I think I read something awhile ago somewhere where somebody mentioned something like this in passing.
They said that terms like "seme" and "uke" demeaned the actual love and relationship. However, another said it didn't really matter since it was only fictional and slang. Overall, I think it is because there is a lack of terms available for yaoi fans.

Just wondering what your opinions are?

Please remember to keep the bashing and flaming to the utmost minimum.


(Also, would anyone happen know if these terms are used for yuri manga as well?)

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They are? O_O

I thought seme = top, uke = bottom? I mean they're just positions, no? Or like femme and butch in gay relationships. Maybe they mean something else in Japanese? No idea.

It is sort of leading to ways of thought
that think there's always roles in gay
relationships. They can both be men.
Even GAR men, Shooting bears and
fishing, not just a molesting basketball
player and a loli trap.

Never heard those were considered derogatory.
And I don't think so myself.

And to answer your other question, in yuri:
Top- Butch.
Bottom- Femme.
(read that in honey & honey :3 a while back)

________________
Hrodulf and Bjornolfr, you will not be forgotten.

And if the world were black and white,
you would be my rainbow in shades of grey.

Click 'n Play!

If I had a fantasy self, it'd be a tentacle monster.

I don't like them, and I don't use those terms much at all. Hard to explain why.

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Wait, those aren't just manga terms?...
I don't use them anywhere except on this site, or other manga related ones.
Like anybody would understand.

________________
Hrodulf and Bjornolfr, you will not be forgotten.

And if the world were black and white,
you would be my rainbow in shades of grey.

Click 'n Play!

If I had a fantasy self, it'd be a tentacle monster.

I dislike those terms because it highlights the worst side of yaoi readership; the type that just wants the homo version of shoujo.

I don't think they are derogatory. Those terms are only used in yaoi manga NOT anywhere outside those manga (and perhaps BL novels written by Japanese?). And I haven't seen any user having derogatory connotation when using them.

There are those terms because in many yaoi manga traditionally the top guy always pursues the more feminine looking bottom guy. I don't like this cliche but it still exists. I don't think there are similar terms in yuri though.

I agree with ZeroNine that some of the authors made yaoi this way because they can attract readers who actually want shoujo with guys playing the roles of a man and a woman (again this is still cliched in shoujo and I don't think relationships portrayed in shoujo/smut can represent RL). Apparently this is not the need of yuri readers, right?

I personally think those readers are weird but it sells to them. :shrug: But I don't think we have to make a big fuss about those terms though.

Last edited by base_coat at 11:43 am, Jan 31 2009

No, and I'm not into yaoi.
They're just terms to describe characters in the manga, just like how people use "tsundere" and the like.
So no...I don't think they're derogatory. It's not like people use them to call people that in real life.

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♪MONSTARR~ will eat all your cookies and steal your bishies~♪ Φ_Φ

no i don't think so since i only use them while talking about yaoi.

and it is not like i have a chance to not use them. though i sometimes use top/bottom, too.

They're just cliches and stereotypes and can be extremely annoying since it's like "someone with this kinda name/character must be completely submissive or aggressive or has to behave as such and such". However, it's far more interesting to find BL that doesn't really adhere to these "stereotypes".

I agree with you yuri, since they are sterotypes used in MOST yaoi, not saying all of them are like this, but most of the ones I have read always have the uke as kinda wimpish and small...and the seme more agressive and bigger....also the dont switch, its like "oh well your the uke..so your gonna stay that way" kinda things in manga...but in RL gay couple usualy aren't like that....so the whole uke and seme thing is just making somewhat of a fictionally based stereotype.

Though in RL I have never actually heard anyone be refered to as uke or seme...just top or bottom. But eh...i see them not so much derogatory, but more fictionally based....

oh this is about Yaoi... no wonder I didn't know what the heck this was about...


*Leaves the thread

Girls have fun with your Yaoi

and guys -_-

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They are not fictional terms. Uke derives from "ukeru" which means "to receive" it's similar to "catcher" slang term in english. Seme derives from "semeru" which means "to attack" and is similar to the "pitcher" term in english. For lesbians there is "neko" ie femme and "tachi" ie butch. You may also hear gay males calling themselves "neko". These terms are as derogatory as one makes them. All of them are slang, they exist in all languages, it kind of make sense if you think that gay people have to voice their preferences somehow. So, while people don't go around calling constantly themselves such terms and there are some who don't use these terms at all, they exist outside of fiction. They were not created to accommodate the yaoi genre, rather the opposite, it is the yaoi genre that used and, to some extend, abused them.

The only instance i find those terms slightly annoying is when some yaoi fangirl calls herself "seme" or "uke" or say something similar to "I want to marry a seme"

I think those terms are derived from roles in martial arts practicing or something.

I don't think gay people would call themselves seme and uke. They usually use top and bottom. And bottoms being more feminine and submissive and roles never changing indeed only exist in yaoi/ BL fiction. That's why seme and uke are still not equivalents to RL tops and bottoms. They are unique terms for fictional characters.