I just got done checking on some of the newest comments/ ratings for Naruto bringing it down now lower and/or on par with Bleach which is just a damn silly shame. I've said many times o this board that the manga community has become obsessed with hating success because their once proud little community has now become a movement and it means they have to step out of the shadows. It's a popular form of haterism..much like how people dislike a TV show in it's second season like Soparnos or Grey's Anatomy because it's no longer underground..it's now a hit and everyone watches it. Or how minorities living in particular areas start to hate those who are successful and stretching outside of their community.

It's crazy how many either young, uninformed or just plain angry people feel the need to blast Naruto when it's success cannot be denied (we're talking a multibillion dollar franchise in the US alone..no other manga comes close to that not even DBZ at its' height) and when it's current storyline is really catching fire. I content that this is just lies from people who hate success and have to share their nerd fantasies with the cooler kids who now love manga (which should be a reason for everyone on this site to be excited--we were right..Manga rocks and now more people are getting it).

Naruto is only Shonen Manga in recent years to successfully balance many characters; to have DEATH (sad that One Piece ranks higher than Naruto on this board and it's the most juvenile silly comicbook since Xmen); to feature prominently the theme that sometimes destiny is in control and nothing we do can change that...these are powerful themes that make Naruto a masterpiece and yet some of the so-called scholars on here attack it with baseless claims.

I have a simple question for all the haters-- what manga DO you like? If Naruto is soooo bad..what do you compare it against? I've asked this before and get nothing but for example..let's take the three most recent Naruto haters out there:

kiumi, p0I3r and fearless1 all ranked Naruto a '1' which seems pretty suspicious (do you all know each other) and likewise let's look at their personal profiles. While most of them don't list any manga they do actually like --our homeboy p0I3r indicates on his profile that he likes comedy, ecchi and romance..which brings me to then why the hell r u commenting on naruto What possible interest did you have in Naruto in the 1st place if you like porn manga? were u looking for that and realized it didn't have it? And then has the nerve to side with HxH-- a truly abominable manga where there is no ecchi..and the comedy is in the horrible artwork and fact that the mangaka cannot even keep a schedule for a few months at a time. Seriously people...is there any hater who can actually be mature and point to some true shonen manga BETTER than Naruto?

I'm neither a hater or a full blown obsess case like you are I think Naruto is a good to great manga. Masterpiece, no, but it does keep me entertained when I read it, even if it has the occasional slow spot. I agree that there will be haters that appear whenever something goes mainstream, but then we get the obsessives too that balance them out. Personally I feel Naruto is about on par with Bleach, as for what is better, recently nothing really pops to mind but I've been reading older manga lately since it's cheaper for me to buy.

Attacking HxH's Mangaka was low though. Sure he's having trouble keeping a schedule, but then again he's been sick, and knowing the general work ethic of the Japanese people as a whole it must be something pretty severe to stop his work. If you're going to sink as low as attack the infirm, then you're really no better the the folks that are hating on your precious Naruto.

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Let's ask this, how old are you and when did you start reading Naruto? Since you only read a handfull of manga series don't you think that your fanboy activity is a bit onesided? Compare your list to mine: http://www.mangaupdates.com/mylist.html?id=8744&list=rea d

Not obsessed (I don't wear naruto clothes nor even watch the anime...I just like the book) and if you're not hating on Naruto..rating it a silly one or something with the commentary that "it used to be good and now just sucks" then you're not who I'm talking to. I've noticed that many fans get all whiny when I attack the people who are ruthlessly hating on the manga and the legions of fans of this manga for simply it's popularity. My point has always been..if u have something truly critical to say..then say it..true fans discuss good and bad but when u come on with a sophmoric response..and u get handled than they want to whine about being attacked. What real world do you live in where you can talk smack and not get any given back at you?

As for the Bleach comment..who has died in Bleach? The story in Bleach has advanced how? Ichigo is now what?? I mean I truly do not understand...how someone can make a comment like that and not be chided for being either a hater or just ignorant. Bleach?? Seriously? You mean the DBZ like manga where characters get half sliced to death and THEN miraculously power up to defeat the bad guy...you mean THAT manga? And you're comparing it to Naruto? I mean it's comments like that where even the most critical Naruto fan just cannot take you and your comments seriously. You could say that Bleach entertains you on par with naruto which is weird but is truly an opinion but to say they're the same is my contention all along..people are making critical judgements who do not posses the ability to or are hating on Naruto for its' success.

HxH..is fact. Do you know he's ill? Even the Japanese don't know. He's stated illness, he's stated creative differences..I mean the mangaka has given many reasons over the years so I'm not sure why u're defending his lateness or his artwork. both are true..those are not opinion...the guy rarely draws backgrounds so it's not opinion to say his art sucks..it sucks. But regardless..I stand by what I say since I never hear true critical analysis of Naruto...if One Piece or HxH were big in America and Naruto wasn't..the vast majority of the nerd fiefdom would be 'obsessives over Naruto and discussing how amazing it is' The bottom line is that Naruto was one of the most scanlated products before it broke big in America and was beloved by just about all anime/ manga fans at anime shows in the US back in early 2000--when it became a phenomenon..the hating began and again with sophisticated retorts like..it's just not good anymore..then it's easy to see why fans like me become highly agitated at the waste of talent fans who should be celebrating naruto's success spend in deriding it. I hate it when I see women do it to women. I hate it when I see minorities do it to other minorities and I absolutely despite it when I see ignorant commentary against Naruto by supposed fans of the genre. If you can't appreciate the ability to atleast qualify your dislike then don't get upset when u get ragged on for it.

Edit by mod: Do not double post!


LOL..1st of all young man.. I'm pretty old. Well into my 30's and I started Naruto in early 2000's..I find it a great series that has done something rare in manga..from volume one Kishimoto actually told a story. He didn't do silly ass arcs like daily life arc in katekyo reborn or even getting to know character arcs like Rurouni Kenshin (a superb manga in its own right) no..he actually knew who sasuke was, what naruto's destiny was and so on and you can see that when u actually READ the book. I find it hilarious that fans comment on naruto powering up and yet these same 'scholars' support Bleach The best is that then they flip the argument and suggest that he is too underpowered because from the get go JKishimoto did somehting interesting..he forced an actual philosophy of technique into the world so that all battles had to function via wills and strategy and not the DBZ, One Piece, Bleach model..all of which are highly overrated by many of the same posters who lamely criticize Naruto..if someone cannot see the artistry in that..then they clearly do not have the same values as most people who critique entetainment fiction..growth, tragedy, and logic are key aspects of any good fiction and sadly the one popular property that actually practices that gets lambasted because again..I believe some of the fans simply are too immature to appreciate it or simply hate on it because of its' success.

So please get it right when attempting to brand me one-sided..it's one-sided to criticize something and not atleast attempt to preface it with the thought process that went into it. When you do that son..it's called Prejudice..not opinion.

As for your list..you have a lot of time on your hands truly..but you clearly read in my opinion a nice cross section of manga. 21st Century Boys is a masterpiece imo (we could spend hours talking about it and I am glad u read Monster as well am doing so via US releases) as for shonen..I like most of what you have ..Yakitate repetitive but fun, in fact I find most of your shonen repetitive storywise ... To Love Mr Fullswin, Mx0 atleast for now...but anyways..not sure what your point was but you have a well read list imo which only merits this question..what do you REALLY think of Naruto?? Is it a 1 out of ten? do you hate it? find it boring? How do you rate it against Bleach and One Piece on your list??

How old r u? U have alot of manga on your list..which is great..I wish I had the sort of time you do to read all of that but I definitely would like to read some of the ones u list like blaster knuckle which is one of the few to feature a brother as the lead.


Last edited by Stealth at 12:49 pm, Nov 18 2007

Honestly i dont hate naruto, i actulll dl it every time it out to read it, but really it good but your saying like its one of the greats and how its huge in america. Its no that great so dont get your panties in a knot. Naruto in america sucks, abosolutely and completely sucks. Watch the dubbed episode and you will cry. They ruined the series; no let me rephrase that, they killed it. You doign this big cry fest when how they hell can you go agianst others opinions, you cna disaggree, but wth are you going to do about it? start a thread? that doesnt doo much, all it shows is that you are hating on poepl at are hating on sumthing else? petty? everyone can see you point of view, but that doesnt make it right. Dont diss other manga either, like comon. are we goign back to grade school? 4 square? swings? throwing rocks? like really let me see you become a mangaka and do it and keep a series going. You proably couldnt but you might think you can(but dont kidd yourself). Like obv people are goign to hate as soon as it become main stream, but that happens with everything so dont go complianing on how you think it shouldnt be like that. godd i wanna swearrr soo badd. Plus anyoen who reads this will look at how bias you seem towards naruto, going all indepth about it. You realized its success is based on liek 10 year olds just wanting too see some fighting. Why do you think everyone watched dbz( i sure the hell did, and i jsut started watchign again). Bleach and One Piece are fine. god wonder why in the populrity rankings they are up there with naruto? cause, agian, children look for fighting on tv. thats a simple cocept, and there are OP and bleach haters out there too going after them they same way you are. all mangas have flaws and the ones with the least flaws(or the most fighting) succeed. Naruto has its flaws like how angst controlls the story(emo?). naruto with findign his place and his will to protect and get hurt and save sasuke withall his whingin. Sasuke even thought hes liek my fav character is liek the mostt emooooo manga charter int eh story. like really why doesnt JK jus put scars on thier wrists allready. All joking aside naruto is a great series but complain likethis does it no justice.

but on a flaming note wtf is a 30+ year old man whining about a series that is meant for the YOUNG when you are OLD. like in all realityy arent you abit to old for this? liek i can understand university and when you in your 20's, but comon well into your 30's? need a wife or liek a life perhaps maybe even a few cats Like do you have too much timee or can you like not get out of your chair? you spent like an singifcant amount of timefor you rant. instead of doign that why dont you just rewatch your beloved series and ignore it like a real adult woulda done by now.

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sorry about typos im kinda doing homeworkk and im not spelling cheaking it at all or leik gunna attmept to delete nething and redo parts.

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Naruto is in the lower section. I'd rate it with 5/10. If you value artistic freedom and unique storytelling, then I suggest you to read some short series like
- G Senjou Heaven's Door
- Holograph
- PlanetES

Longer series:
- Sanctuary
- Eden - It's an endless World
- Hotman

If you want to compare it with better shonen series:
- Ares

Storywise I would arrange all shonen like this:

One Piece < Naruto < Bleach < Ares < Ryuuroden < Hajime No Ippo

But the best of the best is truly highly underrated and almost unknown: Lone Wolf & Cub.

I see no way how you could call Naruto artistic and unique after reading those mentioned series. If you have problems finding them, you can get them all on my site called Manga Underground (look in bakau's affiliate list), where I keep track of my favourite series.

Last edited by silverado at 3:18 am, Nov 16 2007

Enough about Naruto hating, there's so much One Piece hating! ;_; WAI?! One Piece is cool too! ;_; *cuts wrists*

/e-mode


Look, it all comes down to the audience. Different people have different opinion of things. Some people like Picasso, some think he's shit (guilty )

Personally, I don't hate Naruto. I like it, but not totally obsessed with it either.
It has no doubt brought quite a large number of money but I guess I would be speaking for others by saying Naruto brought in quite a lot of retards...no I should say Narutards (the real ones)

Now people think that they know all about anime and manga just because they read/watch Naruto and they act like it's the best thing on earth. Oh, not to mention we get idiots walking down the street wearing the headbands (and Death Note fans with their Death Notes >_> ) It's pretty understandable why people would start hating it. It's not that they hate hate it. It's that they're trying to make those retards to start hating it in a way...or at least make them lose some interest.

See, that's my comment on it. Just don't....tase me bro >_>

RANT


But really though, guys. Don't get pissed over other people's ratings. Critics exist everywhere. You can't escape their clutches
You don't have to accept it, just acknowledge it

...and One Piece is NOT crap T_T

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Everyday I'm tumblin'

gotta agree, and the amount of manga i read is even larger (i havent taken the time to add stuff to reading list).

Naruto is a reasonable manga, but i don't believe it warrants 10/10 which is how you seem to think everyone should rate it.
Every has their own views, and most naruto haters don't hate it for the sake of hating it, but rather because they can appreciate a wider variety of manga and compare it them to naruto.

I stopped following naruto, and give it around 6.5-7/10 in my unbiased opinion.

@viking_player:

I don't mean to flam you, but you actually proved many of Daedalus' points with just opening your mouth.

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mwa ha ha ha...
Check out my FF7 hardcore mod (PC version only): http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=6818.0

eh i dont really caree i just gott pissed off when he was putting down other mangas.

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I don't hate Naruto, but I don't love it either. I sort of lost interest in reading it a while ago... I stopped reading a bit after . I think it's just that I've outgrown the shounen genre as a whole, although I do read some series on occasion.

Lots of shounen series now seem to go with the power up -> fight bad guy A -> power up -> fight bad guy B -> power up, etc. I'm not saying Naruto is like that, since I haven't read it in a while, but it sure seemed to be headed in that direction. And I just don't like the character Naruto either. My favorite is Shikimaru and he doesn't seem to show up that much.

I haven't rated Naruto, but I think the rating now (8.1) sounds about right for it. Some shounen series that I think are better than Naruto would be Hajime no Ippo and Full Metal Alchemist. I know HnI uses the power up -> fight -> power up -> fight formula, but for some reason I still enjoy it. Maybe I just like the characters more. And I like the plot in Full Metal Alchemist much better.

While I can't say that I've read all of Naruto (I haven't; I'm at volume 20), I can say that I'm surprised about all the hate for it, and the fact that people would give it such low ratings. In my opinion, it isn't the best shounen series out there - let alone the best ever - but it definitely isn't a bad manga. Perhaps it has gotten worse, but if I can read half of the series and still love it, I think that's enough to show that it didn't go downhill pretty quickly.

Anyway, I think it DID have some unique plot twists. Yes, Naruto may have had an incredible amount of raw power, but it's one of the first shounen series I've read where the main character is not naturally good at things, and doesn't even pick up on techniques very quickly. He works hard. Additionally,



That's not something I usually see in shounen series.

And finally, who cares about power-ups? The only manga that don't have power-ups are the ones where the characters start off ridiculously overpowered anyway. It'd be boring if you had an average or weak character who never got stronger. No, it may not have been done in the most original way, but when someone whines about power-ups, it feels to me as if they just dislike the series, but can't think about a good reason why, so they just complain about the power-ups.

Again, I'm not saying Naruto is the best series out there, but I think a LOT of people here are biased by either a love of the genre (pro-Naruto), or a love of another genre (anti-Naruto) and the general attitude of haters that completely overpowers any other voice.

HnI and FMA are both masterpiece shounens. FMA managed to avoid the trap Naruto fell in, by becoming ultra famous. Most manga fans have a certain respect for FMA. It's in the border land of "underground" and famous, thus doesn't recieve the same amount of hate as Naruto.

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mwa ha ha ha...
Check out my FF7 hardcore mod (PC version only): http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=6818.0

I suppose you're right, but it's just that when you see so many of these power-ups through so many different series, it starts getting really boring. And I think I've figured out why it doesn't bother me as much when seeing it in Hajime no Ippo. That's because when I see Ippo getting stronger, I can understand it happening. I can see him doing extreme training (inhuman I'd say) but it's still something that's in the realm of possibility. But seeing Naruto train in chakra techniques is just like watching magic. It can be interesting, but it just doesn't catch my attention in the same way. Another example is how Hikaru in Hikaru no Go gets stronger and stronger through the series. I don't play Go at all, and I don't have much of an interest to. But I can understand how he's getting stronger and what he has to do in order to become stronger.