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|Removal of Unlicensed Release Links
|Due to recent events, I've decided to remove unlicensed release links. As much as this will disappoint some of you, my foremost goal is to keep this website online.
We have never hosted manga, but I would prefer to keep this site as far from the gray area as possible. It has always been my ambition to maintain an information site and not one specific to releases.
lambchopsil Edit: Musings from Kotonoha
|Posted by Manick on June 9th 1:03am
That's a little disappointing but it's understandable. Most of those links never worked for me, anyways. So long as this website remains online and I have access to my scanlation groups and their release info I'm good.
Well, that news didn't come to me as a surprise. It was going to eventually happen, especially with such a large community. It most likely plays a huge factor in why sales have lowered...
I personally don't feel any impact with the removal of links. Since I go to the sites myself for the links.
It is totally and completely understandable as to why such an action is necessary.
manick this means you need to alter the "add releases" page and make sure ppl go register the group with the site or no one will find the releases.
p.s. check admin panel i'll go post something there for you to read.
Read the article, and I'm sort of peeved that majority of the scanlators are getting wrongly labeled as "for-profit Web sites". 95% scanlators are doing this for free ): Albeit going against copyright of the original publisher and such. I wonder if it ever occurred to them that sales are dropping because of the economical fix we're in and people are just using said sites because they can't afford to buy the published books yet. Sad.
Seems to me like the Publishers can use this site to track down the scanalators
Anyway as long this site remains afloat, everything is fine for me at least
Personally, I think that it is because of the scanlated manga that allows the manga industry outside of Japan to get its business. I know for a fact that if it weren't for scanlated manga, I would have never grown to love manga the way I do now. Yea, it is illegal, but it also gives the manga publishers profit. By being able to see the goods for free creates the feeling of wanting to own the manga, at least for me. That, and people want to know what happens next. If only the publishers outside of Japan could keep up with the current releases, then everything would be ok....
a lot of BL gets licensed because of fan liking. outside of that, just look at Hetalia, Durarara (UK/crunchyroll), Giant Killing.
It's because of scanlators. It has been around since the 70s helping the industry grow. Take that away and criminalize your audience - Lose audience and fanbase. Remember that anime company that sued bittorrenters?
I read the article...really the companies are about to hurt themselves...I got more interested in manga because of finding it online...then would buy what they had avail in the US...I think they're sales dropped due to the economy and people spending less...
But it will probably be just like music...and they'll make a site like itunes for manga
It's not like I used the links anyway so it's all good.
Lol, same here... I never really used them, since I tend to visit scanlation groups' websites/IRC channels anyway.
Removing the links won't make me too disappointed. :3
If it's for the site, it's ok.
The removal of DL links is ok to me. I never knew we had them!
BUT recently, don't you think there has been too many incidents (kind of) like this? At first it was the google incident and now publishers threaten to file a lawsuit to scanlators!!
I wonder if our online manga community will last long...
Your prediction just might come true sooner than we think...I don't really care about the download links, but I think it's pretty unfair that there are so many more terrible criminal activities taking place via the internet, but people are so focused on as minor a crime as scanlation (and yeah, I acknowledge that it's illegal).
i next expect them to go after the scanlators. on the anime front, i expect the streaming sites to be closed and the fan subbers to be stopped.
The American industry needs to check Alexa ratings of one manga and manga fox. majority of traffic comes from overseas where we can't afford to pay $20 in shipping for a $10 manga volume that will take 1 year delay to get published and 2 months in ship to get to our hands or get lost en route.
I don't know about everyone else, but $10+ for a volume of manga even without shipping is an insult to me as a consumer. That $10 gets me maybe 20 minutes worth of reading time. I've far better ways to spend my money. And until the industry realizes that, competing with FREE just isn't going to work well.
It's been a very long time since I stopped using the links in MU and going directly to the source to get then, so this change does not effect me at all. I'm actually happy that MU is doing this, because this will help MU stay online (supposedly).
are you removing only links to the Scanlators site/download links or completely removing everything related to unlicensed releases.
Only those DL links, I think.
Just the DL links...if you noticed, the DL column in the release page is gone.
Links to the scanlator site/forum through their group page are still intact.
Tough times. Hope we'll last in a capacity as close to this as possible.
Good call, though I don't think it's gonna help you guys at all.
It was the same thing with torrents long ago. I think everything will be back to normal in a couple of months
To collect all my favorite scanlator groups IRC channels... is just a matter of time, until the whole scanlation issue will have to go underground
I don't quite get it. I don't know what you mean by removing unlicensed release links. Though I'm pretty much aware of what's happening around the manga world currently. Can someone please enlighten me?
This is fine if the scan group is in your database, but it's really going to be tough to track down some of these releases that aren't. Or those that don't have a site or IRC channel to release from. Sometimes those download links were the only way I had of tracking down a particular release. How are you going to verify if some of these releases are legitimate if you don't have a download link to check?
That's why we are not approving releases from now on for groups that are not in the database
I can understand why the links were removed. I know I'd be devastated if MU went offline forever.
I don't use the DL links anyways, so this isn't a problem for me. I use MU for the lists, the information, and the community. And even though the DL links are removed, you can easily google for them.
Either way, as long as MU is stays afloat, I'm happy.
wow i didn't know this was going on... is that why i can't connect to mangatraders, are am i the only one.
The site seems to be down, but I wouldn't jump to comclusions so fast.
*conclusions.... sry, hit the button too fast.
well if you say it's gray, then it's true...
you don't make a mistake, but we don't always know the mind of some people...
some of them see this community as something "threatening"...
it's a bit disappointing but for the sake of the site i guess it's a wise decision mmm...
As i see it. This move by publishers only force the community to return to old ways of scanlation, either by going to IRC or closed forums.
I think the one that would be targeted the first are the large sites and sites that produce the most money. They could try to attack scanlation sites first, but you know how this community works. If 1 was down 2 or 3 others will replace them in short time. And their struggle would be in vain.
As long as manga still attract readers, as long as they still make money, then these circle of lawsuit and scanlation will not end. The only way to stop manga scanlation is to stop publishing the manga altogether. lol.
The only thing the publishers lawyers would do first is to sue sites that gain the most profit from all these manga scanlation issue. oh btw, i think the first one to go down is onemanga( ranked 935 in google top 100 list).
I think the first one is mangatraders. It's already down since yesterday.
yeah first thought mangatraders was just gone because of there server issues but with this article going up almost the same time...starting to worry.
IMHO the main problem is that publishers think that every manga downloaded is a manga that could have been bought instead, causing them a loss. But, at least for me, there are definitely more manga that I bought after looking at the scans that manga that I wanted to but I didn't after looking at the scans. I read a lot of scan manga, but honestly I could survive even without them, if publishers hunt down scanlation sites they only diminish my chance to find something worthy to be bought.
And I understand mangaupdates position. I think what you chose it's the right thing to do.
Yeah I'm glad you've taken some sort of action. Removing the DL links is a move that doesn't really affect me anyway.
I do not like where this is heading though. Hopefully it's all just hot air and will cool down in a couple of months...hopefully.
i've read a few thousand mangas and the few i actually bought .. i didn't even read. only ones being kurogane vol 4+5 cause they weren't scanned at the time. and even them i reread when they were scanned. i'm a friggin computer junk and i hate paper. FCK PAPER FCK OFFLINE RELEASES MAKE THEM CHEAPER AND DIGITAL. if it wasn't for scanlations+fansubs, i wouldn't even read manga or watch anime. can't be arsed to buy shit to see it's utter shit i wasted money on. and what the fck, am i fcking bill gates? a volume of manga costs 9+ € in germany (and german translations suck d*ck). naruto 51 volumes. bleach 45 volumes. one piece 58 volumes. who the fck could afford something like this? even if you sell em after you read them. manga and manhwa cost something like 3 € per volume in korea/japan.. and average income between germany and japan shouldn't be that big..
same with the music industry. those publishing labels getting all the money, not going with the time and even when they do like years after, they do it with shit quality, shit copy protection and shit file formats so you can't play them the way you like it and all that for close to the same price as a regular cd? go fck yourself d*cks
now concerning the news. i really don't like the fact that anonymous scanlations aren't listed anymore. no release links? i couldn't care less. i get my dope through irc, forums, dedicated download pages as long as i know there's something new
yes i'm a cheap cussing turd with superfical knowledge that wants everything for free
Yea, if Manga world went digital and much cheaper, I couldn't hope for more. I reckon that's how scanlation would die off.
getting a bit ot but still.. katydid wrote in kotonohas commments: "but how are they ever going to justify printing anything more “exotic” if they can’t even turn a profit on something supposedly mainstream (e.g. the Shonen Jump titles) because everybody and their grandma already read it the same day it came out in Japan?" why won't jap publishers just license their manga blank the day it's released in jap so english publishers can dish out digital manga with the best translations and quality you could imagine the same day? user should be able to create an account and subscribe to certain channels for small appropriate bucks and get a reading flat for those manga. make it hard to rip for most people and you're good to go. mangastream+binktopia manage to release good quality scans the same day it's in the book store in jap. why shouldn't big publishers be able to do so too?
Huh? one volume costs like 6 euro here in Germany. not 9+.
I get what you mean but seriously I like having the actual book better than having only scans on the computer. Just my opinion. No offense. ^^
but you're right. bad german translations are usually around 6.50€. they're still shit. there're things, that sound good in german. vocals, poems and comics don't. they.are.shit.period
and collecting books prob feels better than some file archives on your computer, but seriously, books are no competition for scanlations. average scan is about as big as a din a4 paper or even bigger on my 19" tft. smalls ass pictures in din a5 books can't compare. the paper is usually yellowish or something while good scans have perfectly white backgrounds
This palce is like a Central Archive for manga, and such it should remain.
The hosting site's can be the libraries
I've only used those links to read the latest releases of Mangastream or to make contact with other groups to ask them something, so it wont affect me much
Honestly, I never liked DL links anyway. Maybe now people will start joining scanlation IRC's to help keep the community active, instead of just having hundreds of leechers using mediafire links.
This is just stupid, I really don't think MU is among those 30 sites that are targeted by publishers. You guys are just overreacting.
Oh well, I can live without DL links.
Better to be safe than sorry
I doubt that. Google "manga" and a link to MU is at #10.
Oh shit, Mangatraders has been down for several days. So, they are gone then?
To be honest, I'm glad if Mangatraders or any online reading/hosters sites are down and gone. Because for me, I see them as the reason why the scanlation world is being much exposed to public as they are now.
They attract more fans, true. But they also attract people who won't put more brains or extra effort to come and interact with the scanlators. Also, those sites 'created' some new groups who aimed for net fame instead of introducing new titles.
I see scanlating as a way to introducing unknown titles to public, especially the unwritten conduct that one will dropping the project once the title is licensed in the US. But what happened now is pretty much straying from that idea, with the speed scans and net fame scans. People wanted to have mangas in a free and easy way. Thus they prefer mangahosters and/or online reading sites where they can get their manga fix within one click. I know it's easier to bookmark/rss feed a site instead of bookmark/rss feed numerous groups (in case you're reading several titles from different groups).
Anyway, I see mangaupdates as the information center, so those publishers shouldn't be able to do much. If anything comes to worst. Try checking irc 101
I'm somewhat reluctant to try irc, but if needed I will go for it. I'm going to need to learn how to use it of course, at the moment I have a basic understanding of it. I do go to the website of those that translated the manga, but mangatraders just made it so simple it was awesome. I loved not having to go from website to website to get different mangas, and sometimes I'll find a manga here on Baka Updates that are either done quite some time ago or if it's still going on the earlier chapters were put out a long time ago. After a long period of time it's not uncommon for the website that scanned them to not have them up before, it has happened to me a few times, and it was during those times where mangatraders was so useful to me. If it's really gone then I'm going to be sad to see it go. Something that I REALLY don't like is when a website makes signing up and making posts a requirement to download manga. I don't have anything to say to the people in the forums nor do I feel like reading what they post, I just want to read the latest chapter of a manga I like. I'm not trying to be a dick, I am fully aware of the fact that scanlators are contributing their own time to get these translated into English for no money, and I greatly appreciate that, but I don't want to have to be forced to sign up and post to download a manga.
They aren't down, they're just having server problems.
is that just hope or theyre just really down temp? cause I m kinda worried >.<
I don't really care about DL links because I rarely use them. I agree with most of the commenters before me. It's because of these scanlators that we are able to read manga that god knows when it will be available in our country. And because of these scanlated manga, I came to love a lot of titles and eventually bought them even when it took several years for the publishers to release them.
But as we all know, the rest of the manga published in Japan will never be licensed, nor can they be found in Kinokuniya locally (if there's one in your country). I'm not going to learn how to read Japanese and spend a fortune to buy those manga. Am I not contributing anything to the anime/manga industry? I think so. After all, I'm a bad, ungrateful fan. (/sarcastic)
This is like a witch hunt. I hope that MU will not be affected.
It's not a witch hunt. Nobody "owes" you any manga in your language or in your country, and not being able to get something legally does not justify stealing it. The publishers are taking the action they think is necessary to protect their legitimate intellectual property. Whether it will work or not is a different question, but they are in the right and the "scanslators/aggregators" are definitely in the wrong.
I completely agree. It's laughable the pirates cry foul when they are the ones doing all the plundering.
Don't throw around absolutes like right or wrong, especially those based on "morals".
Since the dawn of Internet, which truly made culture global (and immortal), it's WRONG to deny anyone another country's culture [in 4D]. "We are the world..."
4D, as in time, i.e. I sure as hell wasn't gonna wait for my country to send the final season of Lost. (They still haven't begun.)
Internet also made spoilers global.
It's WRONG to call it stealing if "they" could, but have stopped or won't provide you with a legal way to obtain Item-X, especially since it's a "clone".
A) It's a duplicate - the quantity of Item-X does not decrease for said company.
B) Since no monetary exchange can be made, it's 100% impossible for them to lose any money because of it.
Shunning the Internet instead of embracing it? If they can't adapt to the times, they will perish, and RIGHTfully so. Survival of the Fittest.
hahahaaha talking about right and wrong in this way, that's laughable.
But seriously, most scanlators try to do projects/manga that are not yet translated in their language, groups which translate the popular manga are continuing the project from when it was dropped due to licensing. Yes this is illegal, however, it was the manga community who made the series popular in other languages. The worst part legally speaking is those who thry to make money off these scanlations, eg Tazmo.
"not being able to get something legally does not justify stealing it" that my friend is quite the moronic idea. If lets say you could not get food legally what can you do but "steal" it. But that is a bad comparison and mainly because in most cases nobody is stealing anything scanlating unlicensed manga is perfectly legal as nobody owns the right to publish the series in that language.
"The publishers are taking the action they think is necessary to protect their legitimate intellectual property." Yes so do many publishing companies hollywood included try to take down filesharing of movies and the like. The matter is quite simple: the out price themselves. The concept is simple, what upholds the law? it is not the police although they are the driving force behind the reason, quite simply it is the risk/reward ratio. In most cases the risk far outweighs the reward so most people wouldn't break the law, however, in this case like all internet piracy the risk is minimal and the reward is great often savings of $100s $1000s or even $10,000s compared to a negligible risk of being caught/prosecuted and fines of $10,000s to $100,000s tops.
Actually whether it will work is part of the question. how do you think they will fund the litigation? through their prices driving more people to the internet, and stopping fans who are willing to support their favourite authors from doing so.
Actually they are going about this completely the wrong way; they need a competing medium. Manga is free on the internet, But not for the scanlators who not only use a very large amount of their personal time scanlating but in many cases their own money as well.
Scanlating, contrary to publisher belief, supports the author, while admittedly not as much as each person buying their own book, where do you think the scans come from? the book, straight out of the book, and in most cases ruining the book in the process. There are many series that i read/have read that i would not buy, but my support of the scanlator by visiting their site would contribute to their advertising revenue however little and may even have allowed them to start a new series or buy a new book.
must be said i feel nothing about taking money from the fat wallets of publishing company CEO's and if you dont support the community why are you apart of it?
I think this is a good move.
The DL links are not important.
So long as MU remains, it's definitely worth sacrificing the links.
Well, for MU.. it's a smart moves to removed the links. It'll be bad if you guys been taken down too. On the other hand, this kind of things is not surprising. And doesn't really concern me. Coz most of the manga I read online, I also had the hard copy on my shelves. So... yeah ^^;
same thing about manga in Portugal
i read manga a lot but the thing is a volume of manga here costs about 11 euros (That's not certainly cheap
) and the prices stil go up because more and more ppl wanna read manga (want to buy manga they like to help publishers) but as it is right now, it is just beyond ridiculous.
As you said, manga in japan is around 3-4 euros (not even more than that) and so ppl just buy them the normal way (and it would certainly help my poor eyes if i could do that too) but the thing is: to order even just one volume of licenced manga from the US or any other part of the world is WAAAAY expensive and if it were not for sites like mangatraders or mangaupdates i wouldn't even know how good a manga series is (lets face it, most of the series are just cliched junk) and i would never have bothered buying it for real (even though the offer is just about 10 licenced popular series here - sad, i know...) and honestly, 11 euros! What do they do with so much money, where does it go?
If they seriously take down sites like mangafox (not that i ever used it before) or mangatraders (** I LOVE YOU GUYS !!! **) I wouldnt have spent around 100 euros buying licensed stuff (believe it or not only around 7 volumes of manga) to help with the whole thing (way oversized publishers who milk us out of our money like crazy) and honestly i dont even believe that has to do with anything anymore, they just want more.
My point being: i read a lot of manga, pretty much only unlicensed stuff (since i buy the licenced series - whether they are in english or french/spanish (OH, POOR ME!! THE LENGHTS I GO TO READ MANGA... - self pity kicking in) and if they do take legal action against manga related sites then the whole thing will only go downhill:
- manga readers will either leave the whole manga thing behind in hopes of seeing better days or
- the manga scanlators will stop caring about being licenced or not and release their things on closed forums or whatnot.
Either way, a great deal of people will only just stop reading it and stop buying the licensed volumes because there will be no real fans to buy an overpriced 1.4 cm wide A5 sized book; and honestly, no one will care enough to continue this ridiculous situation - as i believe it bears resemblance to other countries around the world. Life is just too expensive in order to do that so they will be just shooting themselves in the foot.
either way, i miss manga traders
sorry for the double post
forgot to say that i do go to the scanlator teams sites and comment to give out my thanks out to them and to chat a little. Scanlating stuff is hard work and they do deserve our appreciation - The reason everyone of us reads scanned manga is because of their effort after all
still, since i already am familiar with 5 languages i decided to learn jap - but its so damn hard!!
speaking stuff is pretty much ok. the writing stuff is miles away...
I support your decision and think it's the right one to make... For me, at least, B-U functions as an information resource, and there is NO other manga website capable of providing the breadth and depth of manga "intelligence" that B-U can. Lol. So to preserve that resource, a decision like this is not only justifiable, but absolutely correct!
Thank you for all your hard work!
I just wanted to add that it was a good idea. I really love MU and I don't want to see it go. I didn't even know about the DL link, but hopefully taking those down will help you guys.
First of all, I completely support the move of removing the DL links.
They were very comfortable (especially with groups who'd gone inactive),
but better be save than sorry.
In my opinion, a big part of the problem is the insistence of groups to work on licensed titles.
Originally, scanlations were meant to give manga fans the ability to read manga they couldn't read otherwise. But this has changed drastically. Now, every other licensed manga seems to be resumed by some group.
I perfectly understand the why American companies decided to take action, even though I think they should be doing a better job with the manga they license.
It's not like I don't want to read some of those licensed series, but at what cost?
Now legal bodies are pointing a magnifying glass on the whole community.
On the other hand, there're the Japanese publishers.
I'm sure they're getting much more money than if there weren't any scanlations.
But what can I say? It's their right...
Perhaps they joined forces in order to be able to target more server nations? I assume the Japanese companies want to target sites like mangahelpers that have a large amount of raws on them while not being hosted where they can easily target them.
I have too say if Manga Updates goes down, I would be in alot of trouble with my manga reading... Why? because its the only place I can get information on what just came out and whats new. Unless somebody knows of a back up one.
hey, I've a question:
Why did you delete links to manwha releases, when the news clearly says "japanese publishers" and manhwa, as you know, isn't japanese at all?
a lot of English publishers like tokyopop release Manhwa. This removal avoids trouble for mangaupdates - like Manick said, they want to keep this as far away from the grey area. I'd rather have manga info than releases. I choose what to read and buy depending on the info and the ratings and the reviews i see on mangaupdates
It was always MU's policy to not host links to the releases of licensed series. I'm talking about unlicensed manhwas.
Why remove the links to doujinshi series as well?
Only a small few are actually published outside of special events.
I think it's easier to just remove the column.
As long as the releases site isn't deleted I'll be happy.
If the publishers want our money, they should work on the quality of their translations, since fanmade ones are, in many cases, better (ditto for anime). Just look at the FAIL of DelRey with the first few Negima volumes.
rolling over for these jews before they even get you to TRY and stop you, nice. Manick wishes to be the little girl.
seems like a double-edged sword to me.
helps boost popularity, but at the same time, exploited.
While the removal of the download links certainly annoys me, since it makes me go to the lenghts of making more than 2 clicks, i think it was necesary.
I just hope mangaupdates gets by untouched, tho, since most of the tittles that i've found to like were found with the help of MU.
In fact i would go as far as saying that if MU were to fall my manga experience as it is now might come to an end entirely, and i would only be a casual reader that follows a couple of tittles like in the past.
Okay, I'm a little confused here. When you say removing the links, do you mean download links or the releases that are listed in the Releases section? I don't mind the removal of download links, as I never used them anyway, but I'd be a little disappointed if it was never stated that any unlicensed series was ever updated. Can someone clarify?
Only download links.
Thanks. I was worried for a moment there.
I hated the way publishers think. They must be blind or really stupid to fight against scanlators.
They must support scanlation groups. I would never know and love manga or anime if it weren't scanlation groups in the first place.
It isn’t reasonable for an international reader to prefer their product.
1. In my country there is not a manga/anime market where I can buy for a reasonable price.
2. So it is really unconvenient for me to buy $10 manga and ship it here for $50 or more. Though, I bought some great manga volumes BUT after I read their SCANLATIONS.
3. The release time of licensed mangas are painfully long. You should wait for months for the next volume.
4. They abrubtly decide to drop the series with a high hand.
I think our internet freedom is being laid sieged gradually by some dark hands of the system. In my country now we are under the blackout of accessing google, youtube and some others. Can you believe it? In this time and era!?
I haven't seen anyone address the real issue, though. It seems as though the publishers are mainly targeting the aggregator sites, not the actual scanlators themselves. From what I've read over the net, it would seem that the publishers consider the scanlators to be a "necessary evil" to see what would give them profit by the popularity. But they consider the aggregators to be the ones that don't "follow the rules." For example this
shows that the main reason why the publishers have started taking actions is because their sales have started dropping. However, isn't the recent bad economy the reason behind the lowered sales? Sure, the free manga online might be a small reason, but some people use the aggregators because the have no other alternative.
Any thoughts, anyone?
That's what it seems to me. This might be an interesting read
(It's down now but what the articles says is that not all publishers think that scanlation is bad).
What I'm curious about is why the coalition doesn't seem concern with chinese sites that function similarly as manga aggregators. They might be of chinese scans of manga from Japan but they're still licensed property and they have an even more notorious ads in those sites. Don't you wonder what the coalition's stand on this is?
I am fine with them shutting down things that are already coming to the U.S and other places such as all those Shounen Jump series, but they'd better not touch the ones that aren't. The only way we are getting the great unpopular series that are never going to make it out of Japan is from scanlation... If they are going to shut down scanlation then they should do their job and actually try to translate some other series besides Naruto, and Bleach, and crap like that and focus on some other series otherwise, they are going to be taking away things and leaving fans unhappy.
I see this recent "movement" is already starting to affect online manga sites.http://manga.animea.net/
has removed all their manga...
American publishers just can't adapt their business model fast enough for changing times.
Some people patronize scanlations because of the unprecedented and unmatched quick release and wide distribution.
Also, some scanlators even offer superior translations than official english releases with their TL notes and stay-true-to-the-meaning content. For example, I'm disappointed by the whitewashing of Hiruma's cursing in Eyeshield 21 in the english release. Seems AMERICAN publishers are scared-shitless from parental censorship if they stayed true to the meaning. Also, Japanese is a colorful language, meaning one sentence can be translated differently and scanlators put this in TL notes which is absent in english releases.
This so-called piracy scapegoat is just American publishers being unable to fulfill a consumer need. Scanlators were borne long before paysites emerged. Maybe its time to change the publisher's model. For one thing, they can appoint some superior scanlators to be the official online release and distributor and rack up revenues from the ads then they can just release a colored collectors version on print. Frankly, I buy manga only if I like it until its end. It sucks to be stuck with a manga that started off as good then, over time, became bad with a crappy ending and there are many of them out there.
This witchhunt will not stop with just one manga.