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Post #448616 - Reply to (#448611) by ShadowSakura
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12:29 pm, Feb 21 2011
Posts: 62


Quote from ShadowSakura
oh, come on. humanity needs much more than it could be produced if the cows would have cow paddocks. i think it would be better if some of the meat would go to the persons in the third world, but therefore a huge part of the persons in wealthier countries need to become vegetarians or everyone would have to eat less meat. good luck with that


Humanity needs FOOD not meat. Meat is pretty much luxury, you need way more corn/animalfood to produce a bit of meat. Trust me the sarving ppl in third world countries are happier to get a bowl of rice/corn than one small bite of meat.

Post #448618 - Reply to (#448609) by Serian
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Timeless
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12:32 pm, Feb 21 2011
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Quote from Serian
I think its a matter of education how much you really care and what you do at the end. Because the morals of every human on earth are different there will never be a consent to this matter. Mistreating animals is wrong. Factory Farming is mistreatment for animals AND for humans, there are so many chemicals and drugs used to keep the animals alive and make them grow faster and bigger that no one can tell me that we aren't affected at all. Thats only my two cents for ppl that think that "only animals" are effected and eg. world hunger or child labor should be a more important topic because it involves humans. If I think that my baby niece gets to eat such contaminated meat, it makes my simply sick.

However I for my part to care about the animals. Like QuasarX I also didn't eat meat for a while. Now I eat meat again but much less than in the past. Factory Farming wouldn't be necessary if we wouldn't be so wasteful with the resources we have.


Edit: I'm on an iPod and too lazy to scroll down. You canprodyce more meat in a factory farm than you can produce corn on the same amount of area. Now, corn is just as genetically modified as meat. Hell it's in everything we eat. High fructose corn syrup is just as unhealthy as all this meat everybody's eating, and sorry no, meat is not a luxury, man does not live on bread alone. We don't just eat meat for fun, it's part of a consistent and regulated diet. Not everyone had to be vegetarian and eat healthily because cows are suffering.

Edit2: @the-burden You're not the poorest person in the world. In fact, you're probably in the top 20%. So you can't argue about being poor.
Here's my 2 cents. You come up with a way (and please don't say that it isn't your job,) to feed over 6 billion people, keep things affordable, and keep animals happy, while turning a profit. Then we can bring morals into this. You realise that half the world suffers from malnutrition and yet you want to make it so that there is less meat to go around? Bad distribution accounts for a lot of it, but ad it stands the world hardly produces enough to feed the masses.

Without Factory Farming, food production would drop heavily. No more feeding corn to cows means that conglomerates will no longer have cheap food alternatives and will be forced to raise prices. Almost all arable land in the US is being used, if you can conjure an entire country of pasture then be my guest. Cost of maintenance skyrockets, food production is lowered so you can make sure some poor dumb cow has a good life.

Aside from the fact that the average consumer really does not give a damn, what do you think food conglomerates produce food for us for? Because they're nice people? They do it for money, just like any other business. You could say that that is their primary objective and that keeping the food nice and good is merely a way to satisfy customers. Even if we were aware of it and did think of it, it's the hardest thing in the world to toss over conglomerates that control all the food in Th USA.

Sure, it's possible to get them to enforce better health conditions, butbto revamp the whole Factory Farm idea is plain stupid. Don't throw out general terms in an attempt to garner sympathy because without this Factory Farm stuff we wouldn't even have a surplus in first world countries, let alone being able to line the shelves of others.

Last edited by Dafat-MKII at 12:39 pm, Feb 21 2011

Post #448619 - Reply to (#448618) by Dafat-MKII
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12:45 pm, Feb 21 2011
Posts: 284


Quote from Dafat-MKII
Quote from Serian
I think its a matter of education how much you really care and what you do at the end. Because the morals of every human on earth are different there will never be a consent to this matter. Mistreating animals is wrong. Factory Farming is mistreatment for animals AND for humans, there are so many chemicals and drugs used to keep the animals alive and make them grow faster and bigger that no one can tell me that we aren't affected at all. Thats only my two cents for ppl that think that "only animals" are effected and eg. world hunger or child labor should be a more important topic because it involves humans. If I think that my baby niece gets to eat such contaminated meat, it makes my simply sick.

However I for my part to care about the animals. Like QuasarX I also didn't eat meat for a while. Now I eat meat again but much less than in the past. Factory Farming wouldn't be necessary if we wouldn't be so wasteful with the resources we have.


Edit: I'm on an iPod and too lazy to scroll down. You canprodyce more meat in a factory farm than you can produce corn on the same amount of area. Now, corn is just as genetically modified as meat. Hell it's in everything we eat. High fructose corn syrup is just as unhealthy as all this meat everybody's eating, and sorry no, meat is not a luxury, man does not live on bread alone. We don't just eat meat for fun, it's part of a consistent and regulated diet. Not everyone had to be vegetarian and eat healthily because cows are suffering.
Here's my 2 cents. You come up with a way (and please don't say that it isn't your job,) to feed over 6 billion people, keep things affordable, and keep animals happy, while turning a profit. Then we can bring morals into this. You realise that half the world suffers from malnutrition and yet you want to make it so that there is less meat to go around? Bad distribution accounts for a lot of it, but ad it stands the world hardly produces enough to feed the masses.

Without Factory Farming, food production would drop heavily. No more feeding corn to cows means that conglomerates will no longer have cheap food alternatives and will be forced to raise prices. Almost all arable land in the US is being used, if you can conjure an entire country of pasture then be my guest. Cost of maintenance skyrockets, food production is lowered so you can make sure some poor dumb cow has a good life.

Aside from the fact that the average consumer really does not give a damn, what do you think food conglomerates produce food for us for? Because they're nice people? They do it for money, just like any other business. You could say that that is their primary objective and that keeping the food nice and good is merely a way to satisfy customers. Even if we were aware of it and did think of it, it's the hardest thing in the world to toss over conglomerates that control all the food in Th USA.

Sure, it's possible to get them to enforce better health conditions, butbto revamp the whole Factory Farm idea is plain stupid. Don't throw out general terms in an attempt to garner sympathy because without this Factory Farm stuff we wouldn't even have a surplus in first world countries, let alone being able to line the shelves of others.


Thats the problem it is a buissness and btw they actually produce more meat than people buy and eat. Think about How much food goes past it's sell by date? think about how much food gets tost in the trash. The point is that we do not need to buy as much meat as we do and we can happily live on fruit and veg for a couple of days and every so often have something with meat.

Also I want to ask what is the price of killing something humainly? AND they actually over feed the chickens in factory farms to make them fatter so you actually spend a little less on food for free range. Also factory farmed animals do not get treated for illnesses unlike free range. I think it is a big deal that we know waht is going on what we are eating.

Yes the cost of raising free range animals are higher but to be honest I would rather eat well looked after meat than the horrible meat that factory farms produce.

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Timeless
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12:50 pm, Feb 21 2011
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Then here's an idea. Go eat your free range meat in the belief that the chicken you're eating had a better life.

If you're going to blame wastage of food, blame the consumer, and hey, if you can bring food to everyone without being a business, you must be Jesus with 4 loaves of bread.

To illustrate:
How many cows can you fit in 1 acre of factory as opposed to one acre of pasture, and sorry to break it to you, but your humanely killed free range chickens are still dead.

Once again, find a way to
1. Make Everyone Happy
2. Make Animals Happy
3. Feed The Planet
4. Turn a profit

then talk about morals of chicken-fattening. You can bring awareness all you like but don't force your beliefs down on other people who aren't Gods.

Post #448621
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12:50 pm, Feb 21 2011
Posts: 390


I don't because I don't eat meat.

About the pasture and factory
Lookign at world terms(not at the cows) pastures don't make sense, the space you use to create cows in a pasture you could plant and get much more food. With the exception of Brazil, every country in the world needs factory farming to feed their population be it because they have earth but are overpopulated(China, USA, India) or because they just don't have enough space.
It surely isn't beatiful, but it's the only way


About the food wasted, you never know how much people you need to feed or what will happen with the corn the next year, having more than necessary is normal

Post #448622
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12:51 pm, Feb 21 2011
Posts: 2050


Now I do.
I read Fast Food Nation last year.
But only sometimes I care. I still enjoy McDonald's and Chick-Fil-A. 8D

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Post #448623 - Reply to (#448620) by Dafat-MKII
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insomniac Kagehime
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12:53 pm, Feb 21 2011
Posts: 2707


Quote from Dafat-MKII
Then here's an idea. Go eat your free range meat in the belief that the chicken you're eating had a better life.

If you're going to blame wastage of food, blame the consumer, and hey, if you can bring food to everyone without being a business, you must be Jesus with 4 loaves of bread.

Once again, find a way to
1. Make Everyone Happy
2. Make Animals Happy
3. Feed The Planet
4. Turn a profit

then talk about morals of chicken-fattening. You can bring awareness all you like but don't force your beliefs down on other people who aren't Gods.

Clap, Clap for you. This statement is great. I completely agree

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Post #448624 - Reply to (#448620) by Dafat-MKII
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12:54 pm, Feb 21 2011
Posts: 390


Quote from Dafat-MKII
Then here's an idea. Go eat your free range meat in the belief that the chicken you're eating had a better life.

If you're going to blame wastage of food, blame the consumer, and hey, if you can bring food to everyone without being a business, you must be Jesus with 4 loaves of bread.

To illustrate:
How many cows can you fit in 1 acre of factory as opposed to one acre of pasture, and sorry to break it to you, but your humanely killed free range chickens are still dead.

Once again, find a way to
1. Make Everyone Happy
2. Make Animals Happy
3. Feed The Planet
4. Turn a profit

then talk about morals of chicken-fattening. You can bring awareness all you like but don't force your beliefs down on other people who aren't Gods.


Awesome

Post #448625 - Reply to (#448623) by ShadowSakura
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Timeless
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12:56 pm, Feb 21 2011
Posts: 527


Quote from ShadowSakura
Quote from Dafat-MKII
Then here's an idea. Go eat your free range meat in the belief that the chicken you're eating had a better life.

If you're going to blame wastage of food, blame the consumer, and hey, if you can bring food to everyone without being a business, you must be Jesus with 4 loaves of bread.

Once again, find a way to
1. Make Everyone Happy
2. Make Animals Happy
3. Feed The Planet
4. Turn a profit

then talk about morals of chicken-fattening. You can bring awareness all you like but don't force your beliefs down on other people who aren't Gods.

Clap, Clap for you. This statement is great. I completely agree


Thanks, I was partially inspired by your post, and this point has been argued before by people who don't completely understand what they ask everyone to do.

Post #448626 - Reply to (#448618) by Dafat-MKII
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12:58 pm, Feb 21 2011
Posts: 62


Quote from Dafat-MKII
Sure, it's possible to get them to enforce better health conditions, butbto revamp the whole Factory Farm idea is plain stupid. Don't throw out general terms in an attempt to garner sympathy because without this Factory Farm stuff we wouldn't even have a surplus in first world countries, let alone being able to line the shelves of others.


I never said that meat production is an easy task, I said that mistreating animals is wrong. And if you want to start with malnutrition I am sure that you know that there are other ways to cover this up than meat. The protein is needed not the meat. I eat meat as well, like most ppl on this world but I dont understand ppl that need to eat it in a wasteful manner. I dont eat it every day or even 3 times a day... I have no idea where you were raised but we do have farms around my town that arent Factory Farms that sell meat at an affordable price. All I want are better conditions for animals and you cant tell me that this wouldn't be possible because half of the world would starve to death if they need to pay 1 cent more for the meat. Anyway I dont want any sympathy, like I said if you dont do it for the animals, think of yourself, your family, your children that eat such meat.

Last edited by Serian at 1:03 pm, Feb 21 2011

Post #448627 - Reply to (#448620) by Dafat-MKII
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1:03 pm, Feb 21 2011
Posts: 284


Quote from Dafat-MKII
Then here's an idea. Go eat your free range meat in the belief that the chicken you're eating had a better life.

If you're going to blame wastage of food, blame the consumer, and hey, if you can bring food to everyone without being a business, you must be Jesus with 4 loaves of bread.

Once again, find a way to
1. Make Everyone Happy
2. Make Animals Happy
3. Feed The Planet
4. Turn a profit

then talk about morals of chicken-fattening. You can bring awareness all you like but don't force your beliefs down on other people who aren't Gods.


I am blaming the consumers and yes I am not duluded I know that some free range chicken although have a better life they end up in the same slaughter house as a factory farmed chicken. I think you are being a little arogaunt do you really think it is okay to mass produce animals make them grow faster than there natural growing rate and keep them in cages? No one need to be a god to know that it is just wrong to treat animals like crap. I am not being some sort of naturist don't hurt the trees dont hurt the animals. I am just saying morally this is what needs to happen.

I know buissness need to make profit but this is no way to go about it. Also factory farming is not the salution to feeding the world and neither will taking it away but my point is not feeding the world exactly. If we cared that much about feeding the world we would not pay footballers and other celebrities the amount of money we give them.

Cruelty to animals is wrong full stop.

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Post #448628 - Reply to (#448626) by Serian
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Timeless
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1:09 pm, Feb 21 2011
Posts: 527


[quote=Serian]
Quote from Dafat-MKII
Quote from Serian
Sure, it's possible to get them to enforce better health conditions, butbto revamp the whole Factory Farm idea is plain stupid. Don't throw out general terms in an attempt to garner sympathy because without this Factory Farm stuff we wouldn't even have a surplus in first world countries, let alone being able to line the shelves of others.


I never said that meat production is an easy task, I said that mistreating animals is wrong. And if you want to start with malnutrition I am sure that you know that there are other ways to cover this up than meat. The protein is needed not the meat. I eat meat as well, like most ppl on this world but I dont understand ppl that need to eat it in a wasteful manner. I dont eat it every day or even 3 times a day... I have no idea where you were raised but we do have farms around my town that arent Factory Farms that sell meat at an affordable price. All I want are better conditions for animals and you cant tell me that this wouldn't be possible because half of the world would starve to death if they need to pay 1 cent more for the meat. Anyway I dont want any sympathy, like I said if you dont do it for the animals, think of yourself, your family, your children that eat such meat.


Edit: Last thing. Great cruelty to animals is wrong and businesses are going about it wrong. Tell us something we din't know. Now tell me something I really don't know. Hoe on earth do we produce the same amount of food while making things better. You seem to know better than I. Factor in that not even people in first world countries can guarantee they will have a meal tomorrow because they're too poor. And for someone who blames all consumers you're a little quick to call others arrogant. Now go even distribution and tell your mom and dad to give half their savings to a tramp, all your friends too. Then everyone can afford food and we can enforce better farming.

You assume that the other food besides meat is healthier.
It isn't.

Nearly 80% of food products have high fructose corn syrup in them, that's hardly healthy.
Biodiversity is near non-existent with everyone eating the same kind of apple, because nobody likes to eat tiny small apples that Re bitter as hell.
As a consequwnce, diseases have evolved while food remains at a standstill and we counteract this by using a chemicals. A lot of them.

Face the fact that anything bought from a big company is processed and by your definition, bad for you. I also don't know where you live but hell it's not in any urbanized location and I'll tell you Not everywhere has farmer's markets.

Hell, you realise the growth time of non-hormone fed chickens is nearly 3x? You propose to decrease production to a 1/4? And really, food surplus only exists in well off countries and distribution is impossible since poor countries are far too poor to import <3.

Once again, not eberybody eats tofu and eggs and beans for their protein.

I'm going to stop posting and go back to readin since arguing put me badly behind.

Last edited by Dafat-MKII at 1:19 pm, Feb 21 2011

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ManBearPig
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1:12 pm, Feb 21 2011
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Quote

After watching that video, it makes me want to rethink buying that $2.49 worth of 30 eggs I regularly buy from the retail shop.. >_<;

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Post #448633 - Reply to (#448630) by Brucie_kun
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1:24 pm, Feb 21 2011
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Quote from Brucie_kun
Quote

After watching that video, it makes me want to rethink buying that $2.49 worth of 30 eggs I regularly buy from the retail shop.. >_<;


Yeah it is terrible isn't it. I just hope you understand now why you can get 30 eggs for the price of a dozen free range. It is like when you buy pirate copied dvds yeah it is cheaper but the quality is no way near.

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Post #448638 - Reply to (#448586) by the-burden
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1:57 pm, Feb 21 2011
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Quote from the-burden
For starters don't compare factory farming to lions. Lions don't know how to kill humainly because they are not human also lions do not force bread there prey into large quantities and keep them in cages. Lions do not kill for any other value than to survive. Also we do not need to buy as much meat as we do.

Also I think it is important that you understand that although we are an animal we are not primitve and we KNOW how to kill humainley so why don't we? It just seems stupid to go oh but a lion kills it's prey this way. Again we are not like any other animal we can look after our animals until the time is right to slaughter them and we can do so humainly.

The amount of food we waste in this country shows that we do not need to buy the amount of meat that we do.

Sorry if I have repeated myself a lot but that is what I need you to understand.


Okay, explain to me how to kill humanely.
Should we give a prayer? And offer it to the gods before we stab it with a knife? Should to do that to all of the billions of cows and chickens that Americans eat a year?

I'm not saying that because lions do it, we should too. We're human. I understand we're a level above all other living creatures. But because we're a level above mere animals, we have many things creatures of the wild don't. We're human. We have an emotional attachment to living things. Lions on the other hand, have one thing on their mind, survival. That's why they don't have pets. I just don't understand the emotional connection associated with killing an animal. We have animals and we take care of them, because we're human we will develop an attachment to the creature and then we go ahead to kill it. How does that make sense? It's like killing a pet. I'd rather have no emotional attachment to my food.

I'm sure the people who buy food and throw it away weren't thinking they're going to waste food on purpose. It probably went bad and they can't eat it anymore. Do you think they enjoy wasting food and wasting their money? I don't think so.
Besides, it their money. They'll do what they want with it. You want to spend your money on "humanely killed" meat products and they want to spend it on something else. Let them be.

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