can we do or say anything as a excuse to make them stand in some kind of neutral ground?
» Hikari Reizumi on September 13th, 2010, 6:37pm
I like reading mangas (manhua and manhwa included). The mangas that I only read are the ones that have clean scanlation and correct english translations. But if, somewhere in between, the english is incomprehensible, I'd try to understand what is going on since I'm fairly sure that it will go back to the way it was before. If not, well...I'd totally lose interest and be disappointed (if I'm enjoying the manga already).
Like I said, I only read the "clean" and correct ones...so what I mentioned above is a rare case for me. BUT!!! it's not only the pictures that I'm after, I focus on the plot too. ^^ And what would a plot be without the texts?
Like I said, I only read the "clean" and correct ones...so what I mentioned above is a rare case for me. BUT!!! it's not only the pictures that I'm after, I focus on the plot too. ^^ And what would a plot be without the texts?
» Scyfon on September 14th, 2010, 3:00am
LOL Lambs, I love the way you (unintentionally) troll xD
Kinda shocked me a little to see so many words from you!
Let the offended be offended.
Their misinterpretation, their problem.
Kinda shocked me a little to see so many words from you!
Let the offended be offended.
Their misinterpretation, their problem.
» silver-vixi on September 14th, 2010, 5:07am
No explanation necessary IMO... If people want to get offended let them, they must have very little excitement in their lives if this is something to take offence about....
» t1774ny on September 14th, 2010, 6:35am
i'm not an expert in japanese and sometimes i do get the feeling that the translation is off but who am i to say? plus if the translators aren't sure about when they write there's usually a note on the side ^^
they're doing a great job!
they're doing a great job!
» kawaiiusagichan on September 14th, 2010, 7:58am
Woah, not bad. I actually agree with what you say. As a fan translator and as someone who has learnt the language for more than a few years, I still can't say I know everything for certain. Translators who go all defensive and can't accept that they're wrong (I have seen a few) should do a reality check. We all work hard at our 'art' for the love of manga and the community and yes, it's a thankless job, but we should all do our best, no? And one of the worst things that impede skill is pride.
Still, who would complain about the translations of other groups? That'd be like biting the hand that feeds us. Yes, we translate for a group, but when we read another group's scanlations that makes us a leech of that other group, so it's kind of bad etiquette for a leech to complain, isn't it? Unless we release a chapter ourselves (and that'd be so much work. Why bother?)
Let's just stop complaining about stuff, and be grateful for getting free stuff. Hopefully the bad translators will improve and we'll get nicer quality translations.
Still, who would complain about the translations of other groups? That'd be like biting the hand that feeds us. Yes, we translate for a group, but when we read another group's scanlations that makes us a leech of that other group, so it's kind of bad etiquette for a leech to complain, isn't it? Unless we release a chapter ourselves (and that'd be so much work. Why bother?)
Let's just stop complaining about stuff, and be grateful for getting free stuff. Hopefully the bad translators will improve and we'll get nicer quality translations.
» TheRandomChocolate on September 14th, 2010, 2:29pm
This. The first decent post I've read on here, I believe.
P.S I am a scanlator.
P.S I am a scanlator.
» kawaiiusagichan on September 15th, 2010, 5:52am
Thank you. 
Let's work hard on improving our skills and to propel the leeching - whoops, I meant scanlation - community to greater heights!
Let's work hard on improving our skills and to propel the leeching - whoops, I meant scanlation - community to greater heights!
» credomane on September 14th, 2010, 7:24pm
Quote
Edit: Fine, I'll just add that us readers have our manga at the mercy at the translators, so if they screw things up, who of us lowly people would know? What if a translator abuses that trust we put on him/her?
Yes what we read in mangas is up to the translators. If one/some/all of them completely changes the story from the raw we'd never know. What would it matter if you suddenly find out that the translations for the manga you were reading are a complete lie? You'd been enjoying it up until that point, yes? So that is a moot point to me. If a translator, intentionally or not, screwed up a bubble, page or chapter completely I would imagine it would look rather odd and stand out quite a bit.
Most of the manga I read are scanlated by very small groups. Those same mangas tend to have English grammar errors here and there. They stand out to me because of English being my native language; I still understand what was meant in the translation and it was translated for FREE in someone else's spare time. Plus I'm not their English teacher so I have no right to complain about their work. I just happy to have a manga translated into English, minor errors or otherwise, that I would probably never have the chance to read otherwise. For ALL of the mangas I read I wouldn't even know they existed with out the English scanlations.
Quote
Minor errors, but who cares? The pictures count
That's what I voted because I didn't notice that "The pictures count" was part of the choice until after I had voted already. I'm a bit annoyed by that particular part of the choice. If the pictures account for so much over the translation everyone would just use the raws and the need for translations would be practically non-existent. The story and the pictures of manga go hand in hand with each other by design. I doubt very many manga would make much sense or be all that enjoyable with only one of the two. I'm sure some of "They're good" voters would choose what I did if it wasn't for the "The pictures count". I wish I could change my vote to "They're good" but couldn't find a way. I also wonder how many others wish they could do the change their vote the same way I wish too.» harmonize on September 15th, 2010, 6:29am
[ I'm sure some of "They're good" voters would choose what I did if it wasn't for the "The pictures count". ]
^ This. To me texts do count a lot, so I chose "They're good" instead of "Minor errors, but who cares? The pictures count". I'm very grateful for what the translators have done for the community so far, so I won't utter a single complain, well maybe a productive comment or two wouldn't be too bad, all for the better
^ This. To me texts do count a lot, so I chose "They're good" instead of "Minor errors, but who cares? The pictures count". I'm very grateful for what the translators have done for the community so far, so I won't utter a single complain, well maybe a productive comment or two wouldn't be too bad, all for the better
» winternite on September 15th, 2010, 8:56am
As a member of the scanslation community, I'm rather happy to see that most, if not all readers are happy with the releases. I'm a translator and a proofreader; two positions mentioned in this post, one being at the stands.
Firstly, to the 223 people who voted 'They're horrible', let's just see you try producing a chapter on your own. It isn't easy to make sure that every last microscopic bit of conversation and content isn't lost in translation, which also includes Japanese / Korean / Mandarin word puns and cultural jokes.
If you're using English-translated manga by the publishing houses as your base of comparison, I'm truly at loss for words.
Lambchopsil, maybe you should have rephrased 'lowly people' to something more public-soothing.
There are many ways to interpreting words and phrases, and some may even misinterpret and take it the wrong way.
That goes for translating too; there are just so many ways to phrase a sentence.
One translator might have one way of interpreting and translating a conversation, another will have a different way of structuring the dialog.
Even with a side-by-side comparison, you will never be able to outrightly say that a particular group is at fault with their version of the comic.
That said, given that translators take pride in their work and would never intentionally churn a crappy script and risk ruining the reputation of the group.
It is irrefutable that there are many words and phrases in foreign languages that the English language just doesn't have an equivalent of, which in this case is Japanese, Korean and Mandarin.
Sometimes, it's rather hard to find words in English that produces a similar impact as the ones used by the mangaka / manwhaga / manhwajia in their native forms; that's when you get a lossy version of the manga, We do try to get 85, if not 90% of the original message through though, similar to a 320kbps version of a fix-bitrate MP3 file.
If you want a lossless version of the comic, might I suggest you learn the language and read the raw.
I prefer to read English scans even when I understand two of the languages because I'm just plain lazy to switch to multilingual mode, and I think most groups do a pretty good job in translating and editing.
At least they clean and substitute, if not side note, all the sfx. Take a look at the $8 manga you bought from the legal publishing houses and now, take a look at the scans. See my point?
And what's with all the eye-dialect and Yankee-talk? I don't remember the characters being gangsters and hoodlums or grammatically inept to speak properly.
As long as the editing is good, the characters are speaking according to their behavior / personality and the words flow seamlessly across the chapters and volumes, then the scans are considered good in my books.
That, my fellow readers, are my two cents.
Firstly, to the 223 people who voted 'They're horrible', let's just see you try producing a chapter on your own. It isn't easy to make sure that every last microscopic bit of conversation and content isn't lost in translation, which also includes Japanese / Korean / Mandarin word puns and cultural jokes.
If you're using English-translated manga by the publishing houses as your base of comparison, I'm truly at loss for words.
Lambchopsil, maybe you should have rephrased 'lowly people' to something more public-soothing.
There are many ways to interpreting words and phrases, and some may even misinterpret and take it the wrong way.
That goes for translating too; there are just so many ways to phrase a sentence.
One translator might have one way of interpreting and translating a conversation, another will have a different way of structuring the dialog.
Even with a side-by-side comparison, you will never be able to outrightly say that a particular group is at fault with their version of the comic.
That said, given that translators take pride in their work and would never intentionally churn a crappy script and risk ruining the reputation of the group.
It is irrefutable that there are many words and phrases in foreign languages that the English language just doesn't have an equivalent of, which in this case is Japanese, Korean and Mandarin.
Sometimes, it's rather hard to find words in English that produces a similar impact as the ones used by the mangaka / manwhaga / manhwajia in their native forms; that's when you get a lossy version of the manga, We do try to get 85, if not 90% of the original message through though, similar to a 320kbps version of a fix-bitrate MP3 file.
If you want a lossless version of the comic, might I suggest you learn the language and read the raw.
I prefer to read English scans even when I understand two of the languages because I'm just plain lazy to switch to multilingual mode, and I think most groups do a pretty good job in translating and editing.
At least they clean and substitute, if not side note, all the sfx. Take a look at the $8 manga you bought from the legal publishing houses and now, take a look at the scans. See my point?
And what's with all the eye-dialect and Yankee-talk? I don't remember the characters being gangsters and hoodlums or grammatically inept to speak properly.
As long as the editing is good, the characters are speaking according to their behavior / personality and the words flow seamlessly across the chapters and volumes, then the scans are considered good in my books.
That, my fellow readers, are my two cents.
