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Should we be Paying drug addicts...

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Is it wrong to pay drug addicts to be sterilized?
Yes
No
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mattai
Post #381958 - Reply to (#381950) by mewnbrite
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1:52 am, May 29 2010
Posts: 613


Quote from mewnbrite
What the hell?!

No one should be sterilized. mad

And it's wrong to give anyone the right to decide
who should be mistreated like that.
Damn. no


Lots of people should be sterilized. No one should be forced into getting sterilized though. And no one is. The idea is to offer drug addicts an incentive to not have children, since there's a much higher chance of them not having the means/will to raise them properly.

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CompactRobot
Post #381961 - Reply to (#381950) by mewnbrite
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2:01 am, May 29 2010
Posts: 25


Quote from mewnbrite
What the hell?!

No one should be sterilized. mad

And it's wrong to give anyone the right to decide
who should be mistreated like that.
Damn. no

i agree with u about how noone should be sterilized but it's their decision to do what they want with their body and if they choose to do it then they choose to live with that decision

StarlightDreams
Post #381964
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2:08 am, May 29 2010
Posts: 3891


Paying for them to get effective rehab should be done instead.
O_O

Actually.
Not paying.
Just making rehab free should be good enough.

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Mochileiro
Post #381969
Member

2:27 am, May 29 2010
Posts: 25


Hummm.. I believe it is wrong to force someone to be sterilized but i may not be against a program to ,free of charge, sterilize someone who wants.

But i'll not accept an program to sterilize by force drug addicts. The reason is that drug addict is not an genetic desease, it is a type of mind desease, so it will change nothing to sterilize the drug addicted of today.

Ps: sorry for the english, but i´m not with patience to correct all my errors right now... bigrazz

westsiders2
Post #382022 - Reply to (#381969) by Mochileiro
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10:16 am, May 29 2010
Posts: 732


Quote from Mochileiro
Hummm.. I believe it is wrong to force someone to be sterilized but i may not be against a program to ,free of charge, sterilize someone who wants.

But i'll not accept an program to sterilize by force drug addicts. The reason is that drug addict is not an genetic desease, it is a type of mind desease, so it will change nothing to sterilize the drug addicted of today.

Ps: sorry for the english, but i´m not with patience to correct all my errors right now... bigrazz


what the hell are you talking about?
let me make this clear, NO ONE IS BEING FORCED TO BE STERILIZED!
______
Am on the fence on this one, cause the are so many children who end up being neglected, starved and abused cause their parent are addicted to some sort of substance weather it is alcohol or heroin. This doesn't mean every one of those children will end up like their parents, it's just that the chances are high.

in a way it is taking advantage of addicts weakness, which is drugs; after all if some of them are willing to kill and steal to get drugs, What is to stop them from making a haste decision of being sterilized? it just seems like your supporting their addict by paying them. some children are born already messed up cause their mother was taking drugs whilst she was pregnant. it just seems to be a well balanced argument. you could be preventing cause preventing is better than cure but the whole point of being an addict is that you have given up you right to choose to the drugs.


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wotonito
Post #383372
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7:37 am, Jun 5 2010
Posts: 408


you guys are all acting like theyre being forced.... they have a choice. id say everything im thinking if it wouldnt cause this post to be deleted.

its their choice, if they take the money they obviously would be bad parents anyway.

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Identity Crisis
Post #383378
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Ever the optimist
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8:58 am, Jun 5 2010
Posts: 4881


It's their choice, no one is being forced as of yet, so why not?

As a note, we don't know how they would end up treating their children if they were to get pregnant, for all we know they could end up very good parents, even if all YOU have seen are bad cases, doesn't mean they all are.

Either way, again, it's their choice what they do, who am I to say otherwise?

westsiders2
Post #389644 - Reply to (#383378) by Identity Crisis
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3:03 pm, Jul 3 2010
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Quote from Identity Crisis
It's their choice, no one is being forced as of yet, so why not?

As a note, we don't know how they would end up treating their children if they were to get pregnant, for all we know they could end up very good parents, even if all YOU have seen are bad cases, doesn't mean they all are.

Either way, again, it's their choice what they do, who am I to say otherwise?


i agree it is their choice what they do but you do get a say, cause some of this programs are supported by the taxpayers money.

also though it is their choice, isn't the whole point of being an addict not being able to make rational decisions and giving your up your ability to choose (free will) to the substance the you consume.
am on the fence on this one because most of the people that will sign up will probably do it for the money to get more drugs.

basically what i am saying is that a person who isn't capable of making a rational decision should be allowed to make a decision, but you can't ignore the fact that it could prevent potential problems in the future, but this is also a problem cause you can't see the future.

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Revi_Malsaneta
Post #389664
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4:40 pm, Jul 3 2010
Posts: 158


Ha. You know? Deep inside, I'm totally all for forced sterilization - for people who carry serious genetic illnesses. It's not something I'd ever fight for, but it's something that I think might be a good idea.
But who cares about drug addicts? Drug addiction isn't really genetic, and those idiots usually die young anyway.

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Maxlurifax
Post #389717
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10:01 pm, Jul 3 2010
Posts: 140


You know in Sweden, in order to preserve our "racial hygene" we forcefully sterilized people who were poor and were diagnosed with some condition like Sinneslö "Slow of mind" or Arbetskygg "Shy of work" as late as the 1970s.

Nobody seemed to mind us since we diden't loose any wars roll

Quote from Revi_Malsaneta
Ha. You know? Deep inside, I'm totally all for forced sterilization - for people who carry serious genetic illnesses. It's not something I'd ever fight for, but it's something that I think might be a good idea.
But who cares about drug addicts? Drug addiction isn't really genetic, and those idiots usually die young anyway.


Even if its not genetic, theres still the social part. A kid is probably not gonna go to oxford if his dad works in a mine, drinks all evening and beats his wife some afterwards.

Same thing applies the the child of an addict, he is probably more inclined to become an addict himself or just in general have problems in life due to the lack of good parenting.


Last edited by lambchopsil at 10:12 pm, Jul 3

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Gany
Post #390041 - Reply to (#389664) by Revi_Malsaneta
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7:15 pm, Jul 5 2010
Posts: 165


Quote from Revi_Malsaneta
Ha. You know? Deep inside, I'm totally all for forced sterilization - for people who carry serious genetic illnesses. It's not something I'd ever fight for, but it's something that I think might be a good idea.
But who cares about drug addicts? Drug addiction isn't really genetic, and those idiots usually die young anyway.


Well, well an eugenist? Those idiots as you say may not have had the luck that you have now.

And who will be supposed to "choose" who is sterilized and who is not confused

That's grotesque.

Quote from Maxlurifax
Even if its not genetic, theres still the social part. A kid is probably not gonna go to oxford if his dad works in a mine, drinks all evening and beats his wife some afterwards.

Same thing applies the the child of an addict, he is probably more inclined to become an addict himself or just in general have problems in life due to the lack of good parenting.


You generalise way too much. I agree that a child with drug addicts as parents hasn't started well in life but nothing is written. It takes a stronger mind to get through this, but most people can. Secondly drinking and beating women is not especially encountered in the workers' population, that guy from Oxford can do that much as well as well as much worse.

You cannot decide for others but you can help them. And sterilisation for money is not a bright idea.

Last edited by Gany at 7:25 pm, Jul 5

Ghaz
Post #398176
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8:31 am, Aug 9 2010
Posts: 160


No way. I would not have been born if that was going on! (yes my mom is clean and sober...since she was pregnant with me, so 21 years). Everyone in life is addicted to something, from crack to television. lol, I'd be more comfortable if we sterilized everyone who watched T.V, ate McDonald's and bought the new iPhone. laugh

Drug addicts can change their life around, if they really want to. My mom used to sell drugs to pay for rent, and used them because she had a shitty childhood. She is now happily in a relationship of 12 years or something with a great guy/provider, went to school for computer programming, then became a stay at home mom for 3 young healthy kids.....and one loser, burnt out, bastard child son! biggrin

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ayashe
Post #398184
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9:31 am, Aug 9 2010
Posts: 196


Uh, excuse me, everyone is saying no, that it's a rights violation, and that people shouldn't have their choices taken away from them, then you are saying "no we shouldn't let people be paid to be sterilized" and "no one should be sterilized'! Aren't YOU taking choices away from people, and deciding things for others? If you don't support a persons decision to be sterilized, you don't support a woman getting her tubes tied, or a man getting a vasectomy, because they're the same thing. That means you do not support a persons choice not to have children. And everyone is saying this is totalitarian?!

Quote
No way. I would not have been born if that was going on! (yes my mom is clean and sober...since she was pregnant with me, so 21 years). Everyone in life is addicted to something, from crack to television. lol, I'd be more comfortable if we sterilized everyone who watched T.V, ate McDonald's and bought the new iPhone.


No, that's like saying because abortion exists I wouldn't have been born because it exists. No one is suggesting forcing anyone to be sterilized. Unless you know 100% that your mother would have decided to sterilize herself you can't say you wouldn't have been born.

As for this, yes and no. Yes, I completely support drug addicts and anyone else who chooses to be sterilized. I do not support paying them. I do however support a general cash incentive for all people who chose not to procreate, like the people who do get in their tax return. Most people should not have children, not just certain groups, all humans. It's an extremely selfish thing to do, the whole idea of it. "I want to have children" or it just happens. "I want to have a child." They don't bother to consider what the opinion of their future child might, or what their life will be like. Even when they do think about it, it's still within the terms of themselves. People need to think about the big picture more, and make the responsible choice for them and whatever future offspring they may or may not have. Oh, but people do? Look at the state of the world, and how humans act. They do not, and never have.

Quote
You generalise way too much. I agree that a child with drug addicts as parents hasn't started well in life but nothing is written. It takes a stronger mind to get through this, but most people can. Secondly drinking and beating women is not especially encountered in the workers' population, that guy from Oxford can do that much as well as well as much worse.


Isn't that hypocritical?

Quote
But who cares about drug addicts? Drug addiction isn't really genetic, and those idiots usually die young anyway.


I don't know about that, drug addiction itself might not be, but some people can be more predisposed to addiction than others. And even if they do die young, many still manage to pop out a few kids beforehand.

Last edited by ayashe at 9:42 am, Aug 9

Ghaz
Post #398191 - Reply to (#398184) by ayashe
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10:57 am, Aug 9 2010
Posts: 160


Quote from ayashe
Uh, excuse me, everyone is saying no, that it's a rights violation, and that people shouldn't have their choices taken away from them, then you are saying "no we shouldn't let people be paid to be sterilized" and "no one should be sterilized'! Aren't YOU taking choices away from people, and deciding things for others? If you don't support a persons decision to be sterilized, you don't support a woman getting her tubes tied, or a man getting a vasectomy, because they're the same thing. That means you do not support a persons choice not to have children. And everyone is saying this is totalitarian?!

Not trying to argue, but isn't offering money to a drug addict like offering cyanide to a suicidal person? The sad thing is the majority of drug addicts would take the money and get sterilized, not regretting it until they became sober and unable to have kids. Where would their freedom of choice to have (or don't have) children be now? Because they couldn't resist the temptation of the next hit they can no longer have the choice to bear kids.

So no paying junkies to get sterilized is not like a normal average man/woman getting their vasectomy/ tubes tied. A junkie has a certain mindset, getting high, and is likely to make poor decisions, based around getting high. A normal person doesn't have the mindset of a drug addict and as such are more capable of making sound and logical decisions.

It's like this; steal and scrape money together to try and get a fix or get sterilized and have a sure thing. It's the equivalent of giving a starving man a choice to eat poisoned bread or no bread. Sure he has a choice....but they both still fuck him over.

Last edited by Ghaz at 11:59 am, Aug 9

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Gany
Post #451318 - Reply to (#398184) by ayashe
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6:31 pm, Mar 4 2011
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Quote
Most people should not have children, not just certain groups, all humans. It's an extremely selfish thing to do, the whole idea of it. "I want to have children" or it just happens. "I want to have a child." They don't bother to consider what the opinion of their future child might, or what their life will be like. Even when they do think about it, it's still within the terms of themselves. People need to think about the big picture more, and make the responsible choice for them and whatever future offspring they may or may not have.


Yeah, sure most people should not have children huh? Unless you want our species to die, you should revise this (even though we aren't exactly threatened by extinction). As to considering what a "potential" child would want, that's just hilarious. I agree that some people are not exactly fit to have children and some others do not look "at the big picture" as you mentioned very well, however unless they are underage, that's still "their" lives and they should live them as they desire. There is already too much control on people and I wouldn't want to hear anyone telling me that I'm unfit for children because I'm this or not that.

Quote
You generalise way too much. I agree that a child with drug addicts as parents hasn't started well in life but nothing is written. It takes a stronger mind to get through this, but most people can. Secondly drinking and beating women is not especially encountered in the workers' population, that guy from Oxford can do that much as well as well as much worse.


Quote
Isn't that hypocritical?


Touché. Let's say I believe a majority of them can go through this ordeal with or without help.

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