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Stating an Unspoken Rule - No "Claiming" Projects
In the practice of fair scanlations all around, we (MangaUpdates) do not endorse, permit, allow, etc any sort of "claiming" series as projects from any individuals or scanlation groups.
This means please don't put a message "Future project of ____ group" on a series info page or a download message on a release to the effect of "We of ____ group plan to do _____ series" or anything similar to that effect.
This has always been our policy, and we have previously warned offending individuals. Please comply with our wishes.
Offenders will be warned and then punished on second offense
This means please don't put a message "Future project of ____ group" on a series info page or a download message on a release to the effect of "We of ____ group plan to do _____ series" or anything similar to that effect.
This has always been our policy, and we have previously warned offending individuals. Please comply with our wishes.
Offenders will be warned and then punished on second offense
Comments (limited to first 100 replies)
» fenrisulfr15 on October 13th, 2008, 3:13am
The red letters are Very eye catching 
» SilentNN on October 13th, 2008, 3:57am
Now if only the letters spelled out "on" instead of "one."
» lambchopsil on October 13th, 2008, 10:13am
Hey, I typed this up past midnight...
» SilentNN on October 13th, 2008, 3:45pm
It's ok. We all make mistakes. I was just pointing it out so you could fix it. 
» shaggievara on October 13th, 2008, 4:36am
Haha, people are getting possessive.
» MoJo on October 13th, 2008, 6:15am
That makes perfect sense.
#1 The series belongs to the mangaka and the publishers NOT anyone else, any "claiming" is just plain wrong, and against licensing laws.
#2 Why should a person have to wait six months to see a fan made scanlation because someone "claimed" it yet has other projects to tend to first. Especially when this prevents someone else doing the project in the mean time.
#1 The series belongs to the mangaka and the publishers NOT anyone else, any "claiming" is just plain wrong, and against licensing laws.
#2 Why should a person have to wait six months to see a fan made scanlation because someone "claimed" it yet has other projects to tend to first. Especially when this prevents someone else doing the project in the mean time.
» hitonari on October 14th, 2008, 2:44pm
I hate groups who hog a project for months and months and never release anything, yet they tell other groups they can't scanlate it. What are scanlations for, if not the fans, and it's unfair to the fans when we can't read something because of this "claiming" crap.
» naikan on October 17th, 2008, 9:07pm
I absolutely agree with this, and it's even worse when the group hogs the projects, doesn't work on them, and add even more projects to their list.
» reddwarfer on October 18th, 2008, 1:49am
Most groups are working on things, actually. People like to sit around and bitch and moan about speed and whatnot...but I don't seem them editing or translating or scanning or any of the very expensive, very time consuming costs of scanlation. I don't see them offering to actually debind/destroy their copies of something so other people can enjoy it. Basically, people want something for nothing and a majority of the people enjoying scanlation have never actually done anything for it. Someone spends the time to do it...someone spends their money on the projects.
» naikan on October 18th, 2008, 2:12pm
I'm a scanlator, and I'm talking about groups that do put claim to projects that they fully know they cannot start on for at least another half a year. Not all groups do this, of course, but these groups do exist, and I've unfortunately had the displeasure of working for (and quitting) a few of them.
» eni on October 13th, 2008, 7:01am
Lamb, while I basically agree with you on "claiming" as in "It's mine! Mine! MINE!" is wrong, I don't see any harm in announcing that a group "plans" to do a project as in your examples.
It actually prevents that two groups put effort into a series at the same time unnecessary. When I see that a (reliable) group is planning to do this (and e.g. just waiting on the ordered volumes), than I won't bother with this project from the start. Saves resources such as money and time.
It actually prevents that two groups put effort into a series at the same time unnecessary. When I see that a (reliable) group is planning to do this (and e.g. just waiting on the ordered volumes), than I won't bother with this project from the start. Saves resources such as money and time.
» evaric on October 13th, 2008, 8:56am
I agree, SC. Though I can see what prompted the rule in the first place, it makes no sense to prevent groups from announcing their intent to start or continue a project. If necessary they can be restricted from making additional comments other than than to note they intend to do a series and in what timeframe, but that would be useful information for readers as well as scanlators.
» ghostcheese on October 14th, 2008, 2:11pm
If you know of another place where all scanlation groups gather in one place and talk/post messages such as on this site, then tell me, because I do not. You can't go checking every single group site's future projects section individually. There are hundreds of groups around.
» faye on October 13th, 2008, 10:35am
Groups need to discuss that among themselves. We're no kindergarten playground for future-list-wars.
» ghostcheese on October 14th, 2008, 2:14pm
Bleh, replied to the wrong one. Darn my damaged optic nerves. Move the previous post up there down here.
» Manick on October 14th, 2008, 4:22pm
If you really truly want to do a project, it shouldn't matter if anyone else is doing it. If your desires are so shallow that you'd stop simply because your version isn't being read by as many people, then why do it in the first place? Here's a hint, you can control the quality. If you're satisfied with the other groups quality, then save yourself some time and work on something else ...
» SinsI on October 17th, 2008, 5:52am
What a strange and perverted desire - "to do a project".
Normal people just want to see something they like translated, to share their joy with others...
Normal people just want to see something they like translated, to share their joy with others...
» SnoopyCool on October 13th, 2008, 7:26am
Obviously, future projects will always be one of those things that some groups put up in hopes of making sure that no one else does them, but they have no place in a public information site. If anything, this should be the last place that you'll find any propaganda for this or that project or group. Putting up claims or the like is basically abusing the system that's in place here.
Not to say that claiming is wrong... it's something that I personally don't really do, but it's pretty obvious that it would cut down on multiple groups starting the same project at the same time. At least in an ideal world.
Not to say that claiming is wrong... it's something that I personally don't really do, but it's pretty obvious that it would cut down on multiple groups starting the same project at the same time. At least in an ideal world.
» Name-Undecided on October 13th, 2008, 7:59am
You can put any number of Future Projects on your group's page if you want, just leave it off Mangaupdates, is my opinion. If you want to "claim" it on MU that badly, go ahead and release something - and not just chapter "1a" either.
» Kaioh on October 13th, 2008, 8:52am
For clarification, we have no problem with people announcing future projects.
When people start telling others not to do them because they are doing them or will do them, thats when we get annoyed.
A few times recently we've had issues with groups claiming projects as their own. It's an unfair practice to everyone. When multiple groups do a project, speed and quality generally increase, which benefits everyone.
This was mostly pointed out because recently we've noticed some larger groups trying to strong arm smaller groups out of projects.
So, if Group X doesn't want Group Y to do Project Z, maybe Group X should actually do Project Z in a timely manner, that way Group Y won't be bothered to consider Project Z as a potential project. As an example.
When people start telling others not to do them because they are doing them or will do them, thats when we get annoyed.
A few times recently we've had issues with groups claiming projects as their own. It's an unfair practice to everyone. When multiple groups do a project, speed and quality generally increase, which benefits everyone.
This was mostly pointed out because recently we've noticed some larger groups trying to strong arm smaller groups out of projects.
So, if Group X doesn't want Group Y to do Project Z, maybe Group X should actually do Project Z in a timely manner, that way Group Y won't be bothered to consider Project Z as a potential project. As an example.
» ZL11 on October 13th, 2008, 9:27pm
When "speed" goes up, "quality" does not generally "go up." It's usually a free-for-all of LQ-MQ scans, bad typesetting, and a gazillion individuals who have decided to do it just cuz they think they can.
I don't see a problem with "claiming" since it prevent a duplication in effort. At least, that's how the YAOI groups tend to handle it.
Then again, YAOI groups are contending with a small percentage of fangirls and not the voracious masses that are the JUMP readers. (Honestly, that demographic is frightening in its inability to wait.)
Sometimes it's not even the group's fault, and it may just be IRL issues, technical difficulties, or just lack of reliable staff. Still, I don't think "claiming" means that groups can't inquire about taking over should the original group seem to be floundering.
But - that's just me. It's one thing to just DO it because you want to, and another to be polite and civilized about the situation. (Then again, this is not a polite business, and that crap up on top about licensing is ridiculous, seeing as this is all illegal any way. Stop reading it if you want to stay lily white, but don't fling that around. Sheesh...)
I don't see a problem with "claiming" since it prevent a duplication in effort. At least, that's how the YAOI groups tend to handle it.
Then again, YAOI groups are contending with a small percentage of fangirls and not the voracious masses that are the JUMP readers. (Honestly, that demographic is frightening in its inability to wait.)
Sometimes it's not even the group's fault, and it may just be IRL issues, technical difficulties, or just lack of reliable staff. Still, I don't think "claiming" means that groups can't inquire about taking over should the original group seem to be floundering.
But - that's just me. It's one thing to just DO it because you want to, and another to be polite and civilized about the situation. (Then again, this is not a polite business, and that crap up on top about licensing is ridiculous, seeing as this is all illegal any way. Stop reading it if you want to stay lily white, but don't fling that around. Sheesh...)
» Kaioh on October 14th, 2008, 11:49am
Most series where the quality of release doesn't go up are the weekly shounen ones (Naruto, Bleach, etc etc).
If you've seen one or two groups do the same series, you'll notice that each are striving for better speed and quality with each release.
Of course, when I originally stated this, this is how I meant it. It seems you took it differently than how I intended.
Regardless, if a group does a project, they have no right to claim it as their own. Anyone else can do it if they see fit to do so, for whatever reason they believe.
If you've seen one or two groups do the same series, you'll notice that each are striving for better speed and quality with each release.
Of course, when I originally stated this, this is how I meant it. It seems you took it differently than how I intended.
Regardless, if a group does a project, they have no right to claim it as their own. Anyone else can do it if they see fit to do so, for whatever reason they believe.
» ZL11 on October 14th, 2008, 2:32pm
Hmm... that's why I mentioned JUMP chapters specifically. I've seen several groups do duplicated scans, but most of the time it's a HQ scanlation group vs. LQ/MQ scan groups. People are generally satisfied enough with LQ/MQ as long as they get their fix.
As for other groups doing non-JUMP scans, it seems to me that it's almost always "whoever gets it out first, wins." Didn't Mangaupdates even have a Poll like that? Wasn't that the outcome?
I'm saying that competition doesn't always equate to better scanlations. The general leech doesn't seem to appreciate the effort for better work, and only a percentage value quality and readability, if I can again reference that MU poll.
As for the claiming, you're right in that it doesn't matter... except there are a million projects out there and why duplicate work? If the purpose of scanlation is to expose as many manga as possible to the world, then duplication of work seems contrary to that. It occurs for two reasons: 1) dissatisfaction. 2) misunderstanding that someone has already put in effort.
Either way, as I said before, the YAOI community frowns heavily on duplication of projects, and I suspect it's mostly the same for shoujo (I know there's a lot of duplication with some projects, esp. CLAMP). It's mostly shounen groups that think that it's okay to duplicate effort, and it then becomes a competition. (I actually have no interest in that. I'd rather drop the project.)
I'm not even saying I'm 100% right. This is just observation on my part and my minimal participation in scanlation group interaction.
So, to some degree, I actually agree with you.
As for other groups doing non-JUMP scans, it seems to me that it's almost always "whoever gets it out first, wins." Didn't Mangaupdates even have a Poll like that? Wasn't that the outcome?
I'm saying that competition doesn't always equate to better scanlations. The general leech doesn't seem to appreciate the effort for better work, and only a percentage value quality and readability, if I can again reference that MU poll.
As for the claiming, you're right in that it doesn't matter... except there are a million projects out there and why duplicate work? If the purpose of scanlation is to expose as many manga as possible to the world, then duplication of work seems contrary to that. It occurs for two reasons: 1) dissatisfaction. 2) misunderstanding that someone has already put in effort.
Either way, as I said before, the YAOI community frowns heavily on duplication of projects, and I suspect it's mostly the same for shoujo (I know there's a lot of duplication with some projects, esp. CLAMP). It's mostly shounen groups that think that it's okay to duplicate effort, and it then becomes a competition. (I actually have no interest in that. I'd rather drop the project.)
I'm not even saying I'm 100% right. This is just observation on my part and my minimal participation in scanlation group interaction.
So, to some degree, I actually agree with you.
» Kaioh on October 15th, 2008, 7:02am
Personally, I really don't care how the Yaoi community treats this subject.
As a generalization, people are free to do what they please, and scanlate whatever they want to do.
You wanna think less of someone for doing it?
Fine. I'll think less of you for being such a shallow person.
Now we're all settled up, right?
P.S. You didn't mention Jump character specifically. You mentioned Jump, itself. Mention Jump character specifically would be saying something like "Naruo, Bleach" etc etc. You made a specific generalization. There's a large difference. That aside, you also mentioned Yaoi, which, again, takes away from the specifics of your post.
As a generalization, people are free to do what they please, and scanlate whatever they want to do.
You wanna think less of someone for doing it?
Fine. I'll think less of you for being such a shallow person.
Now we're all settled up, right?
P.S. You didn't mention Jump character specifically. You mentioned Jump, itself. Mention Jump character specifically would be saying something like "Naruo, Bleach" etc etc. You made a specific generalization. There's a large difference. That aside, you also mentioned Yaoi, which, again, takes away from the specifics of your post.
» ZL11 on October 14th, 2008, 3:21pm
BTW - more on topic, claiming it on here would be easier for other scanlation groups, but this isn't the place to do it since it makes it troublesome for MU. So I agree with the topic. Banzai!
» Dr. Love on October 15th, 2008, 3:26am
What's the attack on Shounen Jump series? Obviously someone is biased.
They're both bad. Shounen Jump readers for their greediness, and Shoujo/Yaoi scanlators for their possesiveness of series.
/generalization.
They're both bad. Shounen Jump readers for their greediness, and Shoujo/Yaoi scanlators for their possesiveness of series.
/generalization.
» ZL11 on October 17th, 2008, 10:04pm
Biased? I've worked both sides of the fence, with both OP and KHR. If I had said that without any experience, I'd say my "general" bias would be based on watching the dog fights in JUMP projects just on the release page.
And, although there is claiming in the YAOI comm, there are those who are greedy and attempt to keep projects to themselves, strong arming other, smaller groups, I grant this. I don't actually support that either, but it's when everyone gets impolite and starts b*tching at each other that it all gets nasty.
In either case, communication should be polite and open, otherwise fights break out.
/experienced opinion
And, although there is claiming in the YAOI comm, there are those who are greedy and attempt to keep projects to themselves, strong arming other, smaller groups, I grant this. I don't actually support that either, but it's when everyone gets impolite and starts b*tching at each other that it all gets nasty.
In either case, communication should be polite and open, otherwise fights break out.
/experienced opinion
» Dr. Love on October 18th, 2008, 3:48am
Hmm, that might be so...
Though I find it weird you say differently in another thread.
http://www.mangaupdates.com/showtopic.php?tid=4913& hl=groups
Not only that, but the general consensus was that Shoujo groups are more possesive.
Though I find it weird you say differently in another thread.
http://www.mangaupdates.com/showtopic.php?tid=4913& hl=groups
Not only that, but the general consensus was that Shoujo groups are more possesive.
» ZL11 on October 18th, 2008, 8:43am
Well, I think Shoujo groups talk to each other more (even to complain) and YAOI groups get nasty... I say that about YAOI groups because they DO tend to strong arm. I've been strong armed a couple of times, but frankly, in most cases, I don't care enough about a project to fight.
The JUMP thing didn't really hit me until KHR, and then it got nasty as hell. I was frankly shocked by it, both the scanlators and the fans. There was little discussion, just mostly complaining and undercutting.
I had posted that before that really set in with KHR. I had never had that issue before that with a shounen title.
That's it.
I've seen the squabbling over shoujo as well, and frankly none of it ends positively. I understand "claiming" is to help others know what's coming up, and to help other groups think of projects that they'd like to do OTHER than that one, but not as a means of fighting. That's just silly when there are SO many projects out there.
Then again, I can't be bothered to fight most of the time, but that's me.
The JUMP thing didn't really hit me until KHR, and then it got nasty as hell. I was frankly shocked by it, both the scanlators and the fans. There was little discussion, just mostly complaining and undercutting.
I had posted that before that really set in with KHR. I had never had that issue before that with a shounen title.
That's it.
I've seen the squabbling over shoujo as well, and frankly none of it ends positively. I understand "claiming" is to help others know what's coming up, and to help other groups think of projects that they'd like to do OTHER than that one, but not as a means of fighting. That's just silly when there are SO many projects out there.
Then again, I can't be bothered to fight most of the time, but that's me.
» naikan on October 17th, 2008, 9:05pm
Actually with the YAOI community, speed and quality can go up at the same time. This is because there is usually less competition in the YAOI community and some groups will claim a project for months to years and then still put it out in shitty quality. If they have competition, they do it faster and actually worry enough about quality to do a decent job.
And really, even in the YAOI community, I know of a group just this month who tried to strong-arm out another group from taking one of their 50+ projects being worked on by their staff of 5. >_> Groups claiming more than what they can possibly release in 1 year is common practice for YAOI groups.
And really, even in the YAOI community, I know of a group just this month who tried to strong-arm out another group from taking one of their 50+ projects being worked on by their staff of 5. >_> Groups claiming more than what they can possibly release in 1 year is common practice for YAOI groups.
» MoJo on October 16th, 2008, 8:16am
Oh! That's an excellent point! A little healthy competition is a good thing in my book. Saying you plan to do something is one thing, but demanding no other fans do the same project is an other thing entirely.
» m64 on October 13th, 2008, 10:29am
I CLAIM NARUTO AND BLEACH!!!
if only this would prevent everyone from working on them and move onto better projects ><
if only this would prevent everyone from working on them and move onto better projects ><
» roniz on October 13th, 2008, 2:22pm
lulz
» Lu-chan on October 16th, 2008, 12:26pm
Damn I sooo agree! It's driving me kinda crazy to see so many time and effort "wasted" on those two series when there's a million other great series awaiting to be scanlated.
Of course anyone can do as they wish but let's not forget that scanlations, and it's especially true for the Jump mangas, should only give us a peek of a series before it's properly published. I mean, isn't it contradictory to expect that we buy the published books and hereby "support the mangaka" if the scans are super HQ with awesome quality?
Of course anyone can do as they wish but let's not forget that scanlations, and it's especially true for the Jump mangas, should only give us a peek of a series before it's properly published. I mean, isn't it contradictory to expect that we buy the published books and hereby "support the mangaka" if the scans are super HQ with awesome quality?
» ippy on October 16th, 2008, 8:23pm
First of all, you're redundant. "if the scans are super HQ with awesome quality" HQ=high quality so it should already have awesome quality since that's the definition for high in this instance
Second, why should scanlators lower their quality just because people don't have enough of a conscious to buy the real books? You SHOULD buy the original books because you can compare the original Japanese to the English. Or you could buy the English versions to see if the copyright translators translated things the same as the scanlators. Also, you should buy the books to see if the scanlator is translating it or telling you a whole different story. It would be interesting if there was a series with a scanlator that wasn't even translating the story but making up their own, like the april fools' chapters.
Second, why should scanlators lower their quality just because people don't have enough of a conscious to buy the real books? You SHOULD buy the original books because you can compare the original Japanese to the English. Or you could buy the English versions to see if the copyright translators translated things the same as the scanlators. Also, you should buy the books to see if the scanlator is translating it or telling you a whole different story. It would be interesting if there was a series with a scanlator that wasn't even translating the story but making up their own, like the april fools' chapters.
» Akukame on October 14th, 2008, 12:03am
If you're announcing it and have warned individuals in the past, doesn't that make it not an unspoken rule, and an actual voiced rule? I mean, you've obviously spoken it...
But more on subject, I completely agree with leaving the claiming out of this website. If anything it would need its own website. Much like how andrewlb's who subs what wiki acts in the fansub world ( http://fansubwiki.com/Who_Subs_What:_FALL_2008 )
But more on subject, I completely agree with leaving the claiming out of this website. If anything it would need its own website. Much like how andrewlb's who subs what wiki acts in the fansub world ( http://fansubwiki.com/Who_Subs_What:_FALL_2008 )
» Kalendel on October 14th, 2008, 11:43am
I actually have space (php/mysql capable) and domain name to set up a site like this ~ a future project database and general recruitment site. What I don't have is the coding skills to make it really nice. If there are any coders out there who are interested in helping out in such an endeavor, toss me an email at kalendel@gmail.com and I'll go into my vision for the site!
(Yes, yes, a bunch of people hate the idea, I'm talking on behalf of those who think such a site would be super-useful.)
(Yes, yes, a bunch of people hate the idea, I'm talking on behalf of those who think such a site would be super-useful.)
» SnoopyCool on October 14th, 2008, 9:15pm
I've always wanted there to be a site specifically for things like networking between groups, claiming projects, asking for translation help, finding groups that want to work on joints, etc. The problem is that I've never gotten the feeling that anyone else would want it (aside from a handful of fans who think it's a great idea but would never actually use it because... well, they're just fans).
» Kalendel on October 15th, 2008, 5:25am
Actually... I think this may be because of who you're polling. I've noticed (in general), that shounen groups are usually against listing future projects, and shoujo/shounen-ai groups are for it. As you probably have more shounen ties, that might be why you haven't gotten favorable replies.
About a month ago I asked a bunch of friends in scanlation (mostly shoujo group owners) and had some staffers spread the word about a future project/group networking site. Everyone who wasn't just flatly against listing future projects was for a site like that. A friend of mine offered to help code, but once we brainstormed all the things it'd be nice to have, we realized it was beyond her knowledge. So... stalled for the moment ^^;
About a month ago I asked a bunch of friends in scanlation (mostly shoujo group owners) and had some staffers spread the word about a future project/group networking site. Everyone who wasn't just flatly against listing future projects was for a site like that. A friend of mine offered to help code, but once we brainstormed all the things it'd be nice to have, we realized it was beyond her knowledge. So... stalled for the moment ^^;
» vvhime on October 15th, 2008, 10:14pm
I agree that we should have the site that will list the upcoming n future project of scanlation group. And I once thought to make that site. At first I thought to make just a simple table of what group doing what projects. But looks like it's not as simple as that.
Kal, for starter, I guess having a simple one will be worth trying.
Kal, for starter, I guess having a simple one will be worth trying.
» naikan on October 17th, 2008, 9:11pm
This is a very good idea, and best of luck implementing it!
Will there be a rule on maximum number of claims and/or maximum claim time without a release before it's up for grabs again? Because the idea sounds great, but also has the potential to be abused.
Will there be a rule on maximum number of claims and/or maximum claim time without a release before it's up for grabs again? Because the idea sounds great, but also has the potential to be abused.
» lame2846 on October 15th, 2008, 4:39pm
what is the punishment?
» ratspootin on October 16th, 2008, 4:23am
Death.
» Kaioh on October 16th, 2008, 5:39am
No.
Our punishment will not be swift or quick. It will be long and drawn out to the point that far in the future when you're looking back at all the horrible things that have happend in your life, you will wonder if they were pure happenstance, or the underhanded workings of the MU Admins.
Our punishment will not be swift or quick. It will be long and drawn out to the point that far in the future when you're looking back at all the horrible things that have happend in your life, you will wonder if they were pure happenstance, or the underhanded workings of the MU Admins.
» SnoopyCool on October 16th, 2008, 6:24am
Apparently they're going to accuse you of indecency with a child.
» MissyMichelle on October 18th, 2008, 10:25pm
if you ppl think its months of no release. how bout looking at past cycles. as early as june some groups starts saving for xmas release >.>
