No/No

Seriously i think that's completely ridiculous.
It's all fictional, what kind of fucked up world are we in if peoples worry more about fictional characters than worry about real problems our world have...

I voted "Don't care" because I don't read anything like it or similar to it, so it wouldn't make a difference to me one way or another. That being said, it would be one thing if this kind of stuff was images of actual children, but it's not. It's fiction. To make fictional illustrations of hypothetical situations illegal is opening a whole new can of worms. If it's okay to make shota/loli illegal, then what's to stop numerous other hentai forms of manga from being made illegal? Just because someone likes to read about fictional situations and forms of intercourse doesn't mean they are into it in real life. I know personally there a plenty of situations, actions, and types of people I love to encounter in manga that I have no interest in and would hate to have to deal with in real life.

Oh Man...Why are you guys, fighting over Unnecessary things ?

Does it actually matters...is it harming your daily life ?
Are you a Sociopath or Antisocial human being ?
Doesn't matter...try to speak to the real topic...

And Please, don't misunderstand Sociopath and Antisocial with Criminal...

Being Antisocial or Sociopath is totally different from being a Criminal...

A criminal always can be a Normal guy or others like antisocial or sociopath or a maniac...ok

Sociopath = someone with a sociopathic personality; a person with an antisocial personality disorder (`psychopath' was once widely used but has now been superseded by `sociopath')

Sociopathic Personality = a personality disorder characterized by amorality and lack of affect; capable of violent acts without guilt feelings (`psychopathic personality' was once widely used but was superseded by `sociopathic personality' to indicate the social aspects of the disorder, but now `antisocial personality disorder' is the preferred term)

Antisocial = hostile to or disruptive of normal standards of social behavior

Antisocial Personality Disorder = a personality disorder characterized by amorality and lack of affect; capable of violent acts without guilt feelings (`psychopathic personality' was once widely used but was superseded by `sociopathic personality' to indicate the social aspects of the disorder, but now `antisocial personality disorder' is the preferred term)

but, if you still insist on doing this...Then GuttedGnome certainly wins over zeroINUGAMI, in terms of Knowledge...Okay...Peace

Last edited by MinatoAce at 8:15 am, Nov 15 2014

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No/No.
Simply because it's fiction and it's not harming anyone.
I don't see any problem if someone reads it on his own computer and doesn't bother anyone.
Anyway, reading loli/shota wont turn anyone into a pedophile (just saying in case some people still think that way) and if it's banned, then might as well ban all the hentai/gore mangas or mangas that show rape and killing.

This this this.

I don't think people realize how LETHAL any kind of censorship would be to ALL kinds of writing/drawings/manga/books.

So you're fine with snuff, guro and torture as long it doesn't involve children? Oh boy, you don't read much beyond the mainstream do you?

Insider trading.

Person A walks into a room with a pencil and paper but leaves only with the pencil. Person B then walks into the room with nothing but walks out with a paper. Person B later acts on information that only Person A should have known. The paper is never found but Person B cannot explain/justify why he made those actions in any reasonable and/or logical fashion.

Try taking some basic law classes.

This is not the question asked, and no it's not oké.
Anyway, I've read already a lot (over 1500, off course I didn't finish the things I don't like) and I've read a lot that isn't mainstream. As a matter of act I've read at least some of each genre. And I know for sure, do not touch innocent children. Indeed it's not the only horrible thing in the world, but stay with question that is asked.

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No / No

Should we make everything illegal just because there are people who think it's wrong?

Games, movies, literature.... Anything involving killing, rape, violence, or any kind of action we generally consider "wrong" should be banned with this logic.

You could no longer find your favorite work by George R.R Martin in your local bookstore, there wouldn't be a movie genre called gore and every person playing Call Of Duty would be called murderers.

It just doesn't work that way.

If someone wants to read loli or shota, let them. It doesn't harm you in any way. Reading FICTIONAL CONTENT doesn't make anyone a pedophile.

And all of this is coming from a straight girl who doesn't read loli/shota.

PS: Sorry my bad English

I voted don´t care and not no/no because i honestly don´t. If i don´t read then they don´t exist to me. I may hate the genre but censoship is bad and leads to worse. Starting to protecting fictional characters rights but looking the other way when real problems in society exist in the moment of peak hypocricity.

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So Child pornography is probably the only means of entertainment that actually harms people, since you need actors. But with loli/shota you don't really need said actors since they're just drawings. People debate whether loli encourages actual child molestation or serves as a means to deter actual child molesters from doing that shit in real life (same way people say violent entertainment encourages violence or not). And of course whether the loli or shota in question actually is a child is iffy (5000 year old demon).

I put "don't care" because even if it is perfectly legal, people will still look at you funny kinda like Bestiality and Incest in some state. In fact it's worst than that, it's more like Guro which is perfectly legal to fap to but you can't (and shouldn't) do that in real life.

I can understand (if deeply disagree with) those who vote Yes/Yes, but...
Who are the hypocritical assholes who actually vote Yes/No or No/Yes!?

As to banning these things...
Sure, loli and shota may be sick and disgusting, but:
Does it hurt anyone?
No.
Does it create, encourage or strengthen any inclinations towards sexual behaviour towards real children?
No.
Is it used to, in some way, assist paedophiles to either commit their crimes, or lessen the negative consequences they may face?
No.
Does it, in any way, directly or in-directly, cause harm.
No.
There is no evidence to say it does, and plenty to say it doesn't ...unlike real child porn (which harms the victim, by it's very existence, for a start).

On what basis, then, should it be banned?
"I don't like it, so it should be banned"?
...because using that motivation, you can ban pretty much ANYTHING.

There are a lot of manga, that portray rape and/or sexual assault. That's nearly as bad.
There are a lot of manga, that portray murder. That is far worse. (if you don't agree, then why don't we kill all children who have been victims of sexual assaults or rape, so as to put them out of their misery?)
Some manga express certain beliefs or attitudes, that they deeply disagree with.
There are a lot of manga, that portray non-belief in religion, which some find utterly deplorable. Some finding it worse than any of the above.
There are a lot of manga, that portray belief in a religion, that differs from theirs, which they find to be only somewhat less bad than non-belief.

Also, where do you draw the line?
How do you determine which character is too young?
What about characters who are 700 years old, but look like they are 8? Or characters who are supposed to be 14-16, but who have bodies that no 14-16 year (but maybe a 18-20 year old) old could possibly have?

I remember a court case, where the "police expert" (from the prosecutors side), who of course knew nothing of art or how stylized art makes her attempts at measurements rather suspect, was asked by the defence attorney to judge the age of the girl in a particular, rather more realistic, drawing. I'd have judged the girl to be around 20 (possibly 16 ...or 26. Hell she could be 30).
She said 11. (also, she said that, because the genitals where blurred/censored [as it must, by Japanese law], this was intended to draw your attention there, further proving it to be pornographic)
This isn't just a problem with drawings, of course, as people have been arrested for child porn, for possessing porn depicting adults, but where at least one of the porn actors where deemed, by the "experts", using their "scientific" methods, to be under-age. Basically, no one appears to have bothered to construct proper ways to determine if a person is under-age or not, but instead rely on tools that were never meant to be used for it, and which are not up to the task.

...and do you limit it to manga? After all, if you ban loli/shota in manga, why not in all other media?
That would make mountains of renowned, important and praised works, instantly banned.
The bible? Banned.
The koran? Banned
Romeo and Juliet (as previously mentioned)? Banned (Romeo and Juliet are both, very much, underage).
Lolita? Banned, of course.
Any works (many of which are autobiographical) detailing romance/lust in adolescents? Banned.
"Don't stand so close to me" - The Police? Banned
"Hot for teacher" - Van Halen? Banned
"Sweet sixteen" - Billy Idol? Banned
"Walk this way" - Aerosmith? Banned
"It" by Stephen King? Banned

I could go on ...for many, many pages. A ludicrous amount of pages.

Edit:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:John_Bauer_-_Princess_ Tuvstarr_gazing_down_into_the_dark_waters_of_the_forest_tar n._-_Google_Art_Project.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:The_Toilet_of_Venus,_by_Fran% C3%A7ois_Boucher.jpghttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:The_Toile t_of_Venus,_by_Fran%C3%A7ois_Boucher.jpg

Last edited by zarlan at 12:26 pm, Nov 15 2014

There are a lot of means of entertainment that needs actors, but which cause no harm.
TV, movies, theater...

...and there are a lot of means of entertainment that need no actors, but which cause harm.
Having a fight in a Colosseum, where you have people fight to the death, doesn't involve any acting. Not to mention that some people may find it entertaining to kill others ...which does rather seem to be a harmful thing.

The issue is, that there is no way to create child porn, which does not harm the children involved.

And just as with the violent media issue, there is no serious debate.
It has been studied and there are no signs that either cause any harm.
Especially violent media, which has been studied to a ludicrous degree.

Unless the thing can be shown to be harmful, on what possible grounds would you have any reason to forbid it?
Especially in societies that supposedly hold the right to Free Expression, to be a valuable human right?

Propaganda and agitation can harm people too and you could need actors for that one also. The moment we outlaw harmfull media that does not directly harm anyone is the moment we install tough crime. So i may despise straight out pedofilic fictional content(japan is not the only culprit by far), ero-guro or rape-porn but i will turn into a hypocritical Janus the monet i start working against it.
I find it interesting that shota-ban "won" againt loli-ban.

Last edited by residentgrigo at 12:24 pm, Nov 15 2014

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