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New Poll - Cheating/Infidelity
This week's poll was suggested by SaoSurvivor. It's the only forum post he (or she) has ever written, and it's an interesting question, so why not? I'm pretty sure cheating/infidelity is considered illegal in some countries (even if I don't know any off the top of my head)

You can submit poll ideas here
http://www.mangaupdates.com/showtopic.php?tid=3903

Previous Poll Results:
Question: About your teeth
Choices:
Yellow teeth are fine as long as they're healthy - votes: 2011 (58.7%)
White teeth are a must - votes: 995 (29%)
I don't really care about my teeth - votes: 421 (12.3%)
There were 3427 total votes.
The poll ended: August 7th 2021

I could use braces...
Posted by lambchopsil on 
August 7th 5:47pm
Comments ( 37 )  
[ View ]  [ Add ]
Comments

» Rouzmary on August 7th, 2021, 11:43am

I was surprised to see that the huge majority voted no.

Now I'm wondering - why?
Do they not mind that their spouse/boyfriend/girlfriend/etc cheats on them?
Or are they the ones who do the cheating and thus don't want to be punished?
Hmmm...

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» HikaruYami on August 7th, 2021, 12:41pm

lol dude what are you TALKING about

I voted "no" and literally came here to add that I think the civil penalties for it should go beyond prenup clauses. I think cheating causes legitimate emotional damages that the cheated spouse should be able to sue to recover, the same way you can sue someone for other emotionally-toiling damages.

Do you even understand the difference between criminal and civil law? Criminal law would mean you can be imprisoned or fined by the government for cheating, which is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

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» kurotaito on August 7th, 2021, 1:12pm

I agree with HikaruYami that cheating/infidelity isnt criminal. Civil laws should be better on the matter, though.

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» Crowned_Cumber on August 7th, 2021, 3:07pm

Agreed. Also, people should be able to sue if they contract an STD due to the partner cheating. Apparently that is actually a pretty big thing. Cheater should be the one paying any medical bills caused by their actions.

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» Transdude1996 on August 7th, 2021, 4:45pm

Quote from Crowned_Cumber
Also, people should be able to sue if they contract an STD due to the partner cheating.

That was illegal. Now, having an STD is treated like it's a big fat joke. Because, somehow, lacking the self-control to keep your legs shut or prevent your meatstick from penetrating every hole in sight is now considered a disability.

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» blackluna on August 7th, 2021, 6:28pm

In what country?!

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» residentgrigo on August 7th, 2021, 1:39pm

No. There are endless reasons for his, even historic proof that it would be a bad idea. The police and justice system also already how more than enough power.

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» Katsono on August 10th, 2021, 11:47am

Quote from residentgrigo
No. There are endless reasons for his, even historic proof that it would be a bad idea. The police and justice system also already how more than enough power.


Pretty much this. I'm a law graduate and some answers are a bit shocking to read.

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» redlinks on August 7th, 2021, 1:40pm

I also agree with HikaruYami. Being jailed for cheating is incredibly stupid. Yeah sure, your feelings might be hurt but they're doing you a favor by showing you their true colors. Why waste your time on that?

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» Animechic420 on August 7th, 2021, 1:41pm

Cheating may not be considered a crime in some places, but it's most certainly a sin and anyone who cheats is definitely going to Hell.

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» Shippou_Incognito on August 7th, 2021, 1:48pm

"Do as thou wilt, shall be the whole of the law".

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» Transdude1996 on August 7th, 2021, 1:48pm

I selected yes, but with the caveat in mind that I'm only thinking in perspectives of marriage. Two people dating and one of them cheats, that's a personal issue that the courts have no ZERO business to get involved with. However, once the ring goes on, you're receiving tax breaks for the sole purpose of producing a child (Which is why I oppose "gay marriage", but perfectly fine with civil unions), thereby getting the government involved in your personal affairs by default. With all that in mind, if you're married, and you cheat on your spouse, yes, you should be penalized in some capacity.

However, then there's Utah...

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» Contently on August 7th, 2021, 2:21pm

Quote from Transdude1996
Two people dating and one of them cheats, that's a personal issue that the courts have no ZERO business to get involved with.

I agree.
Cheating while married should also be susceptible to civil lawsuits, not criminal, as the government has no place for benefits in such situations.
I disagree with your 'sole purpose of producing a child'. By your logic infertile women can only settle on civil unions and never be considered married even if its hetero.

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» Transdude1996 on August 7th, 2021, 2:55pm

Quote from Contently
I disagree with your 'sole purpose of producing a child'. By your logic infertile women can only settle on civil unions and never be considered married even if its hetero.

All I said was that that was purpose of those laws. But, I do have to agree and acknowledge those are not always the actual results. Some roommates of the opposite sex do get married for the purposes of the tax breaks, with zero intention of procreation. However, there are also the cases of said relationships eventually resulting in children. So, the discussion goes both ways. Also, with some of the medical advancements happening, sterility is increasingly less of an issue.

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» Contently on August 7th, 2021, 3:16pm

Denying marital benefits and status to gay couples because they can't 'produce' a child is pretty wild. Especially considering that adoption exists.
But this is going too far off topic. I believe a civil lawsuit should become a proper response to infidelity in marriage (hetero or homo in nature), even more so if there are children involved (biological or adopted)🙂

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» mallika23 on August 7th, 2021, 10:38pm

Quote
I selected yes, but with the caveat in mind that I'm only thinking in perspectives of marriage. Two people dating and one of them cheats, that's a personal issue that the courts have no ZERO business to get involved with.


I agree with you.. But that's why I have a hard time to choose yes and no. 😂 It depends on the context. YES they should be punished by criminal law if they're married and cheating (not to mention when they have children). NO if they're not married..

In the end I decided not to choose either. Lol.

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» blackluna on August 7th, 2021, 5:25pm

As morally reprehensible as cheating is, getting the law involved would be a major problem.

There's the issue of privacy, first — and that's one right we should never let go of, never. (There's a reason a warrant is required in the States to break it.) Then there's the issue of different types of relationships and how they're defined; the problems of when the partners don't see things the same way, the state of the other relationship, the reason for the sexual contact, potential of false allegations, etc. Not to mention the issue of setting bad precedent. And while civil suits are sometimes used for relationships that were supposed to be solid (mostly marriage, since others don't typically leave documentation that may be used as evidence), there's a very good reason it's no longer a criminal offence in the civilized world.

As for STDs — it's typically only legally punishable when either someone knowingly transmitted it to an unknowing partner or when someone found out they had one or might have carried one and consciously decided not to inform those who might be at risk due to that. Not all STDs are exclusively transmitted by sexual contact, not all sexual contact is connected to a relationship on either side, and not all sexual contact is voluntary (i.e. rape). Due to these factors, transmission of an illness of any kind is a separate issue, altogether (and yes, people have been convicted for that kind of behaviour).

Answering "no" does not mean that you don't mind cheating; it means that you don't want the law and government involved. After all, there was a time when adultery was a legal offence in the Americas and Europe (primarily for women, but, to a lesser extent, also for men) — there's a very good reason that civilized countries no longer do so. (Try The Scarlet Letter for starters: the "adulteress" had every reason to think her husband had been lost at sea; he wasn't. There are other cases where one party wants to get rid of the other and so on. Human relationships are complicated, so…) Instead, cheating is solid grounds for divorce with extra compensation for the side that was cheated on (which mattered more when divorce was harder to obtain). And, even for those who do not believe in divorce (e.g. Catholics), depending on the circumstances, it can be solid grounds for legal separation or even annulment. Additionally, cheating is almost always a social taboo, with many cheaters getting their just desserts on a social level.

Answering "yes" is both opening a nasty can of worms and going backwards regarding basic rights.

So, yeah, basic civil law. Don't ignore it, please.

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» dreamer00013 on August 8th, 2021, 2:38am

This. This sums it up very nicely. I don't think I need to add anything more.

But I have to say, considering how many people actually appear to cheat, I'm surprised everyone here hates it. I'd think we've got at least some fidelity breakers ourselves here who want to protest their actions.
Then again, being cheated on always sucks.

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» hahhah42 on August 8th, 2021, 3:58am

Quote
But I have to say, considering how many people actually appear to cheat, I'm surprised everyone here hates it. I'd think we've got at least some fidelity breakers ourselves here who want to protest their actions.

In my (secondhand) experience, people who engage in infidelity tend to get very upset when the shoe is on the other foot. Generally speaking, I've been unsympathetic to their complaints.

On the other hand, it's still infuriating to hear of cheaters prospering as a result of their cheating. I knew a guy who was having a long-term affair with a married woman, which he broke off after she got pregnant with a third man's children. Her husband, who had apparently been willfully blind to her first affair, finally realized she was unfaithful at that point and divorced her.

She wound up getting child support from all three men, plus took half the husband's assets. (She had 5 children—one from the husband, two from the guy I knew, and twins with the 3rd guy.) Not exactly a disincentive for her behavior.

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» HikaruYami on August 10th, 2021, 10:59am

dreamer00013:

how many cheaters with long-term accounts want their account to be associated with an actual defense cheating? If anyone here was actually defending cheating I'd immediately check their account creation date and expect it to be "within the last week". They'd 100% have to be a troll.

hahhah42:

Yeah, that type of absolutely insane scenario is exactly why I said at the top that civil law should be harsher on established cheaters when the spurned seek to recover damages. Child support is one thing (in theory, the entire point of child support is for the child) and should've been recovered from the actual father(s), but to also get half of her husband's assets at that point is completely asinine. Our civil laws suck.

Definitely shouldn't be a criminal law though.

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» ZiBaXn on August 7th, 2021, 5:33pm

Well not "criminal" like go to jail, but there should be a punishment all the same, maybe an extra fine...if the infedelity results in a divorce sparked by the party that was cheated on. I will say that this should really only apply to marriages where the union is legally binding. Boyfriend, fiance, or whatnot...if your partner cheats on you then that is your problem since you didn't enter a legally binding arrangement with them. However if your union is legally binding, then yeah if someone cheats (and the person seeks a divorce because of this) some compensation from the cheater to the "victim" can be allowed.


Now I say this because ideally it sounds nice, hence the yes. However, I reserve the right to equally state that cheating compared to say embezzlement or burglary is pretty harmless. I think with the current society of holding people's past against them 10 years after an event might make being a "cheater" a tag one can't escape from or redeem themselves of. If the crime was murder, then it's understandable. I think ideally, a person who cheats (again in a marriage) should have to compensate the other party for harm (since you can always separate or divorce/annulment if catholic) but with a specific condition. Person A cheats on Person B, thus Person B is emotionally scarred and prompts to divorce Person A. The courts should fine Person A for cheating as the divorce process continues. If Person B doesn't divorce Person A for infidelity, then no punishment for Person A should be given by the government.


But the question really would boil down, if this process of punishing a cheating spouse won't be abused

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» blackluna on August 7th, 2021, 6:14pm

If would be abused, since it would require either a loss of privacy or poorly worded legislation to be put into place. And people take advantage of what they can.

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» Transdude1996 on August 7th, 2021, 6:45pm

Technically, there's nothing preventing abuse of those laws right now. You mentioned how those laws were enforced until about a century ago, and upon review, those laws still actually exist; with the severest laws in the U.S. being in Idaho, Wisconsin, Michigan, Oklahoma, and Massachusetts. The big question, however, is how they're enforced. Apparently, the last time there was an infidelity lawsuit was over a decade ago. And, since then, how spousal disputes are settled have been entirely flipped on it's head with #MeToo basing it's entire premise around "guilty until proven innocent" regardless of any and all facts.

So, thinking about it, the question seems to be less how they will be enforced and more how will they be judged in court.

Quote from blackluna
In what country?!

Both the articles I linked about STDs were about the U.S., but here's one about England.

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» yuno19 on August 7th, 2021, 10:31pm

Mobilizing police force for this? LOL, that's insanity.

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» MarinBlue27 on August 7th, 2021, 10:35pm

I can see why some would want this to be a law for married couples but I believe this could go wrong very fast with government involvement. The flames of false accusations needs no more fuel. (Whoops typo)

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» Sugarshark on August 8th, 2021, 9:29am

in a perfect world I would say Yes;
but family law is already so very punitive in most places
you can follow the rules and be an adult, but you still lose all your assets and future income
and that's without cheating.
all the romantic notions about supporting your partner during their difficulties just makes the band-aid harder to pull off when they inevitably don't return to their baseline

there already is real punishment for cheating when you are tried in the court of public opinion; everyone is already familiar with concepts in cancel culture, victim blaming and equity distribution.

I am truly sorry for anyone who finds themselves in a position where their partner doesn't care for them anymore.

I have coworkers who are unhappy in their marriages and cheat with whomever wanders into the office.

Finding a partner when you're no longer 'young & dumb' is an exercise in abject futility

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» Joese on August 8th, 2021, 12:01pm

I put yes. I know a bunch of people that had (part of) their lives ruined because of a divorce/ terrible break-up even though they were cheated on. Ex: the person they cheated with beating or inducing someone to beat the other part up, extortion after being cheated, withdrawing the common account ...

Of course I'm considering were talking about adults and in an place where divorce and break-ups are common. I see no excuses for cheating on someone if a break-up is possible. I think there should be some kind of consequence if it wasn't limited to cheating or at least some way to link the legal procedures.

Currently some countries legally reflect the status of couple (even without marriage), with all the legal connotations and terms, they're sometimes open to additional clausules and some paralegal practices. It's a given that the disbandment of a couple is also reflected. It's pretty wild that after getting cheated on, having to pay all the negative consequences for it and some punishable stuff being overlooked because of the couple status.

Of course in the case that divorce isn't a possibility/is stigmatised or the couple was made without the total consent of both parts or a rape is being viewed as an infidelity , I think to problem would lie elsewhere.

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» ElKaichou on August 8th, 2021, 5:37pm

It's scummy, but I don't see it as something worth going to jail for. There's a thing called holding others accountable for their actions, you don't need to make every thing a law.

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» Trimutius on August 8th, 2021, 7:26pm

While cheating is bad... We don't need more people with criminal records...

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» Rezkhanoni on August 8th, 2021, 9:18pm

The fact that a lot of people here thinks that it's actually normal and it shouldn't be punished legally, explains the reason behind divorce rate. I just hope that my country won't become like one of those 'modern first world' shitholes.

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» Joese on August 10th, 2021, 4:38am

To be fair they're asking about if it should considered a punishable criminal law. I'm guessing if they'd put civil law or made an in between option the results would be different . Since most people aren't accustomed with some legal terms the Q/options and the question doesn't really consider what your country does:

Should cheating / infidelity be considered a punishable by law?
-Yes ,criminal law.
-Yes ,civil law.
-No.

Might be clearer/make people search for the difference.

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» Ams on August 13th, 2021, 2:36am

Leaving apart the question of infidelity, divorce is something which should only be discussed by the ones directly involved. No one should be forced to be in a toxic marriage. It not only affects the partners, but also their kids and relatives. The partners share their lives, but that does not mean they are bound to them.

Yes, infidelity is morally wrong, but they have their lives and it is a personal matter. The countries have already given you the right to marry, why should it make laws to help you get revenge if you cannot sustain it. The partners have to make some effort too, the county can't tell you everything to do.

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» HikaruYami on August 10th, 2021, 11:03am

Holy shit I literally explained the difference between criminal and civil law days ago and people are still coming here putting their own complete ignorance of said difference on blast.

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» zarlan on August 10th, 2021, 12:50pm

Is cheating despicable? Immoral? Unethical? Deplorable?
Absolutely!
Should it be punishable by law?
No, absolutely not!

There should be a punishment, in that people should strongly disapprove (though not forever, of course …unless the person keeps at it), but…
Not the state. Not laws. (except in that it can be used in divorce proceedings and the like, of course)

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» Vicis on August 12th, 2021, 9:12am

Really hoping that the majority of the 31.1% "Yes" voters were raised in a highly conservative country and have been conditioned to believe this shit since birth.

Otherwise this says TONS about the anime/manga community.

Well, I say hoping because I don't know what kind of audience this site has, but that hope is very slim given the last 20 years of my experience with the Manga/Anime community at large....

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» hkanz on August 15th, 2021, 9:24am

What would the penalty be? Paying a fine equal to the amount of trying one court case for infidelity plus any police time spent investigating? Because MY TAXES AREN’T PAYING FOR THIS lol.

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