I think you have faith and religion mixed up.

As already pointed out that has nothing to do with evolution. Read what Jayof9s wrote.

I would be very much interested to find out where you read that. Carbon is accepted to be the fourth most abundant chemical element in the Universe as measured in parts per million, by mass. So odds are that if you gather ALL of the carbon in the universe and put it on Earth you will most likely fill up the entire solar system at the very least (if not the whole Milky Way) because the Universe is much more vast than a human mind can hope to comprehend.
Oh and considering how much mass all that condensed carbon will have (if its all supposed to be on Earth it should be pretty damn condensed) it is safe to say that it will cause a massive black hole.
Umm to sum it up I don't think that the article you read is very credible... Sorry - blame physics.

Edit: For those interested there is a chart: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abundance_of_the_chemical_eleme nts

There is no citation or source for that chart but I assume it the numbers are about right. I know for sure that the order of the first 4 is: hydrogen, helium, oxygen, carbon. Cannot validate actual numbers (which would be only estimated anyway) or the order of the following elements. If you are dying to know for sure buy some chemistry textbook or google "abundance of the chemical elements" and hope that you come across an actual source.

Last edited by xtr3m3dude at 3:33 pm, Jun 30 2008

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No, I didn't. There's more than one definition of faith, and I took the wrong one. Sorry. It's just that faith usually refers to a religion or confidence.

Anyways, there is substantial observed evidence that backs up the theory as well as holes. You can choose whether you want to believe in it or not. That's what science categorizes "theories" as. But if you look into Darwin's specific observations, and those made that support evolution, you'll find that it happens. Today, with genetics added to evolution, there is more evidence that supports it than refutes it.

Alright, I think I got the question.

Evolution isn't based on faith. It's based on evidence and fact. People don't believe in evolution blindly. We acknowledge that we don't know everything, and that many specifics are lacking, but are also pretty sure that we've got the general idea right.

Religion is different in that it's not evidence based. It's all belief. Some people would suggest some things as proof for their beliefs, but these are almost always subjective interpretations or... wrong. It's very different.

At any rate.

That documentary was crap? It covered all the arguments brought up in the trial and why ID was not scientifically viable. It showed proof that the ID proponents were dishonest. It showed the final conclusion and ruling that went against ID. Obviously it went against your personal standing on ID vs Evolution so now its crap.

You want hard evidence? Well that goes both ways. Before I go online and dig up scientific articles to support my claims, why don't you give me some evidence? Show me archaeological EVIDENCE to support ID. Give me geological evidence to support young earth creationism. Provide peer-reviewed scientific journals that point to an intelligent source for existence.

I'll save you the research time. There is no evidence supporting creationism

Assuming we are talking about the Bible's creationism theory, then that has been disproved already. Biblical creationists say that the Earth was created about 4000 years ago... Theres geological evidence of older things than that. Fossils of plants, dinosaurs, etc. Also now with the Hubble telescope, people have observed the universe and have seen different stages of stars and planets' life cycles. These processes take billions of years, the Earth was not created in 4000 years.

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I'm may be going on wrong info, but I read somewhere that fossils date the rocks and the rocks date the fossils. IF 'm right that would be circular thinking. Plus that whole layer rock thing is false since that layers are not the same all over the world.

I should certainly hope that no one believes that the world was created 4000 years ago considering we have evidence from human civilizations even farther back. (That's just 2000 BCE.) Wasn't it 8000 years that they believe in, or...?

I think ( or I heard it somewhere ) that faith is unconditional trust in something. Being the humans that we are I guess curiosity gets the best of us and hence I doubt many ( not all ) are ready to believe that evolution is just a faith. We can't be just dropped on this planet all of a sudden, can we ?

I guess I am a little misleading as I might not have understood the question to the exact context but do correct me if I am going the wrong direction.


But one can even argue the controversial theory on how humans evolves in hust a couple of thousands of years to what we are now while other species have hardly changed in most aspects as we have even if they were there before us.

That's not exactly how radiometric dating works. If by "rocks date the fossils" you mean "radioactive material dates the fossils" then you're partially correct, however it functions a bit differently. The general idea (at least how I understand it, and anyone who can prove me wrong or clarify discrepancies would be welcomed, it's been a while since I learned this) is that that carbon-14 in once-living things is produced and decays at a more or less constant rate, which makes the amount in the world constant. Living things constantly take in carbon (including carbon-14) is a large variety of ways, and as a result all living things have the same percentage of carbon-14 in their bodies at any given time. When it dies, it stops taking in new forms of carbon, but the carbon-14 still beta decays in accordance with its half life, so you can tell how old something is based on the percentage of remaining carbon-14 in the sample, and how long it would take to decay down from the original amount. It works to about 50,000 years, I think, and naturally we have stuff from that far back. There are other radioactive elements that can be used, I think, but carbon is the most accurate or easily testable.

The layer thing isn't false because it's different in different parts of the world, but the layers do extend for very large distances, and tend to be the same age within the layers (one again, it's been a while). If it was so easily proven false, it wouldn't be so widely included in education (and the same goes for evolution- it's about the amount of evidence supporting it). Regardless, the typical biblical answer for that seems to be that it's an after-effect of Noah's flood, at least as I understand it (I'm an atheist, so I honestly can't say I'm the most informed person in that regard).

Additionally, there are other processes that clearly take billions of years, as was said earlier. But even most Christians I know don't take the Bible entirely literally- you can believe in a Christian God while still taking things with a grain of salt, or at least that's my take on it, anyway.

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hah...how convenient

well, double standard is nothing new about religious

my God > yr God & yr no God

my Bible > yr Koran & yr science book

Good luck /

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Well, it is faith in that it cannot be proven (macroevolution that is) because we weren't there. Also there are some aspects of Evolution that don't make sense because according to science through time things/creatures become disorganized, but according to Evolution things become more organized.

Microevolution, on the other hand, has some evidence and stuff.

I'm religious, but I never say that Evolution couldn't have happened because as far as I see it, God can do whatever he wants to

Also since I wasn't there at the beginning of time, I don't really care too much how we were created. Even if I wasn't religious, I probably still wouldn't care. "Whats done is done"

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"Let He who is without sin throweth the first rock", basically a stfu to all hardcore bible ppl goin to war with science.

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Thank you.

i hate how religion gets dragged into so much of todays things.

Most bible people don't. It's the other religions.