Q: What kind of food do you eat most often?
1) Salty
2) Sweet
3) Italian
4) Green
5) Red
6) Meat
7) Processed
8) Low fat

I think the question of this poll is pretty clear, and if you don't think so, you're just being pedantic.

Even if you rape the dictionary definition of the term and claim that a demographic (i.e. target audience) is a genre, it still doesn't change the fact that this poll presents overlapping options as mutually exclusive. I think my post above contains a perfect analogy to demonstrate the silliness in this poll. Of course, if the poll I made up seems reasonable to you, then... well... I'm sorry.

Thank you for your tip I've read countless of ideas/thoughts on here from different topics. Some of which were very interesting and mature.
Anyhow, many elements in yaoi seem very shallow/superficial/unreal and even morally questionable, no? I believe ones initial intentions and expectations play a big role to oversee these things.
Well, it is fantasy after all and this is not an attempt to insult anyone's likings. All manga is some sort of escapism so I guess it is alright if it's innocent fun Bothers me a bit that some people that read yaoi are not as open minded as they "should" be though, and may come off as ignorant/insultive because of lack of knowledge and undelicate assumptions Maybe I'm alone in thinking so but maybe that's a maturity thing. I know it is individual

With my mindset, unfortunately, it seems like I doomed to only like certain seinen sometimes shoujo, sometimes shounen, sometimes story-oriented or such that are heavy on "foreplay/teasing" hentai :-)

I do have some questions though, but I'll keep to myself. Sometimes it's better not to know Good luck everyone! And thanks

However you like to view it. However base shiratori's comment was, SilverStorm failed to make a point. That was all I meant. I don't like either genre but I don't especially dislike them either, and I do respect the works on individual basis no matter if they're yaoi/yuri. Your objection is valid. I don't see your assumptions holding any relevance either though.

well, I am still curious where this hate comes from, I mean I can understand that people feel disgusted by that (I feel disgusted by beetroot), but I just don't see the reason for hating people who would just read this... (as long as they don't force me to eat that sorry excuse of a vegetable I don't see a reason to throw torches on them...)

Considering about 1/5 of us here on the forum is reading (mostly) yaoi, the number of encounters is ridiculously small.

And btw a non-yaoi-fandom-member started this whole thing... It's not even their fault ><
If yaoi-readers may choose between ignoring questions posed to them or answering and getting insulted/hated we have a serious problem here called bias/prejudice.

two banned members during this poll is just sad, because I thought if you want to be tolerated with your preferences, you should tolerate others too (as long as they don't interfere with you).

Never heard any complaints from the yuri section, that's something they should decide/suggest.

Although I'd prefer brevity, you instigated this debate with me, and I am neither fond of ignorant arguments nor leaving my own reasoning flawed.

Your questions are leading the debate away from my initial point. I hope you realize most of your arguments are ad hominems and straw men, fallacies distorting my position to make it easier to attack by:
A. Attacking my character (irrelevant to my position)
B. Quoting me out of context
C. Misrepresenting my position
You're denying the 'straw man', but missing the target, and I hate to defend silly arguments that I otherwise would not have to.

You state 'I've never encountered this', yet you turn around and accuse me of making 'general statements based on only how things work where you live in'.
I'm baffled, yes this is the case in my country, I would not speak for countries I've never lived in, I never once implied I was speaking for the entire world, in fact I stated it is my 'opinion' and perhaps the opinion of my peer group. The problem is subjective but true in my country, so it is not a relativist fallacy as you claim. Your debate seems to be trying to deny problems that exist in my country, where you've never lived or have lived for an extended period of time. This is what one would call 'prejudiced'.

A, Sexualization in most 'films' (minus porn) is neither the main plot, nor a subplot, and in films where sexualization is the plot, it's usually there to be deconstructed and establish moral standards. Sexualization being 'mainstream' does not excuse what it is, that is an appeal to popularity, being widely used does not make it any less severe. I separated LGBT from all types of sexualization because that is the issue I am discussing, refer to 'straw man'.
B. Illegal actions are most often characterized negatively in media and are shown to convey disgust/fear/hatred/tension to the audience, while 'loli'/'shota' manga exists to titillate the reader.

You asked me to explain why those fetishes are 'negative', and I don't wish to debate whether morals are objective or subjective, so let's just determine moral standard by what is common democratic law. Again I separate yaoi not because it is more severe than the others, but because that is the topic I am trying to discuss.

This argument is on a slippery slope, I do not wish to debate sexualization in all media, which is why I confined my statements to yaoi. If the argument is expanded from objectifying people in yaoi to objectifying people in porn, to film, to all media...by that point we've already strayed to far from my original intent. In example, this is similar to the debate on LGBT rights, and how some may argue if the same sex are allowed to marry, then marriage between man and animal would be legalized next. It's a slippery slope and a childish way to argue.

I agree that 'artistic value' is subjective, but I do not wish to go into that debate either, so let's agree that any series that has won or been nominated for any of the established 'manga awards' has literary or artistic value. No yaoi, hentai, loli series has ever won or been nominated. Most yaoi writers do not create a series with themes other than 'violent sex bordering on rape' in mind, and churn out series like a factory production line. There may be exceptions, but it is safe to say that the majority of these genres are not made to be more than 'porn' for readers.

I never once claimed anything was objective 'right' or 'wrong', I am only arguing for my subjective morals. Let me specify 'human' for you, they can be stupid, or cruel, or even superheroes with psychic powers, as long as they seem like real people, think like real people, face struggles like real people; fleshed out, well written and created by an author for the purpose of conveying themes. To continue with your porn example, not 'characters' created to act out a short skit that leads to nothing except sex. Sexualization, fetishishs, and illegal activities are all fine and even welcome in such stories as long as they serve a purpose in conveying the theme of the story and are not glorified activities with no value or purpose other than sexual arousal in itself. We can look to Clockwork Orange, which has all three, as a positive example. Yaoi, hentai, etc in this case is no different from porn. and from your 'straw men' statements it seems you agree that porn and sexualization and fetishes are not positive.

Since you hypocritically require me to source, here BL in the West, please feel free to educate yourself with this research paper.
I can also highlight the points from the article that support my argument if you wish, but I've wasted enough time here already. I will however clear up some 'vague' points from the previous round.

I don't feel comfortable expressing dislike for yaoi because I do support gay rights and don't want others to mistakenly claim I am homophobic. If I feared other's opinions I would be vocally and strongly against yaoi because that is what my peers expect of me.

From your defense of yaoi fangirls as non-lgbt enthusiats, you are also defending the fetishization of homosexuality by people who, in life, do not support rights for the very people they sexualize.

I am not arguing on the pretense that my position is the side which is 'politically correct', believing my argument is /true/ does not necessary mean believing it is 'absolute correct'. What is 'right' and 'wrong' in itself is debatable, but what is important in a debate is the choice of a side regardless of whether it is considered 'right' or 'wrong'. The purpose of a debate, typically, is the sway the opinion of a neutral jury in towards one side, the side which then becomes, for the time being, 'correct'. It seems the person who is focused on what is 'correct' at the moment is only you.

You seem to assume that your argument is 'right' simply because you are taking the middle ground, and I would like to inform you that the middle position between two extremes is not always correct. Your arguments are merely opinions as well, please do not imply that your opinions are any more 'right' than my own. In fact, no conclusion can be drawn from this debate as there is no set judge or jury to reach a verdict. In hindsight, I'm no longer interested in debating with a kid who thinks it is proper conduct to instigate a debate by insulting the opponent's argument as 'stupid and prejudiced'. Attacking an argument outright with the belief that you are 'correct' and assuming the counterargument has no basis or even considering the other argument less true only because proof has /yet/ to be given (referred to as 'argument to logic') is what is really 'stupid and prejudiced'.