Lately I'm seeing an influx of non-Asian comics (manga/manhwa/manhua) on MangaUpdates... So I'm wondering what you (the community) actually define as manga.

By my definition manga can only be called manga if it's produced in Japan (by either a Japanese artist or Japanese company, but definitely a strong Japanese connection).
When talking about manga with other people, manhwa and manhua are automatically included unless specified (i.e. Japanese manga)... This doesn't make it manga but does talk easier.

Something produced in Europe or America by a non-asian artist (and/or not working for an Asian company) can not, and should not, be called 'manga'. This would be like writing a book and calling it a movie.


The official definition:
Noun
漫画 (hiragana まんが, katakana マンガ, romaji manga, historical hiragana まんぐゎ)

a picture drawn as one pleases without restraint
a pictorial representation which exaggerates features for comic or satirical effect; a caricature
a story told with pictures and dialog; a comic

This would mean every comic could be called 'manga'... Even those silly superhero comics created in America.
Though this would not be the first time the official definition and the 'street' meaning differ.

What think you?
Should there be some clear rules/guides as to what can be called manga, or do you genuinely don't care?

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I agree with your definition, but I don't think it's necessary to have some clear guide/rule to define one.

Nah, those superhero comic don't deserve to be called manga, even tough some manga/anime has take the story and change it into manga (ex: tiger&bunny). It just feel different....

Note: no offensive meaning for those who like/create comic from America


Last edited by Sorcha at 4:07 am, Sep 6 2011

http://www.mangaupdates.com/faq.html?cid=1#item8




This is a false analogy.

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It should be remembered that there are two definitions of manga and you bring up the native one. Manga as defined by the community is "comics produced in Japan" more or less. But "manga" has also come to stand for the particular art style Japanese comics have which manhua and manhwa share and the uninitiated simply don't care for the distinction.

And if you look at it from that angle... Maybe there should be a word for western comics in manga style as well? Something along the lines of manhua and manhwa, as in similar sounding yet distinct.

Japanese comics is manga as far as I'm concerned but there could be western comics out there that has manga like qualities and as such it should be appreciated (if its good) and not dismissed simply because it was made in the wrong part of the world. Right?

It might be a bit strong, true...
But they are trying to sell a product by naming it something that it's not (or is debatable).

It wouldn't matter as much if manga was just a name for Japanese comics, but it has become much more than that.

To be honest, I don't really care it they promote their work as manga, What I do mind is that many people are starting to adopt these 'foreign mangas' as real mangas.
What's more, they are even appearing in 'manga databases' like MangaUpdates.

Sure, we all know what is what and either simply ignore it or recognise them for what they are... But those unfamiliar or new don't.


I do agree with Hartland though, maybe just name it 'western manga' instead of manga?
To make matters more complex, what about doujinshi?


Or maybe I'm just obsessing about something silly again.

P.S.
I'm not saying 'western' manga is bad per se, I'm just against calling it what it's not.

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I normally refer manga as "Japanese comic".

Though manhwa or manhua is now on the rising, they are not 'manga'. Since you should have notice, they are called 'manhwa' or 'manhua', having their own categories. A true fans would learn to recognize the different between one and another. The same goes for westerns called 'comics'.

One of the reasons why you see manhwa and manhua on here due to the popularity they have attained oversea, plus they are very similar in style of drawing to manga, so manga fanatics like us love them.

Just my two cents.

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This is so hilarious. They are two completely different forms of media! You can't use that absurd analogy in this situation!

But yeah, I agree, but it's all semantics really. When I think and talk about manga, I'm referring to Japanese comics, not manhwa or OEL manga-inspired comics.

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And here is where we diverge. Manga is just the name for Japanese comics. In fact, even going that far is stretching it; manga is just the Japanese word for comic. We use it for Japanese comics because it is convenient to do so rather than saying "Japanese comic" all the time.

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First off...manhwa, manhua, are both Asian...not Japanese but either Korean or Taiwan/China/etc based, so they're Asian too.

Second, Manga is the Japanese word/term of what NA calls "comic". They call it manga for what we call comics.

Third...OEL (original english language "manga") I'd considered to be comics done in manga style, I'd personally never call them just "manga" simply because they're not anywhere close to Japan (in work origin or quality) as well as it being some crap tokyopop dumped en masse and polluted the market and degraded the overall quality of everything.

Fourth, manhua, manhwa and so on have been on mangaupdates for ages, it's not a recent thing just because you started to notice them, they've been scanlated/added consistently for years.

Fifth, I don't know who you talk with that thinks the different types are all manga since the manga people I know are well aware of the differences between manga, manhua, manhwa, and oels. We don't ignorantly lump them together as they're clearly distinct in style, presentation and origin. If you can't tell them apart then you need to start brushing up on the various styles and series.

The series listed on mangaupdates are already under different Types whether they're manga, manhwa, manhua or even OELs, so this is a matter of being late to the party. Mangaupdates is well aware of the different types of "comics" in these regions, it's even posted at the front page of the site at the top.

Doujinshi are doujinshi, they're fan works so that's all to their own and labelled already as such on this site.

Really no idea where you got that "official definition" from as even quick googling turns it up as Japanese comics as the core characteristics of manga.That definition seems more focused on the kanji/chinese words "漫画" and gives the definitions of the two words "漫"+ "画" and not of "manga" itself. Since anyone who can read 漫画 will just tell you it's comics, plain and simple. All these types are essentially comics(the original english equivalent word), where they're from and how they're styled are the main differences that sets them apart from each other.

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If it's drawn in a manga style, regardless of where the artist was from or what language the manga was in, then it's a manga. It's as simple as that.
I don't see any reason to go anal over this repeated topic (there was one a few years back).

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Exactly, the 'manga people'...


I'm not attacking MangaUpdates in any way, just using it as an example. Not all OELs are marked as such, some are actually marked as Manga (quick example: Chocolate War).
Also my question/concern as not specifically directed at the MU database, more at the manga reading community.
Or, to be more precise, I asked for what you - the community - think about what is 'manga' and when it can be called such... What are the criteria? (especially since there seem to be so many different variations of this).
Is every comic produced in Japan automatically a manga?
What about comics produced in Japan that are in English, are these OEL (F.A.Q. says yes, but what do you think?


So you think doujinshi are nothing but fan works, and bears no special relation (except the subject) to Japan (or Asia)?
A fan work of a western comic (OEL or not) is also Doujinshi?


Hint: try a dictionary. Got that quote from Wiktionary, but many other online dictionaries state the same thing.

I'm not asking for explanations, I'm asking about opinions.


So manhwa, which is in manga style, is also manga?
What is manga style exactly? Because even in manga styles often differ.... But I see your point.

.. This topic has grown a bit heavier and serious than intended


P.S.
I strongly disagree with the term 'OEL', what about manga imitations produced in Spanish, German, Dutch, or one of the other many languages?

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If we're speaking literally, then manga just means comics.
Of course, to differentiate from "comics" we call it by it's native name of "manga"
And I haven't looked into it, but I'm assuming "manhua" and "manwha" mean "comic" in Korean and Chinese respectively?

Even though I don't like calling comics produced in the "manga" style, OEL Manga. I think it's kinda redundant. Why not call them comics? Why differentiate them from the other comics we're used to just because they use a different art style?
I mean, I don't think people call Usagi Yojimbo a manga,even though the name, the setting and the creator are Japanese.

So yes, I might be a bit misguided, since I know manga just means comics, but to me, "manga" is the comics produced in Japan by Japanese artists/authors (maybe the only exception to that rule is Stan Lee's/Hiroyuki Takei's "Ultimo")
Because even if some of the OEL's are drawn by Korean or Japanese artists, I don't call them manga's because to me the source material was still written by somebody from the Western Hemisphere.

Yes. The format is the same. They're only called manhwa because that's what they're called in their country of origin.

I'm not gonna go in-depth over this because I think it's fairly obvious, so I'll respond with a question:

What about Japanese manga (originating from Japan with Japanese text) drawn by non Japanese? Do you refuse to call them manga even though even the Japanese themselves do?

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No, not if it's published by a Japanese company... Even if that person were to live halfway around the world.

Indeed, there are many exceptions and grey areas.

But, if I understand correctly, the general meaning would be:
Manga: comics originating from Japan or drawn in Japanese manga style, with the prerequisite language being Japanese. With the exceptions of Manhwa and Manhua (language wise).
Location, subject, artists, publisher doesn't matter as long as it is in 'manga style' and/or originates from Japan.

Non-Japanese manga styled comics would be called OEL (even if English is not the original language), but many consider this to also be manga (sort of).

This clears up some misunderstandings on my part.

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Published in Japan and aimed at a Japanese audience.

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