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The reliance on "one-click" host for scanlation groups

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lolnameless
Post #608598
Member

7:34 am, Jul 26 2013
Posts: 21


The problem is stopping me to reach any scanlation (group) or manga in entirety, i figure that it might be useful here to fresh out the actual situation a bit.

Imo, we don't need something like "one-click" host in 2013 in the first place, it makes download very very hard for average people and it actually feeds the "online readers" like mangahere mangafox, who took all the exposure and so on. They gain great profit from ads and they can take the time to download from one-click host. The profit will in turn be spent into other things to take away the exposure of scanlation groups and maintain the reliance on online reader(which i found useless), they may also be responsible for making download and sharing hard for everyone in the back, i am not sure how far they extend their power but the way small scanlation groups hide exposure in fear of "copyright", all the while the online readers are profiting from "violating copyright" doesn't add up. Imo, they are the cancers.

Everyone should be using torrent(the de facto p2p file sharing technology IMO) and paste a magnet link of the torrent and that is pretty much it.

It is also funny how some scanlation groups try their very best to "hide" the link, while unplugging from Web2.0(not entirely, just download links) already is the most subtle way to stay low-profile.

Last edited by lolnameless at 8:07 am, Jul 26

Gradonil_Ral
Post #608617
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[ONeoRa] Co-Admin
Member

10:59 am, Jul 26 2013
Posts: 194


Torrent requires constant seeding and not everyone can do that.
Some people have small upload speeds. It's easier to upload a chapter once, rather than seed it to many people. Let's be honest - not many people choose to seed back.

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lolnameless
Post #608623 - Reply to (#608617) by Gradonil_Ral
Member

12:04 pm, Jul 26 2013
Posts: 21


Quote
Torrent requires constant seeding and not everyone can do that.

Raspberry Pi, you are welcome.
Also, i suppose most of us either uses laptop, tablet or android in daily basis, you can seed while you are on, you can download while you seed, why download you ask? It is time to learn how to make use of the internet, i am not even going for hollywood anime blu-ray, I merely download books often and it still never end.
Quote
Some people have small upload speeds.

It is fine, some people seed for the sake of helping them out.
Quote
It's easier to upload a chapter once, rather than seed it to many people.

You don't have to. Well, if you read this sentence again, it looks very fishy to me.
Quote
Let's be honest - not many people choose to seed back.

As if it costs you anything? Let's be scientific, let's see what we've got on bakabt.me:
Quote
We have 263,774 registered users (81,558 power users). We are tracking 13,245 torrents of which 0 are unseeded.

We currently service 308,537 peers (4,815 anonymous). 295,954 seeders and 12,583 leechers. Overall ratio of our pooled peers is 23.520.

These are all anime, manga, OST, things like that. Also, you don't have to find like 5 or 10 seeders to download, just one seeder is enough, it explains the underlying magic of 0 unseeded torrent. A manga is speaking of about a 15~20MB (from Dorohedoro a very detailed manga) a chapter, maybe half a GB or GBs for all volumes, only torrent can offer a collection of manga without wrapping your head around the "one-click" host or online readers which you can't really download. I cant find any other way to reach this kind of efficiency and completeness on the internet except we do it straight from p2p without begging for middlemen.

Sorry if my tone is too harsh but i just cant agree with you.

Last edited by lolnameless at 12:24 pm, Jul 26

junna
Post #608627
user avatar
Of Mangas and...
Member

1:04 pm, Jul 26 2013
Posts: 12


unfortunately, my country not only blocks Torrents and it is capable of detecting torrents (thanks mr ISP provider)...I can go to jail just because I seed. 3 strikes and I'm out doing time...they already sent a few to jail last year. I admit I already am a pirate, I just don't want to aggravate the condition.

Also I'm just a small time scanlator (almost alone) with little knowledge on stuff like VPNs and whatnot and even if I do use a VPN...it's not worth it since the stuff I scanlate barely even reach 150 downloads. Heck, if my release timing was bad, I'd be lucky if my stuff gets 50 downloads.

torrents is not for me. perhaps it might work better with those who have lots of download rates and staff.

KuoVell
Post #608634 - Reply to (#608598) by lolnameless
Member

2:22 pm, Jul 26 2013
Posts: 7


This has got to be one of the most nonsensical posts (both in terms of content and form) I've seen on MU in a while.


lolnameless
Post #608636 - Reply to (#608627) by junna
Member

2:33 pm, Jul 26 2013
Posts: 21


Quote from junna
unfortunately, my country not only blocks Torrents and it is capable of detecting torrents (thanks mr ISP provider)...I can go to jail just because I seed. 3 strikes and I'm out doing time....they already sent a few to jail last year.

bittorrent is a mere technology, software repositories, data, archives all make heavy use of bittorrent(see also http://https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitTorrent#Adoption).

You have to realize that your government is taking away your fundamental right of merely connecting yourself to the others(Skype is also p2p, btw.). Copyright trolls are hardly relevant in my area, the world is essentially moving forward in this aspect. You also didn't give me any source, eg. the news article? which what is your country and ISP?
You should also consider make their nice little name appears here.
Quote
I admit I already am a pirate, I just don't want to aggravate the condition.

Pir..what?! They are trying to throw you(relevant). Sharing is human rights, without which I hardly call myself a human.
Quote
Also I'm just a small time scanlator (almost alone) with little knowledge on stuff like VPNs and whatnot and even if I do use a VPN...it's not worth it since the stuff I scanlate barely even reach 150 downloads. Heck, if my release timing was bad, I'd be lucky if my stuff gets 50 downloads.

torrents is not for me. perhaps it might work better with those who have lots of download rates and staff.

Well, you don't really need a VPN, they also want your ISP bad to certain degree. I still suggest you torrent, because the most dangerous bit is in fact the way you upload anything to the Web.
Two ways, if you are uploading raw, then i would say it is reasonably common, speaking about a decade, that they use anonymous p2p software, e.g. i2p offers torrent, perfect dark illegal only in Japan.
If you work alone, then people will find your raw useful and distribute. The advantage is that it is encrypted and anonymous, so your government cant charge you anything until when they declare certain protocol (like perfect dark) illegal. I bet they didn't do that, so you have freedom to play around the law too! It is perfectly legal.
Another less tech-oriented way is that you can send your raw to group members or ask your friend so they can upload it for you.

Quote from KuoVell
This has got to be one of the most nonsensical posts (both in terms of content and form) I've seen on MU in a while.

Thank you.

Last edited by lambchopsil at 3:06 pm, Jul 26

Topomouse
Post #608642
Member

3:40 pm, Jul 26 2013
Posts: 60


Forgive my ignorance but what do you mean by "one click host"? Since you compared it to torrent i initially thought you meant direct downloads, but that can't be since direct download are more convinient then torrent for the average user.

Belegorm
Post #608644 - Reply to (#608642) by Topomouse
Member

4:11 pm, Jul 26 2013
Posts: 19


Quote from Topomouse
Forgive my ignorance but what do you mean by "one click host"? Since you compared it to torrent i initially thought you meant direct downloads, but that can't be since direct download are more convinient then torrent for the average user.


Since the death of MU and a few other sites like that, a number of scanlators have come to start using these "1-click sites" where you get a bunch of different sites to download the chapter from, like MF and FS.

Unfortunately, for people like me, these 1 click things are ridiculously infested with adds and popups usually, and additionally it's a real pain in the butt to deal with. I never used to go to them but nowadays I just end up using an online reader.

That said I think torrents are definitely not the right answer for this problem; we'd all like fast working downloads, and having each chapter as they come out on a separate torrent just leads to having almost no one seeding, thus making the downloads take a lot longer than they should be. Maybe for full volumes, but still.

Gradonil_Ral
Post #608646
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[ONeoRa] Co-Admin
Member

4:25 pm, Jul 26 2013
Posts: 194


Quote from lolnameless
Raspberry Pi, you are welcome.

I already pay for hosting the website and for the raws (including enormous shipping prices) - why would I choose to buy a thing I don't need, just so the leechers who are too lazy to wait X secs and/or fill in a captcha would have it easier?
Quote
You don't have to. Well, if you read this sentence again, it looks very fishy to me.

There's nothing wrong with the sentence. I'd rather upload a chapter once and be done with it, instead of sending it (or parts of it) to multiple people. Especially since:
Quote
As if it costs you anything?

It does. Download rate/website loading time gets very restricted when you upload anything via adsl.

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Textile
Post #608647 - Reply to (#608644) by Belegorm
user avatar
Member

4:54 pm, Jul 26 2013
Posts: 21


Quote from Belegorm
Unfortunately, for people like me, these 1 click things are ridiculously infested with adds and popups usually, and additionally it's a real pain in the butt to deal with. I never used to go to them but nowadays I just end up using an online reader.


Or you could just... I dunno, use an add block program. Poof problem solved~

I don't download stuff much myself. I already got enough junk on my computer. But it's pretty okay within the community to go to Batoto to read. You're trying to fix a problem that isn't broken. But to each their own I guess. =/

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lolnameless
Post #608648 - Reply to (#608642) by Topomouse
Member

4:56 pm, Jul 26 2013
Posts: 21


If by "direct download" you mean url like this, then you are right if we ignore other issue.

"one-click host" are sites that wait 30 seconds, dodge some ads, type some captcha and then one-click, download once at a time, 30min pause or maybe twice a day...etc. that kind of host.

Some groups even require one to go through some obscure registration and instruction to find that link! If one can endure that, then why not switch to torrent?

Also, you probably realize that there are many technological aspects i don't feel quite right about. Still, I don't want the thread keep spreading out.

My primary focus is scanlation groups.

Scanlation groups should know that we are in the age where it is fairly easy to setup your own full-blown website(or blog), reader, download, forum, everything, wait.. download? who pay for the bandwidth then? No one -> bittorrent.

The online readers, publishers and other are somewhat useless layer on the internet. I can imagine manga is categorized/searched/indexed from (say) MU and keep that diversity of scanlation groups growing in a natural way. The online readers on the other hand, aren't they good-for-nothing then? The only thing they could possibly do is to murder such diversity at their very best. I think their existence is necessarily there to go backward in time, i think they can't be trusted, they are too dangerous. That's my POV.

On the other hand, I absolutely cant understand why these online readers can be so wildly open about violating copyright, while most(maybe just some) groups are in (more-or-less) fear. They do things that keep themselves inaccessible. Don't you think it is fishy?
Quote from Gradonil_Ral
I already pay for hosting the website and for the raws (including enormous shipping prices) - why would I choose to buy a thing I don't need, just so the leechers who are too lazy to wait X secs and/or fill in a captcha would have it easier?

Try argue against the numbers from bakabt.me with 0 unseeded torrent. Also, you've contributed enough so i guess it makes sense.
Quote from Belegorm
Unfortunately, for people like me, these 1 click things are ridiculously infested with adds and popups usually, and additionally it's a real pain in the butt to deal with. I never used to go to them but nowadays I just end up using an online reader.

See?!
Quote
That said I think torrents are definitely not the right answer for this problem; we'd all like fast working downloads, and having each chapter as they come out on a separate torrent just leads to having almost no one seeding, thus making the downloads take a lot longer than they should be. Maybe for full volumes, but still.

That's why we need more desire, in order to realize and eventually accept that there is no such magic like "fast working server", they will figure torrent out by themselves and in fact adjust themselves to the environment. As for the technical problems, you made a misconception most people did, a working p2p network is by design don't tolerant leechers who don't upload(think of the n-person equilibrium you learn from econ101), which is actually governed by your client because the programmers kindly confine such standard. While you leech, it is often the case that you actually upload more than seeders, since seeders may have other seeds. Hence, Hotter = Faster. When the hot period is gone, i argue torrents won't be necessarily dead. Most big torrent client comes with RSS+Scheduler, it addresses this problem to certain degree, a tiny fraction of us would seed and ..again, we need only 1 seeder to make something available.

Last edited by lolnameless at 5:45 pm, Jul 26

Gradonil_Ral
Post #608649 - Reply to (#608648) by lolnameless
user avatar
[ONeoRa] Co-Admin
Member

5:33 pm, Jul 26 2013
Posts: 194


Quote
"one-click host" are sites that wait 30 seconds, dodge some ads, type some captcha and then one-click, download once at a time, 30min pause or maybe twice a day...etc. that kind of host.

Ever since most of the file hosts with a PPD system closed down, more and more scanlators have been using:
Sendspace - no wait, captcha appears only when you download multiple files
Zippyshare - no wait, captcha appears only for big files (~200mb, I think) | very fast
Mediafire - no wait, captcha appears only when you download multiple files
Mega - no wait | very fast

Are these bad too?

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lolnameless
Post #608651 - Reply to (#608649) by Gradonil_Ral
Member

6:16 pm, Jul 26 2013
Posts: 21


Quote from Belegorm
Unfortunately, for people like me, these 1 click things are ridiculously infested with adds and popups usually, and additionally it's a real pain in the butt to deal with. I never used to go to them but nowadays I just end up using an online reader.

I am not the only one, it is a known lose fight against online readers. Torrents also offers an improvement.
Quote from bakabt.me
We have 263,774 registered users (81,558 power users). We are tracking 13,245 torrents of which 0 are unseeded.

We currently service 308,537 peers (4,815 anonymous). 295,954 seeders and 12,583 leechers. Overall ratio of our pooled peers is 23.520.


tart
Post #608652 - Reply to (#608648) by lolnameless
Member

6:21 pm, Jul 26 2013
Posts: 205


Quote from lolnameless
"one-click host" are sites that wait 30 seconds, dodge some ads, type some captcha and then one-click, download once at a time, 30min pause or maybe twice a day...etc. that kind of host.


You can just use browser add-ons like AdBlockPlus to block the ads. And it can also blocks ads on online reader sites like MangaFox if you add them to the filter.

Also, I know some scanlation groups use adf.ly with "one-click" media-sharing sites to help make up on costs of buying manga raws.

lolnameless
Post #608771 - Reply to (#608652) by tart
Member

4:37 pm, Jul 27 2013
Posts: 21


Quote
adf.ly with "one-click" media-sharing sites

I think some thought has to be put on this, i think adf.ly has no direct relation to "one-click" host isn't it?
It may sounds awkward but i prefer a website with ads on just one link than ads flying around its homepage.
One can adf.ly the magnet link too!

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