Oh, yes, on the question of morality.

'Good' is subjective, insofar as morality stemming from humanity. It doesn't matter whether a human is considered 'good' or not, because without a God or similar being that hands down moral imperatives, there's no reason to follow any other person's morality.

If there isn't something above humans that says 'this is good,' then there is no good, there's only efficiency. A mass-murderer's 'good' is the same as a saint's 'good' because morality would only be a useless human construct. In that situation, nobody can claim with any logic any sort of moral authority, so 'morality' doesn't really exist because there's no reason for it to exist.

And I think I just repeated myself like ten times there.

For those of you who say 'good is subjective, so God doesn't exist...' or something of the sort(I apologize, I've been skimming), you're using circular logic. If God exists, good is NOT subjective. If good is subjective, God does not exist, but the only way you can say good is subjective is if God doesn't exist. God is the cause, not the result.

actually that is not such a stupid reason as you think because if people saw the so called "miracles" of god, wouldnt people submit to him? BUT there are still a number of religions that is almost as believable as Catholicism.

"to err is human, to blame it on something else is even more so"
we have been mistaking this presence we feel as god, we believe in him just because in miracels. Are we that shallow? but we also believe that the good of something is what god wants

someones good may be someones wrong doing.

for example:

if a person steals a car, the owner of the car would think that person is doing something wrong. but the thief of the car only believes that he could save his life by stealing the car of the owner. "God" thinks otherwise.

Im not saying that i dont believe in god but it is something that is also not able to be explained. so is the big bang, the big bang is unexplainable. that is why there is a deadlock with science and religion

believe in what you must, but make sure it is the right choice for you.

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Remeber kids

Hope is the worst evil of all, for it prolongs the torment of man.

to Lukannon:


Galileo Galilei was not burned at the stake. He admitted to the pope that he was wrong and was punished to house arrest for the rest of his life.
The mass murder was the Holy Crusade. In the name of God, they fought and killed.


Morality does have a reason to exist. Everything have a reason to exist. Morality keeps people from trouble. For example, you should not go on the street and kill people. Because soon, these people will come and kill you. Right? these morality rule keeps our society together. That's what separates us from barbarians and animals.

Keep to the topic of God. Morality issue has been created on another board. Unless you want this board to be locked, stop going off topic.
Your sophistical talk will not affect me. All that logic is faulty.


here's the link to morality http://www.mangaupdates.com/showtopic.php?tid=973

Last edited by ares6 at 10:51 am, Jun 30 2007

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Life, what would it be without so much wrongs and rights?


Star Trek XI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZiR-NETDr0

Wow, I can't believe someone resurrected this topic. It's fascinating how many people claim to understand in completeness what God is. I'm afraid I'm not so knowledgeable to make such a claim. I just have to ask the many people that make the claim that God for sure doesn't exist b/c of .... such and such, are you sure your not making some assumption about God? Like a good researcher or investigator did you get both sides of the story. Have you looked at each side without involving some kind of bias? If your looking for God I'll tell you where you can find him. He's in the hospitals healing the people that others gave up on, He's in third world countries distributing food for starving kids, he's in the churches teaching that there is a better way than what the world teaches, He's in the courtrooms defending an innocent man from getting the death sentence, he lives in the people that invite them into their hearts. God is very real, and if you are certain that he doesn't exist you have my sympathy for missing out on the greatest love this world has ever seen.

i answered yes. but i dont think it's the same way everyone else really thinks. i have a deist point of view, so i only believe in the existence of a godlike diety that created the universe. its not a religion, so no worshipping, no devoting my life to god or existence of a heaven and hell. and the only reason i believe this is because there's no proven solution to how the universe was made. for me, i'd rather not take a religious standpoint and just see how things turn out. if a religion happens to turn out to be real, hey, thats really nice, but for now, i'd rather concentrate on having the time of my life right now while i'm still living.

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Catholicism =/= the whole of Christianity. Why should God have to show himself via miracles to force people to believe him? If there are, say, 10 options, and only one of them is right, but you won't know which one is right until you choose your option, can you say 'none of them are right because there's always people choosing the other one?'



...What? I'm sorry, I'm not quite getting your point here.



How can you claim to know what 'God' thinks? You're equating his capacities with your own. Unless we're referring to a vague, general 'deity' type figure.

Anyway. Nobody really knows what God would think about something like that, but afaik, it's generally agreed that you pick the lesser of two evils. Would the thief necessarily be 'right?' Who knows? If the thief absolutely needed a car in order to escape death, unless he was like a fugitive criminal or something, I'd say why not, but that's me.

Morality's not all cut and dried.



Well, who knows what science can prove? It's an ever-changing institution, so I don't feel that it can disprove or prove something beyond all doubt.



See, that's my problem. But my angst doesn't have anything to do with this.



I had thought the way I worded my statement made it clear that I admitted there was a strong possibility that I was wrong. And that it didn't really matter.



Human institutions do not dictate the will of God. The Crusade was a disgusting chapter of human history and it does show that in the end, no matter what the message, the Church is at heart a human construct just like any other organization. What of it? Does that somehow undermine the Bible's teachings, that the 'disciples' misinterpreted/misrepresented it for their own gain?

'In the name of God' does not mean 'with the blessing of God.'



I'll be countering your post in the appropriate topic, then. Thank you for the link.

To Lukannon: I never said God told them to do so. I said they fought in the name of God. What does that mean, you ask? It means they are fighting for what they believed to be "Honorable". The holy crusade was fought in the name of God. That's all I said. It's true. Religious fanatics in the middle east still do that.

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Life, what would it be without so much wrongs and rights?


Star Trek XI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZiR-NETDr0

I believe in the existence of God due to the environment I grew up in as a child.

I can not prove his existence because of my ignorance.

Last year, I attended a lecture about the correlation between praying to God and speaking in tongue and the activity of the human brain.

Everyone - believers and non-believers - will be surprised to see the results.

I don't feel like explaining everything because it was approximately a two hour lecture.

Try searching for it online. The professors may have posted somewhere.

born and raised atheist so definately no, but that doesn't mean I believe in science either I really don't care about how life begin, what happens after death or who created the universe, none of those things affect the way I lead my life.

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There are only 10 kinds of people.

Those who know binary and those who don't.

I'm sorry you feel that way man. Believe me if you let God into your life, he'll definitely make an impact.

not so sure buddy i'm actually really content with how I am, I don't see how praying and spending my sundays in church can improve things, anyways I really don't want to get into the whole argument I'll just leave it at that.

ps: I made a spelling mistake in my last post I meant 'began' although you probably knew that, for some reason spelling mistakes just irk me.........

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There are only 10 kinds of people.

Those who know binary and those who don't.

there is absolutely NO god.
i was born as a "half" (cristian-jewish) and got a bit of both, but since i moved to israel at age 5, i got a load of jewish teachings.
a kid raised like that will definately get confused, and when my ex-best-gay-guy-friend asked me "do you belive in god" my answer was "hell no!".
considering the fact that this guy was, and is the manager of the biggest ethaistic website in the middle east, i easily got dragged after him even further than i was...

well thats my story

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I'm not sure if there is a God, or if there isn't. My answer was 'maybe'. But when I do pray and I want to have faith in someone, I look to God. I think God is a nice thing for people to believe in, he gives you hope and faith when sometimes others don't. He's there to always listen to your troubles, and he will always forgive you. When someone I know is not sure if God exists or not, I will tell them believe. That way they know someone is there for them. It's also another reason I don't really like to talk that much about this, because there will always be someone who doesn't believe, and I don't want them to affect those who do.

But alas, everyone believes what they want. I don't see why some people don't want there to be a God. I mean, he's not bad or anything. He's just someone there to help. I think of him as how children believe in Santa Claus. And once you find out he isn't real, you become depressed. Which is why I look down on people like the post before who say 'there is absolutely NO god.' or who say 'hell no!' etc. That's what they believe, and they are just stating their beliefs, I just hope people who do believe don't lose faith.

Also, I don't really like church. But I do pray to God sometimes. No offense, but church really does bore me. I do like learning about God, but I'd rather not sit for an hour listening to someone preach about him. I like to learn on my own. I hope my post doesn't offend anyone, and I'm sorry if it does.

Church bores me too.

Look........stop trying to convert people. He can be atheist all his life if he wish to....

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Life, what would it be without so much wrongs and rights?


Star Trek XI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZiR-NETDr0