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Post #560614 - Reply to (#560603) by kaidiego
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10:01 am, Jul 11 2012
Posts: 298


Quote from kaidiego
You dont have to have a phd in linguistics or phiolosophy to understand that "not to judge" is a more general rule then "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." One applies everyone everytime and the other applies only to the situation where a man lies with an other male as one lies with a female. Lex specialis is used by religious scholastics that probably has used a lot more time trying to understand the scriptures than you have. In fact i think its origin is from catholics interpreting the bible. Now a days its a common rule in many national laws.


... So does this mean lesbianism is off the hook?, within the given context straight females are an abomination bigrazz

I've always wondered where all this hatred originated from, because in pre-Christian Rome homosexuality was socially accepted (at least amongst men, but not without its rules... not sure about women).
Sure this differed from region to region and even time period, but it was Christianity that eventually put a stop to everything. In fact, I believe same-sex marriages were legal (or at least semi-legal) in ancient Rome, and thus the greater part of Europe, for a long while. After some digging, Egypt apparently had the first recorded homosexual couple around 27 centuries ago (so yes, it's been going on for a looong time).
Homosexuality was considered quite normal in the regions of China and Japan (not sure about India) for a long while (up to about 300 years ago actually).

Ooh, fun fact (did not know that yet):
"Early laws in Australia were based on then-current laws in Britain, which were inherited upon colonisation in 1788. Lesbianism was never illegal in Britain nor its colonies, including Australia."
- wikipedia

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10:01 am, Jul 11 2012
Posts: 1041


well
as a socialist
i can give you a couple of reasons why homosexuality was[and still is] considered bad

but you should just wikipedia it instead
coz i dont want to start some hate argument lol

coz even if i see why homosexuality is bad for a "unit"
it could be worked around...with out wasting too much resources


Post #560618 - Reply to (#560615) by TaoPaiPai
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10:11 am, Jul 11 2012
Posts: 298


Quote from TaoPaiPai
well
as a socialist
i can give you a couple of reasons why homosexuality was[and still is] considered bad

but you should just wikipedia it instead
coz i dont want to start some hate argument lol

coz even if i see why homosexuality is bad for a "unit"
it could be worked around...with out wa ...


No need for that, thank you.

But what do you mean with "wasting too much resources"?
You (could?) see homosexuality as bad for a "unit"... Why? And don't start with reproduction, I'm starting to get very tired of that non-argument.
Homosexuality is not a show stopper for creating (and raising) offspring, these days it's even less of an argument (not even required to have sex).
Also, if done right, you'd only need to have sex with the opposite gender once.... One single time. Creating a child doesn't require love, raising it does (and studies have shown that it ultimately makes no difference if it's parents share the same sex or even gender.)

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Post #560621
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10:30 am, Jul 11 2012
Posts: 9


Quote from asmageddon
In the end Bible was written by humans

That’s true but we believe Bible was inspired by God.

Quote from asmageddon
II agree that the Bible is full of inconsistencies and often bullshit, but while Christianity is founded upon it's teachings, it doesn't mean every Christian is required to follow it's teachings word by word.

We don't interpret every word written in Bible literally, the most important is message in it. And the message in short is love.

Like it was said earlier we don't judge. Being homosexual is not a sin, but hmm… “doing homo things” sorry I really don’t know how to say it. And it’s a sin like sex before marriage, lying or others sins.
If they want marriage in the law way I don't see a problem, I have no right to stop them they have a free will but in the catholic church it is impossible, marriage can be only between woman and man.

Sorry for my English.

Post #560738 - Reply to (#560569) by kaidiego
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3:06 am, Jul 12 2012
Posts: 21


Kaidiego,
On taking a chance, yes but I personally feel in my faith, I am taking chances everyday with others things too. Whether it be lying, arguing with a parent, reading or watching stuff that may not be good for the soul, and really the list could just go on; I know since I am imperfect and make many mistakes, when I do go to heaven and have to answer to all my sins that I have yet to ask forgiveness on, I will not be surprised if I see a few angles face-palm when I come.

Being labeled pro gay marriage does not mean that I don’t question gay marriage. To an extent I do feel it is wrong, but I do know there are people who are both male & female, besides that I have recently seen a show (I do know it could be completely fake, but it made me think) called “I am My Own Twin”. The show talked about different people from different areas that found out that they had two different DNA within them.

Also, I know I’ve already have said this, but it is not my place to judge what others do. I may give an opinion and I’ll do my best to respect others opinions. If a couple of the same sex wants to enter into a union and be given the same rights by their government as a “traditional” union they should. The only thing is that for Churches or anyone of a belief who sees marriage as a union only between a male and a female should have their belief/view respected as well. Of course this will be difficult, since people will (or try to) sue one-another over stupid stuff.

As for your questions about God making things clear… I only have an opinion. Yes, he could have made it clear on what are all sins and what are not. Since I do believe in Jesus and the Holy Spirit, I would have to say God has appeared in two of his three forms. On the sparing us trouble…. Honestly I think it a mixture of two things. One part (I think) is that he’s the parent type that doesn’t think he should spell everything out for us. The second part (I think) God is (at times) a sarcastic being that from time to time enjoys watching drama. (Sorry to anyone who is offended by my opinion)

I agree, there’s nothing to argue about since we agree on the main topic. I hope I answered your questions clearly. I’ve been entertained by your response and questions. Besides, how is one to grow as a person if they do not and are not question on everything? Well it has been a pleasure corresponding with you.
biggrin

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7:01 am, Jul 12 2012
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I'm 23, born and raised in North England. My mother raised me and my siblings as Church of England christians, but my dad is an atheist so our house isn't very religious and we were allowed to make out own choice when we were teenagers. I chose to become confirmed and am a Christian. As far as I know, no one in my family is homosexual. I am what my friends call 100% straight, as in so straight I have a hard time even determining which girls are pretty or not. I just don't look at girls like that at all.

So background over. Personally I have no strong feelings one way or the other. I don't really think too much about homosexuality as I can't really see what all the fuss is about. From a science perspective, I am curious as to why we, as a species, would evolve a form of attraction that does not allow us to procreate and propagate. That is pretty much it.

I could start going on about how I have gay friends, therefore I'm so accepting, but honestly I just donb't really care all that much. If people want to be homosexual, fine. I find two girls kissing, or two guys kissing no less disgusting than seeing a heterosexual couple all over each other. If homosexuals want to get married, then they should be allowed to. I think individual vicars and preists should have the right to refuse to marry anyone if it goes against their beliefs, but legally I can't see the problem. In the UK we have civil partnership, which is basically a legal marriage by a different name. Calling it what it is isn't going to do any more damage to the sanctity of marriage anyway.

People often quote the Bible as a reason not to support homosexuality, but God taught us Love and Peace above all. If people don't agree, then they shouldn't engage in homosexual acts, but of all the sins in the Bible, I really don't think two men or two women falling in love should rank higher than murder, rape, slavery etc etc etc. People need to get their priorities sorted. Besides, God made us all, which means He made homosexuals as well, so I say let them be in love. It's not doing any harm.

As for the child issue. Given the number of children born to abusive or neglectful parents, I really can't see how 2 loving Dads or 2 adoring mums can possibly be more damaging to a alcoholic abusive father or drugged up, neglectful mother. Homosexuals can't have their own kids, which means they are far more likely to treasure and protect a kid given to them. The only damage caused by having homosexual parents is by the stigma taught to our children. Simple solution - stop being homophobic. I mean, really, kids need a mother and father? What about all those single parent families out there. My best friend is from a single parent family. He dad died when she was only a few months old. She grew up fine, She's doing a phd right now, not exactly damaged and off-the-rails. It's not about how many or what gendered parents someone has, it's about how they raise the child.

I can't think of another argument. Basically my answer is yes, let them get legally married. Religiously married is up to the religion, and as I personally don't really see how it affects my life, I don't really care if they do.

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Post #560760
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9:03 am, Jul 12 2012
Posts: 92


I'm 20 and I believe in same sex marriage. As for the argument that marriage is only a means to procreate- what century are we in?!!? Seriously? Maybe that was the reason in the middle ages when you had 12 children because 6 of them would die before adulthood, but I don't think we're in danger of running out of people. In fact, we're kind of over-populated. There are already too many children in the system who aren't adopted or treated correctly and people want to cut out potential homes- good, caring parents who would love and cherish those children because they are both of the same gender? I think giving them to people who adopt 9 children at a time for the state check and tax cuts is worse.

As for the age thing, generally younger people (I'm going to say mid to late twenties and younger) are going to be more accepting of homosexuality. Our parents generation is iffy- they are homophobic or they don't believe in gay marriage, and old people are probably still slightly racist- enough said about their views on the LGBT community. Logistically, big and urbanized cities are going to be more accepting, also in the US the East and West Coast are more liberal (I have no comment on Iowa who is in the center and defying my generalizations by legalizing gay marriage in '09 lol)


*****And on another note, when I was checking the date of legalization for Iowa I came across an unbelievable article about the Episcopal Church having it's own version of a "gay marriage." Apparently it's only a union called "The Witnessing and Blessing of A Lifelong Covenant" (not a legal form of marriage) but it is performed and sanctioned by the clergy. It is on a 3 year trial at the moment but it is a step in bringing both religion and same sex marriage together. This should be very interesting and helpful in your debate. (Though I keep looking for the "this is only a joke" caption at the end of the article... wow... mind blow..) Several links from different sources to be sure it's real...

[/url]http://www.goddiscussion.com/98411/episcopal-church-approves -a-blessing-rite-for-same-sex-marriages-with-controversy/[url]

http://articles.cnn.com/2012-07-10/us/us_episcopal-same-sex-uni ons_1_blessing-service-episcopal-church-church-leaders

http://www.kait8.com/story/19003199/episcopal-church-approves -same-sex-blessing-service

Last edited by rychels at 9:51 am, Jul 12 2012

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10:04 am, Jul 12 2012
Posts: 128


Why the f..k does everyone here feel the need to state their age? It looks so incredibly out of place that I don't even know how to comment.

Post #560764 - Reply to (#560763) by asmageddon
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10:12 am, Jul 12 2012
Posts: 92


Quote from asmageddon
Why the f..k does everyone here feel the need to state their age? It looks so incredibly out of place that I don't even know how to comment.


Because the poster of this thread asked for people to state their age along with their view on gay marriage.. check again, it's there.

Post #560770 - Reply to (#560760) by rychels
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11:28 am, Jul 12 2012
Posts: 9


Quote from rychels
As for the age thing, generally younger people (I'm going to say mid to late twenties and younger) are going to be more accepting of homosexuality. Our parents generation is iffy- they are homophobic or they don't believe in gay marriage, and old people are probably still slightly racist- enough said about their views on the LGBT community.


You would be suprised biggrin .The only people I know who are againist are people in our age (20) I asked older peopole (45-60) and they don't care if they want to be together let them be.



Last edited by aggi102 at 11:36 am, Jul 12 2012

Post #560881 - Reply to (#560764) by rychels
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1:10 am, Jul 13 2012
Posts: 128


Quote from rychels
Because the poster of this thread asked for people to state their age along with their view on gay marriage.. check again, it's there.

Ooh, didn't notice that, sorry.

Anyway, I'm 19, male and would rate myself 1 on Kinsey scale.

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Big Bucks
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1:40 pm, Jul 13 2012
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I'm 22 years old. As an bio-chemical engineer, I consider myself a successfully knowledgeable scientist. And as a scientist, I try to remain subjective and objective. It is very bad for a scientist to be ruled by emotion - especially when that emotion can jeopardize a result or study.

As I see it, to most heterosexuals, homosexuals have misplaced feelings with gender recognition. They aren't ruled by laws, but by emotion. To people, this could be a good thing. And to others, this could be considered a bad thing. Whether it be religious, scientific, or lawful - as I see it, homosexuals are not accepted by most standards of this world.

Religious Reasons - Homosexual relationships are considered immoral, impure, and sinful.
Scientific Reasons - Homosexual relationships have sexual flaws as in procreation incompatibilities. It does, however, encourage emotional solutions.
Lawful Reasons - Homosexual relationships is considered a sex crime. Laws that bypass such relationships are considered flawed/weak laws that will soon be bypassed by other illegal relationships.

Personally, I consider homosexuality a human flaw. Other than emotional gratitude, there is nothing scientific to gain from such a uniting relationship. You see, homosexuals are very smart. They have realized that they have no way of being accepted 100% through religious and scientific means. So they try to gain government acceptance. Homosexuals are insecure. They know very well that they can't survive in this world alone. They need a formidable ally that can approve of their flaws. In the past, they've seen the government change laws for a greater purpose - and they consider their sexual condition a greater purpose. They've succeeded on manipulating major parts of the world - both lawfully and mentally. And they'll continue to succeed.

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On a scientific platform, I try to look at magnets as a fundamental imagery of humanity. Magnets have two magnetic polls on each side - Positive and Negative. Two magnets facing each other with the same magnetic charge repels each other. But two magnets facing each other with the opposite magnetic charge pulls them together. This is how human-gender programming should work. BUT, humanity is not that simple to understand. Magnets except their natural magnetic programming because they aren't distinguished by brains or rational thinking - they do-not have freewill. If they did, many of our scientific equipment may not work because an electric charge decided to abandon its normal programming. It's how we see robots or android movies these days. Homosexuals are ruled by emotion. They disregard their molecular functioning. Their attractions, their manipulated minds have already clouded their judgement and others around them.

This is how human-beings adapt. When we don't see an immediate threat, we let it spread into the wilderness. And when we do manage to find a threat, damage has already been afflicted - and it is often too late for positive change. Right now, homosexuality is at its baby stage (Infancy). This is the stage where it is considered cute, cuddly, and innocent. But when it reaches its adult stage (through acceptance), that will be the real test for humanity to its result. Maybe 200-500 years from now, homosexuality will reach it adult stages.

But as of right now, I view homosexual marriages as an pest - a nonsensical drama that needs to be eradicated from humanity. But as a scientist, I should and will remain subjective on this subject. My fiance accepts homosexual marriages and is failing-ly trying to convince me - but I hope for the best of these sexual changes to mankind.

Last edited by StaticHD at 1:54 pm, Jul 13 2012

SQr
Post #560965 - Reply to (#560963) by StaticHD
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2:08 pm, Jul 13 2012
Posts: 2


Quote from StaticHD
I'm 22 years old. As an bio-chemical engineer, I consider myself a successfully knowledgeable scientist. And as a scientist, I try to remain subjective and objective. It is very bad for a scientist to be ruled by emotion - especially when that emotion can jeopardize a result or study.

As I see it, ...


Well said! smile

Post #560973 - Reply to (#560963) by StaticHD
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3:25 pm, Jul 13 2012
Posts: 155


As a biochem major, I am happy to reply to a biochem engineer. Though, don't mind my poor English. Your post on homosexuality make absolutely no sense to me.

Religious Reasons - Many religious scholars had argue that there are multiple ways to interpret a religious verse. As a non religious person, I rather don't care. Christians or Muslims nowadays are very flaws. Pick and chose and prioritizing sins is just ridiculous for a scientific mind.

Scientific Reasons - Homosexual relationships have promote male bonding in animal. And to certain experiment on rats, as a rat population increase, homosexual activity increase at faster rate as a population control. Nature had always find way to limit a population to a more sustainable size. Homosexuality at least seem more humane than war, starvation, etc.

Lawful Reasons - Laws are not always just. In muslim nations, some women and men were put to death because of a youtube video that show they were dancing in a wedding ceremony. Not so long ago, the law prevent certain population from voting. And not so long before that, it was perfectly legal to own another human being.

"Homosexuals are insecure. They know very well that they can't survive in this world alone."

This statement is quite flaw. First of it assume homosexuality is some sort of species, while homosexuals are continuously make by heterosexual parents. Second of, they are survive just fine. Unless, there are crazy people who hunt them down and burn them like witches. In some cases that is true. The Iranian president famously said that there is no homosexual in his country.

"On a scientific platform, I try to look at magnets as a fundamental imagery of humanity. Magnets have two magnetic polls on each side - Positive and Negative."

Romance is more complicate than that. It is true, that sometimes opposite personality attracts. But unlike a magnet whose law is absolute, human is so damn complex for a magnet analogy. Not only that I found the comparison doesn't make any senses. So I used a water changing phases according to temperature, then I compare that people moods change because of temperature and because people are made of water. Non sense.

"But as of right now, I view homosexual marriages as an pest - a nonsensical drama that needs to be eradicated from humanity."

How so? Are you talking about homosexuals as a whole or just the marriage debate? Because as of thus far based on your language. It seemed you referred to homosexuals as a whole. Yeah, they can't really survive if people wanna eradicate them like that.

I could careless about the debate. But I picked on this particular poster due to his scientific nonsense claim.

Post #560974
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3:33 pm, Jul 13 2012
Posts: 278


Homosexual relations were quite accepted in ancient Greece and stuff.
Also There are enough people who are doing all sorts of other things like anal and fellatio.
You sound like sex should only be used for procreation, and nobody is allowed to have fun doing it mad

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