black eye peas I suppose...
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who listens to GOOD rap?!
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10:21 pm, May 16 2008
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10:21 pm, May 16 2008
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Resident Odd
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10:30 pm, May 16 2008
Posts: 665
If you know Korean, I'd recommend Epik High. Some of their songs are really good, in a pop-sort of way, for example: Love Love Love, Fan, and Fly.
What parts them from typical rap artists is that they have basic raps about life, and are less sensual and more thought-provoking.
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What parts them from typical rap artists is that they have basic raps about life, and are less sensual and more thought-provoking.
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Local Crack Dealer
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11:10 pm, May 16 2008
Posts: 535
Quote from ahoaho
Quote from Keel
Quote from ahoaho
The main focus of hip hop, or black music in general, is a bottom up approach. Rhythm, harmony, melody. By and large, Hip Hop removes the melody from the mix, which is why many people, used to highly simple melodies that can be hummed, sung, whatever, don't consider rap to be music.
Recently, hip hop has become prevalent outside of it's initial base, which is mainly low working class urbanites, which is why it has lost touch with it's roots. Instead of telling a story, being a critical view of one's environment, or even what the term MC was born of, a Master of Ceremonies, controlling a crowd at an event/party through improvisational calls, it has morphed into a money making machine that does nothing but exploit racial stereotypes. That is why Nas released an album called Hip Hop is dead.
Recently, hip hop has become prevalent outside of it's initial base, which is mainly low working class urbanites, which is why it has lost touch with it's roots. Instead of telling a story, being a critical view of one's environment, or even what the term MC was born of, a Master of Ceremonies, controlling a crowd at an event/party through improvisational calls, it has morphed into a money making machine that does nothing but exploit racial stereotypes. That is why Nas released an album called Hip Hop is dead.
actually hip hop is doing exactlly what it's inteded to do. Plz the ppl. Hip hop and rap music in general developed from dancehall and reggae. As hard as that is to believe it's true. See dj's or "selectors" would play a rythem and sing or rap over it to make it seem original or like a live performance. When this was all dont the main point of this was a party. Carribean ppl like to dance from mourning ryte beck to mourning. Hip hop is sorta bringing it back straight to the roots. I'm not knocking old rap and i'm definitly not suporting new rap but i consider it all to be music. Being a dancer...what ever gets me amped enough that i can't sit still is my kinda music...my preferance my not b the same as yours...but it's still music none the less.
Hip Hop developed out of Funk and Soul, not 'dancehall' and reggae. Bootsy Collins would have what were essentially raps over the intros and bridges of many of his songs. The actual form developed in a party setting in Brooklyn, Harlem, Queens, etc. There was a DJ (Disc Jockey) who would play a track from a popular song (sometimes even a rock and roll record) for the people to dance to. The MC (Master of Ceremonies) would then get the crowd further into the party mood by essentially making an impromptu speech. Those 'speeches' developed into freestyles. People like Grandmaste Caz and The Cold Crush brothers, and Kurtis Blow, would use the energy of the crowd to fuel their rhymes.
However, like all forms, Hip Hop evolved very soon after it's inception. Kurtis Blow released "Streets of New York" and "The Breaks", which had a more social consciousness to them. That gave way to KRS One, Afrika Bambaataa and the Zulu Nation, A Tribe Called Quest, Public Enemy, and NWA. And if you say that a party group like Sugar Hill Gang is better than Public Enemy or NWA, you might as well just quit now.
Like I said, what is being made now is not hip hop, it's pop music. Just like the so called "R&B", a la Chris Brown, Akon and the rest. Just because black people make it doesn't make it rap/r&b.
No it developed from reggae and dancehall...look at the places you named yourself...there are heavy populations of imigrants, namely carribeanss that live in those places. And the dj "Selector" shouting over the track came from reggae because back then the reggae artists were not really artists. They were all dj's so they themselves would be the ones shouting over most of the tracks and rythems that they played. and when that went over to NY ppl copied it. Alot of the ppl around that time didn't like reggae period but thats why hip hop differs so much from it. They changed it so it tould be the same. What hip hop artists do now reggae artists have been doing for a helluva lot longer. like the cuttting and mixing styles that hip hop used early all came from Jamaica. And the improv speches you mentioned stared out as shout outs and jokes and stuff that dj's would do during songs.I didn't say better i just said longer so it's ovious it would influence it. Hip hop is a helluva lot more carribean then one would assume in origins. And most of the hip hop scene and parties are all mocks of carribean culture
Last edited by Keel at 11:19 pm, May 16 2008
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Madman
Member1:40 am, May 17 2008
Posts: 3342
Quote from ahoaho
The MC (Master of Ceremonies) would then get the crowd further into the party mood by essentially making an impromptu speech. Those 'speeches' developed into freestyles,
That's the part that came from the Caribbeans, the ryhming aspect to these impromptu speeches were greatly influenced by reggae, and the ryhme scheme that was apparent in there. The tempo of traditional reggae makes it hard to see this connection though.
Anyways, If you enjoy hip-hop, go get yourself Mos Def's mixtape "We are Hip-Hop, Me, You, Everybody" that's quality beyond measure. Besides, heres most of my favorites.
Nas
Lupe Fiasco
Common
Kanye
Jay-Z
Camp-Lo (Luchini anybody?)
Mos Def
Ludacris
Busta Ryhmes
Wu-Tang
Eric B & Rakin
Biggy
Tupac
Big Pun
A Tribe Called Quest
Talib Kweli
Pharoahe Monche (I wonder how many of you really know bout this guy?)
Edit: Forgot Outkast. Lol, gotta love em
Last edited by Calliber at 10:00 pm, May 17 2008
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2:00 am, May 17 2008
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2:00 am, May 17 2008
Posts: 3
Can't believe no one listens to Andre Nickatina, so I'm going to list him.
Smooth Operator
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2:47 am, May 17 2008
Posts: 5329
Quote from Keel
No it developed from reggae and dancehall...look at the places you named yourself...there are heavy populations of imigrants, namely carribeanss that live in those places. And the dj "Selector" shouting over the track came from reggae because back then the reggae artists were not really artists. They were all dj's so they themselves would be the ones shouting over most of the tracks and rythems that they played. and when that went over to NY ppl copied it. Alot of the ppl around that time didn't like reggae period but thats why hip hop differs so much from it. They changed it so it tould be the same. What hip hop artists do now reggae artists have been doing for a helluva lot longer. like the cuttting and mixing styles that hip hop used early all came from Jamaica. And the improv speches you mentioned stared out as shout outs and jokes and stuff that dj's would do during songs.I didn't say better i just said longer so it's ovious it would influence it. Hip hop is a helluva lot more carribean then one would assume in origins. And most of the hip hop scene and parties are all mocks of carribean culture
Is that part of it? Yes. Is that the whole of the development and further nature of it? No. And why are you saying that Reggae artists are not artists? I listen to loads of early reggae and ska, and it's far more artistic than most modern 'black' music.
I trace the roots of Hip Hop in America from spirituals and field hollers to blues (specifically talking blues) to Soul to funk and then to Hip Hop. The first major artist to use rhythmic talking lyrics was John Lee Hooker in the late 1940's. His music is based off of Boogie Woogie, which is the most basic dance beat there is, and is still implemented in modern music.
Also, there are some analogues to Bebop as well(in the post-block party hip hop), specifically the music of Miles Davis, Charlie Parker, and Dizzy Gillespie. Dizzy Gillespie and Charlie Parker collaborated on several works in the late 40's, such as Salt Peanuts and Manteca that have talking lyrical breaks in the midst of them, and also rely heavily on afro-cuban rhythms, which are still quite common. In the late 1960's Miles Davis released Bitches Brew, which consists of the repetitive riffs characterized in many hip hop tracks.
Then you have Funk and Soul. I would say that musically speaking, the big 3 influences on Hip Hop are Sly and the Family Stone, Parliament/Funkadelic, and James Brown. I really shouldn't have to explain that one.
One more thing. Reggae itself is analogous to blues. The main difference is that it relies on what is called the Skank, which is a syncopated rhythm. That means the main riff comes in on the down beat in a staccato stroke. The progressions in early ska and reggae come from the same call and response format that is in blues, in fact the same call and response that is in all black music.
I really could go on, but I really don't need to. I am a musician, by the way. I actually study this stuff in depth.
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Madman
Member7:27 am, May 17 2008
Posts: 3342
Quote from Keel
No it developed from reggae and dancehall...look at the places you named yourself...there are heavy populations of imigrants, namely carribeanss that live in those places. And the dj "Selector" shouting over the track came from reggae because back then the reggae artists were not really artists. They were all dj's so they themselves would be the ones shouting over most of the tracks and rythems that they played. and when that went over to NY ppl copied it. Alot of the ppl around that time didn't like reggae period but thats why hip hop differs so much from it. They changed it so it tould be the same. What hip hop artists do now reggae artists have been doing for a helluva lot longer. like the cuttting and mixing styles that hip hop used early all came from Jamaica. And the improv speches you mentioned stared out as shout outs and jokes and stuff that dj's would do during songs.I didn't say better i just said longer so it's ovious it would influence it. Hip hop is a helluva lot more carribean then one would assume in origins. And most of the hip hop scene and parties are all mocks of carribean culture
It seems to me that you are confusing reggae today with reggae back then. The DJ's shouting over the tracks is part of the Carnival reggae genre, the new genre in NY where there's that upbeat, dancing, and shouting to it. TRADITIONAL reggae was too laid back, and if they did have DJ's i can almost assure you that there was none of the shouting and jokes you were talking about.
Since your point is way to vague, and ahoaho has summarized his hip-hop term paper, I give this round to ahoaho.
I know what your thinking, "who are you to determine the winner?" Well, I'm pretty sure any onlooker can see the obvious victor. And besides, I've worked with my brother who's a music producer. Once you've worked the spin tables yourself, you tend to learn fact from fiction.
SUCH AS: Mariah Carey and Nick Cannon's marriage is nothing more than a publicity stunt, in order to cover up the fact that Mariah is actually getting married to someone else that's not the hottest bachelor on the scene. Once a female (Edited: ) Pop singer gets married, her carrier becomes sort of a burden to continue.
That was just to verify my validity's, just in case anyone was trying to undercut me.
Last edited by Calliber at 9:19 pm, May 17 2008
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Quote from Keel
jibba jabba. Sorry, quoting huge posts was getting huge.
I think you made one of my points for me. Thanks.
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Quote from Calliber
Pharoahe Monche (I wonder how many of you really know bout this guy?)
*picks nose* internal affairs, desire, ghostwrite for diddy last album....hmm what more can i say?
@aho *applause*
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Smooth Operator
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10:54 am, May 17 2008
Posts: 5329
Yeah, I need more Pharoahe Monche, I only have a couple tracks off of some compilations and mixtapes.
@Callibur- That last statement made me die a bit inside. That's why I made the statement that contemporary "R&B" is for the most part pop music. The song structure and thematic material is a far cry from rhythm and blues. I find it funny that the music has progressed from pure and true love music to pure and true sex music. TBH, there are few artists that make actual baby makin music any more. Give me my Al Green and Teddy Pendergrass.
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@Callibur- That last statement made me die a bit inside. That's why I made the statement that contemporary "R&B" is for the most part pop music. The song structure and thematic material is a far cry from rhythm and blues. I find it funny that the music has progressed from pure and true love music to pure and true sex music. TBH, there are few artists that make actual baby makin music any more. Give me my Al Green and Teddy Pendergrass.
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11:31 am, May 17 2008
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Eminem
50 Cent
T.Pain
Chris brown
R.Kelly
The Game
D12
LiL John
LiL Wayne
Fat Joe
and many more but i forget....
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50 Cent
T.Pain
Chris brown
R.Kelly
The Game
D12
LiL John
LiL Wayne
Fat Joe
and many more but i forget....
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Smooth Operator
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12:01 pm, May 17 2008
Posts: 5329
Quote from sakon
Eminem
50 Cent
T.Pain
Chris brown
R.Kelly
The Game
D12
LiL John
LiL Wayne
Fat Joe
and many more but i forget....
50 Cent
T.Pain
Chris brown
R.Kelly
The Game
D12
LiL John
LiL Wayne
Fat Joe
and many more but i forget....
Aside from The Game, and older Fat Joe, I would disagree with most of that list, as 3 artists are not rappers, and Lil John is an abomination.
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12:23 pm, May 17 2008
Posts: 833
Quote from ahoaho
Aside from The Game, and older Fat Joe, I would disagree with most of that list, as 3 artists are not rappers, and Lil John is an abomination.
Fat Joe was NEVER nice, he threw a couple memorable lines back in the day, but they werent even his words, Pun Ghostwrites for him.
not many can rap on da same level as eminem, game can make some decent albums.
wayne i aint gonna front, carter II was decent , but him appearing on all dese mixtapes claimin he da best, if carter III flops, then he dont got anything to offer to the table dat someone like cassidy, fabolous, or 50 cent can't bring.
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Quote from dacbiet
Quote from ahoaho
Aside from The Game, and older Fat Joe, I would disagree with most of that list, as 3 artists are not rappers, and Lil John is an abomination.
Fat Joe was NEVER nice, he threw a couple memorable lines back in the day, but they werent even his words, Pun Ghostwrites for him.
not many can rap on da same level as eminem, game can make some decent albums.
wayne i aint gonna front, carter II was decent , but him appearing on all dese mixtapes claimin he da best, if carter III flops, then he dont got anything to offer to the table dat someone like cassidy, fabolous, or 50 cent can't bring.
The way you type makes me laugh. For some odd abrupt reason.
BTW, Pharoah Monche is beast, how could I ever forget to mention him.
Madman
Member9:17 pm, May 17 2008
Posts: 3342
Quote from ahoaho
@Callibur- That last statement made me die a bit inside. That's why I made the statement that contemporary "R&B" is for the most part pop music. The song structure and thematic material is a far cry from rhythm and blues. I find it funny that the music has progressed from pure and true love music to pure and true sex music. TBH, there are few artists that make actual baby makin music any more. Give me my Al Green and Teddy Pendergrass.
Ok, allow me to correct my previous statement. Once a pop artist gets married, his or her carrier becomes a burden to continue. I considered Mariah a R&B singer cause of her past work.
Quote from sakon
Eminem
50 Cent
T.Pain
Chris brown
R.Kelly
The Game
D12
LiL John
LiL Wayne
Fat Joe
and many more but i forget....
50 Cent
T.Pain
Chris brown
R.Kelly
The Game
D12
LiL John
LiL Wayne
Fat Joe
and many more but i forget....
I thought we were talking about rap here?
So scratch those who don't rap, and we have...
Eminem
50 Cent
T.Pain
The Game
D12
LiL Wayne
Fat Joe
(I'm not counting little john, cause I don't consider what he does rap. I'd consider it entertainment...)
Your list still doesn't look much better. Aside from Game and Eminem when he wants to make a serious track. Lil Wayne does say some crazy stuff in his lines, But it's so obvious that he has ghostwriters, I don't see why everyone sweats em... Everyone from G-Unit is trash except Lloyd Banks.
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