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Aggregators, Scanlators, and MU
We know some of you have been following the recent events, and we have a statement we would like to make regarding aggregators. For your reference, aggregators are websites where you can read manga online.
As a result of several new instances brought to our attention, and his continued actions contrary to the will of scanlators, we have removed matias067 from the MU staff. We thank matias for his service of reporting several thousand releases during his service here.
While this action would seem to be appeasing the community, that is not our intent. Even though we disagreed with what was occurring, we could not unfairly move against one of our members at the time because we didn't have a concrete policy regulating those actions. Our rules were about respecting release delays here on this site. We never considered the scenario that one of our updaters would not be respecting delays on some other website. As a result we have again modified our policy, and as such will no longer tolerate relationships between our release mods and aggregators.
Some of you may see this as the justice denied you weeks ago when we adamantly opposed the public crucifixion of one of our staff. While we cannot speak to the effectiveness of eliminating one of our moderators, we ask that you consider the bigger picture. MU has one voice in a large community. Just as we cannot control what others do in this community, we also cannot defeat the aggregators. The Internet is a vast environment of anarchy where new groups and organizations pop up and drown out into non-existence on a daily basis. How can we possibly control this? Only one reader need know about a release from a particular scanlator, and update an aggregator on a regular basis. The problem with release delays is compounded by the fact that in such a platform, they are virtually impossible to enforce and violations (by any particular entity) are difficult to detect. Such attempts would simply be thwarted by using different usernames or email addresses.
At the end of the day, all we can do as a website is state our position. We do not support and try to actively spread the word against profiteering off the backs of scanlators. At the same time, while we encourage you to go and buy Manga you like, we continue to have no official position on aggregators in general. You must make your own decisions about your associations with the community and these sites.
Thank you for your time,
Manick & Lamb
As a result of several new instances brought to our attention, and his continued actions contrary to the will of scanlators, we have removed matias067 from the MU staff. We thank matias for his service of reporting several thousand releases during his service here.
While this action would seem to be appeasing the community, that is not our intent. Even though we disagreed with what was occurring, we could not unfairly move against one of our members at the time because we didn't have a concrete policy regulating those actions. Our rules were about respecting release delays here on this site. We never considered the scenario that one of our updaters would not be respecting delays on some other website. As a result we have again modified our policy, and as such will no longer tolerate relationships between our release mods and aggregators.
Some of you may see this as the justice denied you weeks ago when we adamantly opposed the public crucifixion of one of our staff. While we cannot speak to the effectiveness of eliminating one of our moderators, we ask that you consider the bigger picture. MU has one voice in a large community. Just as we cannot control what others do in this community, we also cannot defeat the aggregators. The Internet is a vast environment of anarchy where new groups and organizations pop up and drown out into non-existence on a daily basis. How can we possibly control this? Only one reader need know about a release from a particular scanlator, and update an aggregator on a regular basis. The problem with release delays is compounded by the fact that in such a platform, they are virtually impossible to enforce and violations (by any particular entity) are difficult to detect. Such attempts would simply be thwarted by using different usernames or email addresses.
At the end of the day, all we can do as a website is state our position. We do not support and try to actively spread the word against profiteering off the backs of scanlators. At the same time, while we encourage you to go and buy Manga you like, we continue to have no official position on aggregators in general. You must make your own decisions about your associations with the community and these sites.
Thank you for your time,
Manick & Lamb
Comments (limited to first 100 replies)
» uzumakiwalid on September 27th, 2011, 7:58am
Now everyone knows where the position of MU in the community called "Internet"
» SiLNeT on September 27th, 2011, 8:31am
I think this is reasonable. MU isn't the internet police. In fact, if it weren't for posts from MU like these bringing to attention sites like MangaFox (by linking out relevant posts) and Tazmo, I for one would've remained completely ignorant, possibly continuing to support sites like MangaFox. I'm aware of the ramifications that scanlations have on the manga community, but there are certain lines I draw when it comes to them.
» MisterX on September 27th, 2011, 11:25am
..then there is of course the fact that artificially forcing delays on the internet, where everything goes, only and ONLY to make the group leader's e-peen feel bigger is completely retarded. Sorry, it has to be said. There is completely needless drama over the most worthless things..
» Kuthrow on September 27th, 2011, 11:29am
Not all delays are solely for e-peen stroking though. There are people who ask for delays for valid reasons.
» tom_moreau on September 27th, 2011, 11:48am
What scanlation groups or leaders do is completely up to them. Be thankful for their work and efforts. If you want to scanlate yourself, then do it, but don't blame anyone for having pride in their work.
» Tymemage on September 27th, 2011, 2:41pm
Except it isn't their work, it's somebody's work that they're stealing, slapping their name on, and then trying to do whatever they want with it and then complaining when someone else makes a profit off of it.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a scanlator myself and am just as guilty of stealing, but at least I don't watermark or ask for money (donations) or try to control the distribution of someone else's work I stole. This new breed of scanlators that popped up in the last few years that thinks it's okay to do this stuff is killing the community just as much as the aggregate sites.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a scanlator myself and am just as guilty of stealing, but at least I don't watermark or ask for money (donations) or try to control the distribution of someone else's work I stole. This new breed of scanlators that popped up in the last few years that thinks it's okay to do this stuff is killing the community just as much as the aggregate sites.
» archknight on September 27th, 2011, 5:53pm
I personally dont mind the watermarks, even prefer there is more watermarking to them because, I didnt buy the books, or pay the mangaka or publisher for it. I am completely getting it for free, at the expense of all the time that people put into it. If watermarking ruins the quality and make people want to purchase the actual book, I would be all up for it
» auriga on September 27th, 2011, 8:17pm
Agreed. It's a free (not to mention illegal) service. It's definitely wrong for me to expect something better or even as good as than the actual physical tankobon which I should buy in the first place.
» gringe on September 27th, 2011, 7:32pm
It's true that a scanlator doesn't draw the art or write the story. They do, however, write the translation. Translations vary in style and tone depending on the translator so it's fair to say the translation itself is a creative work. Derivative perhaps, but it still requires creative thinking. Scanlation's definitely piracy, but let's be fair here: it's not JUST stealing.
» ZL11 on September 27th, 2011, 8:54pm
It's stealing with STYLE. Guess that makes the man... or whatever. I agree that trying to control a scanlation once released is like trying to herd cats. If it was so easy to control what is passed around the Internet, record companies and the movie industry wouldn't be foaming at the mouth about trying (and FAILING) to control it. It's impossible. If you gave 20 people in a room, give them ONE rule to follow, it's a sure bet at least 1-2 people will break it, just to do it.
Of course, submitting scanlation work to sites that charge for it is not cool. But, again, if that person didn't, someone else would... eventually.
Of course, submitting scanlation work to sites that charge for it is not cool. But, again, if that person didn't, someone else would... eventually.
» ZL11 on September 27th, 2011, 9:08pm
Um, BTW - although I agree that the translation is someone's hard work, the fact is that we are stealing original work ourselves, using it for our amusement, generally without the author's consent, and disseminating to the general public as "our effort." If it REALLY were a "legal" process, scanlation groups would never receive C&Ds, would they? I'm not saying a scanlation group is a den of thieves; I'm saying that when we point fingers, we need to look our own actions. Because, heck, it's not exactly convincing to sit on a high horse that's been stolen once IMO.
» gringe on September 27th, 2011, 9:41pm
I know scanlation isn't legal (actually I specifically said that in my post), and I'm sure we could go into this topic pretty deeply but this probably isn't the place, so let me just try to explain myself more clearly. I wasn't particularly making a case for anybody, just stating that scanlation is not simple "rip and upload" piracy so people who do the translations aren't entirely wrong to be mad about people making money off of it. In the US I believe that releasing a translation of a comic is actually legal and falls under "fair use" but of course distributing the images along with it makes it illegal.
» ZL11 on September 27th, 2011, 10:05pm
Hmmm... I did see that you made that statement, I was just making my stance on it. And I believe I said that making money off of it was wrong. I definitely agree with that. But, putting it out on the Internet makes it fair game. You can't control who gets it once it's out there. The only way to do that is NOT post it, not translate it, not put it out there. That's my point. People will break the rules regardless of rules, consequences, and all else. People still trade music illegally, still download illegal copies of software, books, and movies, despite people being caught and fined. There are still people out there making money off of these things, regardless, just because it's nearly impossible to control a world of "abstract" people. Should it be done? No. I agree with you on that. But it can't be controlled. You can only depend on people being kind enough to ask/follow rules. And, most of the time, they don't. That's just the way the Internet goes...
» thevampirate on September 27th, 2011, 10:36pm
actually translating and publishing comics in the us is not fair use since most us comic companies make sure that their rights includes that so they can license their comics overseas. the manga comunity also licenses their manga to be translated into other languages. anyone who tells you scanlation is legal is wrong; it is in a little gray area of the law and there's no reason for the publishers to go and bring it to international court (the company would loose more than it would win). If you are a scanlator be proud of the fact that you are a pirate and you can be upset when someone steals from you (its the unwritten code you just dont do that to people) watermarking is a douchbag move that should only be used to send a message when someone does something like take your scans/trans or upload them against your wishes.
» ZL11 on September 28th, 2011, 12:32am
I gotta know... HOW does it send a message? Please tell me. As far as I can tell, watermarking done continuously to "send a message" does nothing but piss readers off. I've stopped reading two groups for their outrageous and consistently annoying use of "heavy" watermarking. If that's the goal, then, bravo! Achieved! But I don't think it is, so I would love to hear how it works in practice rather than theory. I'm not being a douche here; I'm being serious. I would love some proof that it works.
» gringe on September 28th, 2011, 6:44pm
Whoa, I didn't say anything about PUBLISHING a translation. Just releasing the translation script for free constitutes fair use, I believe.
» ZL11 on September 28th, 2011, 11:54pm
Really? Then... if you translate something into English, and I snag it from your site, and use it for my scanlation in Spanish, it's okay? Because, if I recall, there are some copyright laws that deal with publishing on a blog or site constitutes a "copyright" unless outright stated "I don't own this." BUT - I don't know for sure, since I'm not a lawyer. Still, people get super heated about someone snagging their translation and switching it into a different language, even when it wasn't their script in the first place. It's hard to understand why that translator's effort is less than the third language translation when, essentially, they were doing the same thing. Um, now snagging it without permission in the SAME language and using it for scanlation, that's just stupid and impolite. I wish many a flying monkey on those blokes. Maybe a full flock of the little rascals... in tree... and full lower intestines to work with...
» gringe on September 29th, 2011, 2:12am
I think it's legal but I don't know for 100%. Of course it probably depends on what it is you're translating (a translation script of a movie or comic would probably be more acceptable than a novel). Translating from a translation is generally a bad idea to begin with.
» thevampirate on September 27th, 2011, 1:06pm
I think it is a shame that it had to come to this. The only mistake Mathias did was get MU involved with the crap on mangafox. Aggregators are a part of the manga comunity and people need to accept that, they may be parasites who make money off of groups works but they still help by getting the releases out to the masses. if you look back to the early days when everything was done on IRC only the more knowledgeable and dedicated could get the releases. still its importaint to listen to the wishes of the scanlators and respect their decisions if they dont want their manga on online readers.
In addition this should be at least a nice wake-up call to people who do stupid things like post about being part of MU staff elsewhere. hopefully this will put an end to all the drama and we wont have to deal with it ever again.
In addition this should be at least a nice wake-up call to people who do stupid things like post about being part of MU staff elsewhere. hopefully this will put an end to all the drama and we wont have to deal with it ever again.
» kevmasterzoc on September 27th, 2011, 2:48pm
While the aggregators may be a nice place to read manga, theres a huge risk against the scanlating community BECAUSE those site are making money from it. With them making money from the manga that were scanlated into english, its slowing pushing scanlation from a grey area of the law into the black area where it can be punishable and many groups are worried it can affect them as well
» thevampirate on September 27th, 2011, 4:56pm
honestly I agree with you entirely about those problems and that's why it should be up to the scanlators to upload their own releases to aggregators.
In the event of legal action against the aggregators the groups most likely wont be targeted and if they are they can just as easily be dissolved and reformed.
I'm not Pro-Aggregator however I understand that they do provide a benefit to the community and that benefit comes with a large Risk.
In the event of legal action against the aggregators the groups most likely wont be targeted and if they are they can just as easily be dissolved and reformed.
I'm not Pro-Aggregator however I understand that they do provide a benefit to the community and that benefit comes with a large Risk.
» empathy on September 27th, 2011, 2:11pm
Thanks not only for doing the right thing regarding matias067, but also for stating a clear and sensible position about how you as a site feel about the current state of the "game"
People don't make enough of their own decisions these days, it's not up to someone else to make up your mind for you.
People don't make enough of their own decisions these days, it's not up to someone else to make up your mind for you.
» thevampirate on September 27th, 2011, 5:06pm
I agree that it is good to make a decision however I think that it is a shame that the decision had to be made in the first place. MU shouldn't have to draw lines in the sand about what people do on other sites however this one individual forced this outcome and only has himself to blame for being banned.
As a side note I'm glad that Manick & Lambchopsil added in "We do not support and try to actively spread the word against profiteering off the backs of scanlators." its a good policy to have an can be seen by the adfree nature of the site.
As a side note I'm glad that Manick & Lambchopsil added in "We do not support and try to actively spread the word against profiteering off the backs of scanlators." its a good policy to have an can be seen by the adfree nature of the site.
» StaticHD on September 27th, 2011, 3:02pm
MangaUpdates should be thanking matias067 for his services to their damn site.
Without matias067, most of the manga that we see on mangaupdates would have been ignored or forgotten to be noticed. Some scanlation groups die and their chapters go missing to the public. But look up at the sky; is it a plane, a bird? No it's matias067 uploading the missing chapter on mangafox for everyone to read and enjoy. Matias067 should be looked upon and seen as a hero to manga readers around the world, and not a damn villain.
You f-ckers need to give back matias067 his position as a staff. Stop discriminating because scanlators are threatening that they'd stop providing releasing information through mangaupdates.
Think about it, you fired your own most loyal staff because of other sites and parties that has nothing to do with what you believe in (as you claim that you want people to buy from publishers) but in the end, you just want people to think your staffs are pure angels.
What's next? Removing staff members that upload too much hentai?
That is why you call yourselves BAKA!!!!!
And if you are laughing at my comment, you can go f-ck yourselves.
Without matias067, most of the manga that we see on mangaupdates would have been ignored or forgotten to be noticed. Some scanlation groups die and their chapters go missing to the public. But look up at the sky; is it a plane, a bird? No it's matias067 uploading the missing chapter on mangafox for everyone to read and enjoy. Matias067 should be looked upon and seen as a hero to manga readers around the world, and not a damn villain.
You f-ckers need to give back matias067 his position as a staff. Stop discriminating because scanlators are threatening that they'd stop providing releasing information through mangaupdates.
Think about it, you fired your own most loyal staff because of other sites and parties that has nothing to do with what you believe in (as you claim that you want people to buy from publishers) but in the end, you just want people to think your staffs are pure angels.
What's next? Removing staff members that upload too much hentai?
That is why you call yourselves BAKA!!!!!
And if you are laughing at my comment, you can go f-ck yourselves.
» dosetsu on September 27th, 2011, 3:31pm
That's a pretty cool comment you left.
» StaticHD on September 28th, 2011, 2:44pm
Thanks I try.» cvazir on September 27th, 2011, 3:34pm
while I won't be jerking off, I did laugh at your comment. For purposes of archiving, there's mangatraders, who unlike most aggregators, don't ruin the quality by resizing.
Besides that, they did thank him. And finally, there's more than enough release mods now. Since the recruitment, the list has been populated.
P.S
matias wasn't loyal, otherwise he'd listen to the warning given to him.
Besides that, they did thank him. And finally, there's more than enough release mods now. Since the recruitment, the list has been populated.
P.S
matias wasn't loyal, otherwise he'd listen to the warning given to him.
» StaticHD on September 28th, 2011, 2:48pm
So you did laugh, eh?
Oh, so there are more release mods now? Is that it?
So if there wasn't allot of good release mods out there, they wouldn't have thrown him away?
P.S
matias067 may not have been as loyal as he should have been, but he was well dedicated to get the job done. Probably the most dedicated staff member mangaupdates ever had.
Oh, so there are more release mods now? Is that it?
So if there wasn't allot of good release mods out there, they wouldn't have thrown him away?
P.S
matias067 may not have been as loyal as he should have been, but he was well dedicated to get the job done. Probably the most dedicated staff member mangaupdates ever had.
» Scyfon on September 27th, 2011, 3:41pm
LMFAO
Fanboy alert!
Fanboy alert!
» StaticHD on September 28th, 2011, 2:52pm
Because I quoted some superman script of some comic/animated show, doesn't make me a fanboy.
It just makes me knowledgeable enough to get people to understand where I'm coming from.
I'm trying to make people see what matias067 was really supposed to be seen as = a hero.
It just makes me knowledgeable enough to get people to understand where I'm coming from.
I'm trying to make people see what matias067 was really supposed to be seen as = a hero.
» Scyfon on September 28th, 2011, 3:48pm
Err...yes it does.
For you to be so passionate (I mean, seriously, you just replied to every comment made to your declaration of your raging hard-on for matias067), so loyal to a pariah of a community - even going as far as calling him a 'hero', being called a fanboy is something you should have expected.
Besides, don't be so proud of your "knowledge". Any oldfag could tell you that there are many sources of "missing chapter" other than your shitty manga-reader site. Just because you and a handful of other people were too lazy and stupid enough not to know how to look for shit, doesn't mean everyone else was too.
For you to be so passionate (I mean, seriously, you just replied to every comment made to your declaration of your raging hard-on for matias067), so loyal to a pariah of a community - even going as far as calling him a 'hero', being called a fanboy is something you should have expected.
Besides, don't be so proud of your "knowledge". Any oldfag could tell you that there are many sources of "missing chapter" other than your shitty manga-reader site. Just because you and a handful of other people were too lazy and stupid enough not to know how to look for shit, doesn't mean everyone else was too.
» uzumakiwalid on September 27th, 2011, 4:14pm
I smell fanboy, or maybe matias067 himself?
» StaticHD on September 28th, 2011, 2:53pm
I'm not matias067. I'm me.
» uzumakiwalid on October 1st, 2011, 7:43pm
i know, i know. just kidding, but those are pretty cool comment though lol
» thevampirate on September 27th, 2011, 4:46pm
I'm 99% certain that matias did not get banned and therefore can still submit chapters for approval like EVERY SINGLE MEMBER of the site. the privilege he lost was the ability to approve releases other people submit. the problem with him was the fact that he publicly presented himself as a mod here and uploaded manga against the scanlators wishes multiple times. When asked to stop he refused and so then they went to the mods here to complain. Matias got a minor slap on the wrist and its not that big of a deal, I know I hope that he continues to support MU with reporting releases but if he doesn't I would understand.
» StaticHD on September 28th, 2011, 3:02pm
I know the details. You don't have to explain a whole damn summary to me.
So in the end, you f-cking hope that he continues to support BAKAupdates with reporting releases?
They've just embarrassed the guy in broad daylight. There is no way for people to know which release he reported. What he will do on MU won't even be recognized (not like it did in past on MU though). Now he's been humiliated and there is no way he can recover or regain better circumstances in regards to how he is looked at. His credentials as a previous staff member has been demoted to the lowest of the lowest, never to be recognized as someone who helped thousands of people read the manga that was so hard to grab from scanlation sources.
But to be seen as a loser and a lowlife.
So in the end, you f-cking hope that he continues to support BAKAupdates with reporting releases?
They've just embarrassed the guy in broad daylight. There is no way for people to know which release he reported. What he will do on MU won't even be recognized (not like it did in past on MU though). Now he's been humiliated and there is no way he can recover or regain better circumstances in regards to how he is looked at. His credentials as a previous staff member has been demoted to the lowest of the lowest, never to be recognized as someone who helped thousands of people read the manga that was so hard to grab from scanlation sources.
But to be seen as a loser and a lowlife.
» Manick on September 28th, 2011, 3:08pm
Here is a list of releases he has reported.
http://www.mangaupdates.com/releases.html?act=archive& added_by=118339
Matias was a good staff release moderator, and I'm sad to see him go. However, he made his choice, and people consistently reported violations. There's not much we can do. Losing him will be a loss, but it's something that had to be done.
-m
http://www.mangaupdates.com/releases.html?act=archive& added_by=118339
Matias was a good staff release moderator, and I'm sad to see him go. However, he made his choice, and people consistently reported violations. There's not much we can do. Losing him will be a loss, but it's something that had to be done.
-m
» archknight on September 27th, 2011, 5:59pm
your funny,
release mod don't always make release post, we only approve them after we check them. most groups make their own release post when they are release. It wouldn't change a thing with or without him aside from less hate from the scanlation community.
release mod don't always make release post, we only approve them after we check them. most groups make their own release post when they are release. It wouldn't change a thing with or without him aside from less hate from the scanlation community.
» StaticHD on September 28th, 2011, 3:07pm
I'm funny? That better be a compliment because you're not amusing.
So, is this about scanlators? or is this about publishers?
I guess if the publishers behaved exactly the same way that the scanlators behave towards matias067, mangafox, mangahere ....mangaupdates would be forced to ban scanlators/scanlation releases to their site.
So, is this about scanlators? or is this about publishers?
I guess if the publishers behaved exactly the same way that the scanlators behave towards matias067, mangafox, mangahere ....mangaupdates would be forced to ban scanlators/scanlation releases to their site.
» RiK.dfs on September 27th, 2011, 7:16pm
The scanlators had complaints about his actions as they went against THEIR wishes (which is important since THEY did the work).
He was warned (multiple times).
He ignored those warnings (multiple times).
Brought it on himself.
It's just that simple. End of the story.
He was warned (multiple times).
He ignored those warnings (multiple times).
Brought it on himself.
It's just that simple. End of the story.
» StaticHD on September 28th, 2011, 3:11pm
Scanlators don't own the manga they release. They only edit the manga, it doesn't actually mean they have permission to behave that it is their own. Plus, the fact that they release it for the public to take, means that they are already willingly contributing aggregating sites. They may not want to, but it has already begun. They should just deal with it.
The "Batoto" website will NOT change a DAMN thing.
The "Batoto" website will NOT change a DAMN thing.
» auriga on September 27th, 2011, 8:10pm
Your post is just so flawed I don't even know where to begin hacking it apart.
» StaticHD on September 28th, 2011, 3:13pm
The right thing to do is to not read it at all because your brain isn't accustomed to understanding genius.
» auriga on September 28th, 2011, 6:55pm
If by "genius" you mean "stubborn fanboyism with a huge sense of entitlement who only knows how to resort to argumentum ad hominems," you're right; I am not accustomed to understanding that.
Oh wait, I do understand that. You're just nothing but an attention hog with a lot of time on his hands.
Oh wait, I do understand that. You're just nothing but an attention hog with a lot of time on his hands.
» hollabaloo on September 27th, 2011, 8:34pm
angry thirteen year old fanboy (or possibly troll) alert, whee woo whee woo
» StaticHD on September 28th, 2011, 3:16pm
I'm not a preteen. I'm allot older.
And seriously? ..."whee woo whee wooo??" ...says the guy named "hollabaloo"
You're probably one of those old geezers...
And seriously? ..."whee woo whee wooo??" ...says the guy named "hollabaloo"
You're probably one of those old geezers...
» hollabaloo on September 28th, 2011, 6:22pm
I guess your sarcasm detector isn't working, huh? Geez, if you're going to be a troll, at least be a funny one.
» MewMan on September 27th, 2011, 9:30pm
the first emissary from MF/MH... ><
» StaticHD on September 28th, 2011, 3:16pm
I'm not an emissary from MF/MH.
I'm just saying what is fact you asswiper.
I'm just saying what is fact you asswiper.
» Milleniummaster18 on September 28th, 2011, 12:09am
Ha ha ha.
"We can troll if we want to.
If we don't, nobody will"
"We can troll if we want to.
If we don't, nobody will"
» kawaiiusagichan on September 28th, 2011, 4:46am
You can go f-ck yourself instead of asking others to do so.
Manick and Lamb have shown that they are morally upright individuals, unlike you and your idol.
Manick and Lamb have shown that they are morally upright individuals, unlike you and your idol.
» StaticHD on September 28th, 2011, 3:22pm
He is not my idol ....so why don't you go f-ck yourself.
Manick and Lamb are just deceiving themselves. They are only delaying the inevitable.
They aren't making a difference either way. You think Matias067 is the only staff member on MangaFox that are uploading beasts?
In my opinion, they've just motivated the staffs of aggregation websites that don't follow the rules.
Like they said, using different usernames or email addresses might me one way to get a job done.
But there are other means of getting information as well.
Manick and Lamb are just deceiving themselves. They are only delaying the inevitable.
They aren't making a difference either way. You think Matias067 is the only staff member on MangaFox that are uploading beasts?
In my opinion, they've just motivated the staffs of aggregation websites that don't follow the rules.
Like they said, using different usernames or email addresses might me one way to get a job done.
But there are other means of getting information as well.
» Crenshinibon on September 28th, 2011, 8:54pm
'the people you want to punish will adapt' is never a valid reason for not enforcing a policy.
» StarlightDreams on September 28th, 2011, 3:57pm
lol'ing at your comment, and I won't go fuck myself. Why do you bother censoring the word fuck?
You're treating matias like a hero that came to the needs of thousands of people who visit manga reader sites that want to read manga. But you know what else came out of him uploading those thousands of releases to online manga readers? Furthered attention on scanlation for Japanese and English publishers to see. What comes of that? C&D letters which will inevitably cause scanlation to be subjected to lawsuits and copyright issues.
So please just get the fuck out of this place that you seem to have an unjustifiable hate for. And, really, is BAKAupdates the best insult you can come up with?
You're treating matias like a hero that came to the needs of thousands of people who visit manga reader sites that want to read manga. But you know what else came out of him uploading those thousands of releases to online manga readers? Furthered attention on scanlation for Japanese and English publishers to see. What comes of that? C&D letters which will inevitably cause scanlation to be subjected to lawsuits and copyright issues.
So please just get the fuck out of this place that you seem to have an unjustifiable hate for. And, really, is BAKAupdates the best insult you can come up with?
» gwkimmy on September 28th, 2011, 6:36pm
OH MY GOD I DON'T KNOW HOW TO GO TO A SCANLATOR'S SITE, WHICH IS LISTED ON EVERY SINGLE MANGA RELEASE THEY MAKE, AND CHECK FOR AN UPDATE. OH JESUS WHATEVER WILL I DO NOW.
really? troll harder. your pre-teen-ness is showing. still lol-ing forever.
really? troll harder. your pre-teen-ness is showing. still lol-ing forever.
» Azula on September 30th, 2011, 10:52am
I think you are right. Matias deserves respect for what he did. Scanlators are just haters.
» kawaiiusagichan on September 30th, 2011, 11:46am
I think you should grow a brain.
» auriga on September 30th, 2011, 5:32pm
If "scanlators are just haters" I wonder why you still patronize them by reading manga.
» hollabaloo on September 30th, 2011, 7:33pm
Don't feed the troll, guys.
» StaticHD on September 30th, 2011, 7:42pm
Take it easy. I think she was just joking (I hope she was). As I was just joking.
I scanlate for 23 different groups. It is just funny to read replies on ridiculous controversial topics.
The truth of the who matter is that scanlators mainly want recognition for their releases on the manga they work on. Honestly, these online reading sites are there for good intentions, but they drag too much attention away from the real sources who actually provide their reading credentials. The problem is that most of these online reading sites fail to accept or respect the requests and circumstances that their main sources give them. These online reading sites ignore the responsibilities of keeping hold on what is right & wrong. These aggregation sites also ignore English & Japanese publishers who request some of their manga to be taken down. (Example: Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, etc.)
Do scanlators have the ULTIMATE right to tell these websites to stop distributing their releases to their reading public? The answer is no. The main reason is because scanlators are not in true ownership of the drawn material they release.
Are scanlators hypocritical to uploaders, online reading sites, and other fellow scanlation groups? The answer is yes. Although scanlators take extra effort to feed the manga fanatic hunger, they still fulfill a purpose which relates to almost any thief out there. Which is this: Doing things without permission, without authorization, without documentation, and without formal approval in regards to creators feelings.
Yes, some scanlators do gain permission from publishers, but that is only 1% of the scanlating population. So although aggregation websites also profit off the backs of scanlators - scanlators are also finding plenty of ways to do the same to publishers & creators.
Now, is making our own decision about our association with the scanlation community and these online reading sites really the answer to the solution? Doesn't everyone want someone to enforce the rules that must be ultimately followed? But then again, aren't rules meant to be broken? But I think if scanlators really want to be obeyed, they should gain permission from the publishers that are in charge of the manga they edit. They should also follow the examples of other watermarking scanlation groups (MangaStream, A-Team, Japanzai, XscansX). Also trying to get a message across. They have to provide links to publishing websites that provide the manga to buy or to creators website to show thanks. They can't take all the credit for themselves on the credit pages.
So in the end, the problem lies with how serious scanlators are willing to take their courage and shake the online reading foundation to crazy heights of recognition. they need to watermark their pages. ALL OF THEM. NOT JUST ONE. If not, no bad decision will be changed to a good decision.
I scanlate for 23 different groups. It is just funny to read replies on ridiculous controversial topics.
The truth of the who matter is that scanlators mainly want recognition for their releases on the manga they work on. Honestly, these online reading sites are there for good intentions, but they drag too much attention away from the real sources who actually provide their reading credentials. The problem is that most of these online reading sites fail to accept or respect the requests and circumstances that their main sources give them. These online reading sites ignore the responsibilities of keeping hold on what is right & wrong. These aggregation sites also ignore English & Japanese publishers who request some of their manga to be taken down. (Example: Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, etc.)
Do scanlators have the ULTIMATE right to tell these websites to stop distributing their releases to their reading public? The answer is no. The main reason is because scanlators are not in true ownership of the drawn material they release.
Are scanlators hypocritical to uploaders, online reading sites, and other fellow scanlation groups? The answer is yes. Although scanlators take extra effort to feed the manga fanatic hunger, they still fulfill a purpose which relates to almost any thief out there. Which is this: Doing things without permission, without authorization, without documentation, and without formal approval in regards to creators feelings.
Yes, some scanlators do gain permission from publishers, but that is only 1% of the scanlating population. So although aggregation websites also profit off the backs of scanlators - scanlators are also finding plenty of ways to do the same to publishers & creators.
Now, is making our own decision about our association with the scanlation community and these online reading sites really the answer to the solution? Doesn't everyone want someone to enforce the rules that must be ultimately followed? But then again, aren't rules meant to be broken? But I think if scanlators really want to be obeyed, they should gain permission from the publishers that are in charge of the manga they edit. They should also follow the examples of other watermarking scanlation groups (MangaStream, A-Team, Japanzai, XscansX). Also trying to get a message across. They have to provide links to publishing websites that provide the manga to buy or to creators website to show thanks. They can't take all the credit for themselves on the credit pages.
So in the end, the problem lies with how serious scanlators are willing to take their courage and shake the online reading foundation to crazy heights of recognition. they need to watermark their pages. ALL OF THEM. NOT JUST ONE. If not, no bad decision will be changed to a good decision.
» ZL11 on September 30th, 2011, 10:00pm
...yeah, I'm going to reiterate a statement I made earlier: HOW does watermarking actually affect the aggregation? Explain this to me, please, I'm begging here. No one has told me HOW consistent and blatant watermarking solves this issue. Is there PROOF of this succeeding somewhere, or it just URBAN LEGEND? I mean, seriously, some scanlators have become ridiculous with this watermarking trend, and, from a leeching stand point, it DOESN'T serve its purpose. People still upload it. People still break the rules. People DON'T care, and watermarking it is nothing more than peeing on your "property." (I put that in quotes because, as you said, scanlators don't own it.) Seriously, I want proof that watermarking WORKS as a means of preventing unwanted distribution. Someone enlighten me. I'm not trying to be an asshole; it's just, as a fellow leecher, I have never seen it work. Ever. Please educate me.
» dosetsu on September 30th, 2011, 10:07pm
Like basically any type of "insult," it depends on what the watermarking actually says.
» archknight on October 1st, 2011, 12:31am
I think it works....because the more people that complain about it, the more attention it get. How it actually affects people is another story though. I like how watermarks ruins the manga a bit, so people who wants to collect manga should actually go buy the real thing instead of just getting it for free and at a decent quality.
» ZL11 on October 1st, 2011, 6:00am
Um, just in case that's directed at me, I buy a lot of hardcopy in Japanese and English. That's a "just in case." People complaining and people doing something about it are two different things. I can imagine the complaints, but it continues, both the watermarking and the sharing. So, even if people complain and whine, they are still doing what the scanlators' are trying to make them stop. It's an honor system, really. A sort of "Honor amongst thieves" is what we're going for. If people aren't honorable, then, they're not. Scanlation groups have even closed due to people STILL sharing regardless of their wishes, and it still doesn't work. It still doesn't stop the sharing. So, I can name groups where it doesn't work to back up my arguments... but it's hard to find positive proof of success. Well, MAYBE one... but that was obnoxious as hell, and, as a consequence, another group was formed to distribute that particular comic. It's funny, really. To quote Serenity, "You can't stop the signal." 
» Sachins on October 1st, 2011, 8:56pm
I think watermarking isn't meant to stop the spreading of the manga. As far as I know, watermarking has been done on scanlations since early scanlators like MangaProject, only it was small and only their website and credit staff listed. It has only gotten more bigger, more obnoxious or more louder since online aggregators came online.. mainly due to the scanlators need to let people know who have done the work and not let anyone else take credit. For example, newbies often think MangaFox and/or MangaHere were the one who done the scanlation.
» ZL11 on October 2nd, 2011, 4:07am
Hmmm... I can accept those reasons. Unfortunately, I've read a couple of scanlators' sites where they SAY, "We are watermarking to this extent to punish EVERYONE for people sharing. When the sharing stops, the watermarking stops." Obnoxious and fruitless. I don't mind the ones stamped in there to proclaim ownership, but ones use to "punish" are stupid.
» Milleniummaster18 on September 28th, 2011, 12:16am
At last, we're finished with this controversial chapter.
Back to what we do everyday. See you guys at the next show.
Back to what we do everyday. See you guys at the next show.
» deadphoenix on September 30th, 2011, 1:29am
I agree that this is the best sanction, but I've got the feeling that it solves the problem.
Well, the only thing a scanlation group can do is releasing a chapter page by page, this will give them trouble I guess (staff can impossible handle it, to update the stuff 17-30 times.)
Well, the only thing a scanlation group can do is releasing a chapter page by page, this will give them trouble I guess (staff can impossible handle it, to update the stuff 17-30 times.)
» ZL11 on September 30th, 2011, 4:47pm
How does it solve the problem? He's not banned off the site. He can still get scanlations and post them to aggregators without permission, only this time, not hampered by MU. It's all MU could do as a final resort to keep scanlators happy, but it's not necessarily fixing the problem. Rather, if I were him, and I was feeling vindictive, I'd do it with even more gusto, since nothing is holding me back at that point. Hmm... but that's IMHO.
» auriga on September 30th, 2011, 5:28pm
That's right. However, he now has to do it sans his moderator powers. He could do it, but it would be easier if he still has the same level of access to updates as release moderators do.
» Phreaker on October 2nd, 2011, 1:39pm
i don't support mangafox action but this thing is getting more and more ridiculous, because a few people/site at fault. now everyone get to be punished?
as a scanlator/reader/leecher what ever you want to call me, i don't mind watermark as long its not annoyingly BIG, i also support release delay, but a Fake release? and 26 page of them? (like japanzai did with aiki, no offense prozess) cmon!!
no matter what the reason you scanlate (wanted to share, bigger e-peen, make money,etc), after you release it, it will get shared everywhere, just like MU said, you just can't control the internet.
and there are better way to deal with mangafox, some are probably not legal but it will get better result.
as a scanlator/reader/leecher what ever you want to call me, i don't mind watermark as long its not annoyingly BIG, i also support release delay, but a Fake release? and 26 page of them? (like japanzai did with aiki, no offense prozess) cmon!!
no matter what the reason you scanlate (wanted to share, bigger e-peen, make money,etc), after you release it, it will get shared everywhere, just like MU said, you just can't control the internet.
and there are better way to deal with mangafox, some are probably not legal but it will get better result.
» hollabaloo on October 2nd, 2011, 7:06pm
I pretty much agree with this. I have no problems with restricting releases to forum members on their site or having IRC releases only. However, when scanlators make it impossible for latecomers to get all the releases for a series or even slip random hentai pages into those fake releases to "punish" people who have the audacity to read the release on mangafox (yes, there is a group who has done this before) I just look for a new group instead. :/
» Naeko on October 9th, 2011, 2:16am
Rather than having the aggregators profit from the stuff they copy without having done any real work, why not try to j-Comi.jp host out of print manga scanlated manga titles? It is a site created by Ken Akamatsu in partnership with Shuiesha and Kodansha to provide an alternative to piracy that supports the original authors and artists of out of print works. Rather than view or download from aggregators, fans can visit J-Comi.JP instead and view or download there. The money obtained from advertisers and from the optional hentai access fee of $1.40 per month for hentai manga and hentai doujins goes to the author/artists after the cost of running the site by the PR firm is taken out. Ken Akamatsu is not compensated by it. This is an innovative non-profit service to bring money back to the authors and artists for out of print works and addresses the problem of piracy as well as the problem of aggregators profiting without ever having done anything in the content creation process.
animenewsnetwork.com 2011-09-16/akamatsu-j-comi-tests-pay-service-with-adult-m anga-dojinshi
animenewsnetwork.com 2011-10-03/akamatsu-j-comi-site-posts-adult-manga-restric ted-by-tokyo-law
Currently, the site hosts japanese versions, but Ken Akamatsu is working on making the english version of the site available with english versions of out of print works.
animenewsnetwork.com 2011-09-16/akamatsu-j-comi-tests-pay-service-with-adult-m anga-dojinshi
animenewsnetwork.com 2011-10-03/akamatsu-j-comi-site-posts-adult-manga-restric ted-by-tokyo-law
Currently, the site hosts japanese versions, but Ken Akamatsu is working on making the english version of the site available with english versions of out of print works.
