Yes. Why did Ancient Romans and Greeks marry, if it's a religious act created by judaism? Why do so many non-christian countries have a tradition of marriage, if it's a religious act? Why can a judge marry people? Why is marriage so pervasive across the globe, regardless of religion and location?

Marriage isn't a religious act.

If you don't believe me, feel free to read through the history and learn a bit about how it was hijacked:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage#History

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THANK YOU, x0mbiec0rb, for your voice of reason. *bows at x0mbiec0rp's feet*

Lol, I still don't understand why people keep getting religion confused with marriage. Sigh...

. . . that is very prescriptive x0mbie. . .

when people, in a western society, says marriage, they think church marriage. . . getting married in a church, before a priest is the prototypical marriage, now we are not jabbering about an opinion but about semantics, and regardless of its origin the current general meaning of marriage is church marriage, the one you do in front of a judge may be a marriage per se, but semantically, prototypically, it's called a civil union or a STATE marriage.

Now I don't disagree with you on any point of the facts you are putting up, yes, the institutuion called marriage was stolen, I mean seriously, judaism was manufactured all together when it was created by several other religions from the middle east primarily.

But this does not change the fact that people generally perceive a marriage as something you generally do in front of a priest. at least in the western countries.

It does counter the idea that religious custom should have influence over whether a group of people should or should not be allowed a right the rest of the population takes for granted, though.

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and none of this would be a problem if it wasn't for the fact that all of us, including same sex couples cling to the religious aspects of marriage, if you separate church and state and have a marriage in front of a judge without any religion involved then I don't see a problem. Just let people who believe in god cling to it.

I don't see why it should affect us in any way. They can have their religious marriage and then there's the non-religious version. But in all honesty, this wont work because same sex couples will probarbly want the religious aspect of marriage even if church and state was separated, solely because it would be an option not available to them.

In most US states (likely even ALL US states, though not 100% about this, as I haven't checked them all.... but certainly a good bunch of them), a married couple that married NOT in some type of a church (i.e., married before a judge /receiving a state marriage certificate etc) has IDENTICAL legal (and social and any other) rights to those married in church. I noticed there's some confusion going on on this issue in some previous posts coming from people who do not even live in the US.
In the state where I live (Eastern Coast state), nobody would even ask you where you got married (in a church or not), nobody cares, and it'd be even impolite to ask, as there are so many different religions here.
Yet, sex-same marriages are still illegal in my state, yet legal in a neighboring one. I personally think it's just the matter of time in my state, and in ten years or so we'll get it resolved (and same-sex marriages will be allowed). Re: the excuses of those who oppose it in my state: it's usually "social norms" only, anyone (aka serious politician or public speaker) mentioning "religion" at this point would just look ridiculous so they usually don't.

[kaayy i live in the US and this is really long but here's my argument]

i'm not a hippy buuutt...
first of all, we are ALL born equal regardless of where you're born and their laws.
peeps need to stop actin all high n mighty cus we are all human. end of story.
no one is better than anyone else.
whatever you might say to go against it, it's true.
money, heredity, race, gender, social status, sexual preference, whatever it is,
NO one is better than anyone whether you like it or not.
we are all living on the same planet just trying to survive and find happiness.
that's it. (:

so, to deny someone equality just because they're different,
is to deny their own humanity

in western countries marriage may seem as a "religious" thing
but personally, it's more of a "spiritual" promise
practiced around the world since the dawn of mankind.
heck, even cavemen made some sort of pact like marriage
to protect and claim their mate etc..
if someone loves someone else so much
and they're willing to make such a spiritual pact
promising to spend their lifetime (or as long as possible) with that person,
it honestly, should NOT matter on the sexual preference
because "love knows no boundaries", including gender.
to me, it's absolutely illogical to deny someone to marry just because it's looked down upon by the "majority" (?!).

think about it.

example 1: the women's suffrage. women were not treated equally in the US until 1920 when the 19th amendment was passed and prohibited gender-based restrictions on voting.
example 2: up until the the 1960's civil rights movement, african americans (and other minorities) were denied equal rights because it was looked down upon by the majority.

it took someone to help transform the ignorant thinking of others, and make a stand for change.

so, gender, religion, and race are now all treated equally.
what's the difference for sexual orientation? [rhetorical question] haha

it's just pointless to keep running around in circles and saying "no"
just because it goes against someone's "morals" or "beliefs"
because, honey, we all see life a little differently
and NONE of us will ever completely agree with one another.
so, instead, we must find a balance and accept ALL.

we all need to stop wasting so much negative energy on hating someone else
because they're different (like, being gay) and mind our own business.
seriously, a gay couple getting married physically does not affect anyone.

so, peeps need to stop bein so ignorant and keep their noses out of other peeps personal love lives.

gay marriage needs to be legal asap
because once gay marriage is accepted/legal in the US and internationally,
that's one more step of improvement for humanity. haha >.<

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Perception is reality. Life is either as amazing or terrible you perceive it as.

thanks for clearing things up for us Sunnie =)

I am going to state this in general, as a homosexual and an atheist, civil unions are not enough. I would vote against civil unions if it was on the ballet in my state! Separate is not equal according to me and the supreme court of the United States of America. It, the solution, must have the same name, processes, and benefits or I will not accept it.

The only circumstances where I would accept civil unions is if heterosexuals had to get them too.


Oh, and a quick hurry for Washington D.C. legalizing same sex marriage! Oh yeah, that's right! Our nation's capital! What a victory...

Yep, yep! Was that today or yesterday when the law went into affect?

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Actually, Wednesday is when it went into effect.

I'm bad with time. I read the article about it thursday, then...

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I could care less if the same sex marriage was in effect or not but if people find that to be their cup of tea, then go for it. Just don't let it be something huge or worth celebrating or flaunting as if it just came about. Gay has been around for as long as one could remember. If you feel like escalating the relationship to the next level, then please do.

I would hope however that `homosexual' won't be taught in school as an extra unit. There's other ways to raise awareness to help other people understand that gay people are people too and should not be shunned and become an outcast. I respect them and their courage to stand out.

From my perspective, experiences, and opinion, I will always stand behind marriage with the `opposite sex' but I will not oppose if someone wants a same gender marriage. I "believe" that the natural process is a male and a woman but some find relationships between the same gender to be the 'natural' process, so who am I to judge? I know some go through this phase due to identity crisis, confusion, abuse, hate of opposite sex due to traumatic experiences, teasing, or it just comes naturally or not, what have you. In the end, same sex or not, natural or not, it is the environment we were brought up in and who we hang out with, expecially at our most impressionable age and onwards.

my question is why you want to legalize same sex "church" marriage? I mean, if I want to get married in a muslim moske, I don't believe I can (maybe there are liberal exceptions who would allow an open atheist to do so but I don't think so), but neither do I find it a big problem, because I have respect of the fact that muslims find their marriage sacred and therefore me getting married in their holy house would be sacreligious.

so is the reason you want to have a church marriages because you can't, or because it, in some other way than prohibits you from the actual process of it, inscrutinizes your civil rights?

I mean, if you get the civil rights from a civil union then every union is a form of civil union (whoa, "civil" and "union" galore), it's just a matter of whether you add a religious aspect to it or not.

Now I don't try to act moronic here, I'm pro-gay "religious" marriage in the sense that I think that any respectable religion would allow it, but I just don't want to force something down peoples throat, because that will just bring problems in the future instead.



my question is why they're not enough? is it because it inscrutinizes legal benefits etc. or because it's an option not available to you?

Anyway, I'm pro-gay religious marriage in the sense that I think that any respectable religion would allow it, but I don't want to force it down peoples throats because it will only bring problems in the future.

Last edited by blakraven66 at 2:13 am, Mar 6 2010

I don't think that's true. Mosques have nothing to do with a Muslim marriage. They just marry and have a big party (parties) someplace, and that's that, you're married! o.o;; Then you need to go and make it official/legal with some bureaucratic procedure, of course.

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