Well, what is the most prevalent shounen manga ever? I think that would be DB. How many volumes did that have.

My point is this: Bleach is a step ahead of it's 2 main competitors(One Piece and Naruto) in artwork, plot, and action. All it needs is drama (like Kenshin has).

________________
Listen here
Livin just to keep from dyin

ah that's quite true

Cheers mate!

My post count is revolutionary!!!!

________________
Listen here
Livin just to keep from dyin

Ok so In DBZ until the arrival of raditz and then vegeta and his buddy the saga was more "friendly" : more fantastic ,no insane battle of power with , slightly ecchi , no real story except getting the dragon ball once in a time ....
And then those 3 utterly powerful guys arrive out of nowhere with a underplot of family (raditz is the brother of sangoku) and they (here raditz) leave for dead the hero (sangoku is really dead)while he was trying to protect someone (sangohan ) and he 'll have to train like hell to battle on a whole other battleground (namu) never seen before . A supreme technique is diclosed (super sayian) which is reached once a millenar by the elite . But sangoku while he's supposed to be a underdog (as he was dropped out by the saians : he's supposed to be the weakest) with a lot of heart succeed in getting this technique and while being hurt a lot of times is healed a insanely amount of times (at least 3 times on a foreign world where he should be all alone) .One of the guy who "killed" him (vegeta) is a rival but he eventually allies with him to topple down a greater evil (freezer) : ironically this guy who is pure (vegeta is born on the planet of the saians) who has also been pursuing the supreme technique fails . Eventually this so called supreme technique mastered only by the best is reached by everyone (all the sayans turn out to be super saians.)


In bleach until the arrival of byakuya and renji the saga was more "friendly" : no big battle , no real story except casting away the hollows.
And then those 2 utterly powerful guys arrive out of nowhere with a underplot of family (byakuya is the brother of reika) and they (renji and byakuya) leave for dead the hero (ichigo has his power shut down and is supposed to die of it )while he was trying to protect someone (reika ) and he 'll have to train like hell to battle on a whole other battleground (soul society) never seen before .(the only difference lies in the fact he merged raditz and vegeta in byakuya) . A supreme technique is diclosed (bankai) which is reached ONLY by the captains . But ichigo while he's supposed to be a underdog (as he' not from the soul society , he has been given his gift by error , he's supposed to be the weakest) with a lot of heart succeed in getting this technique and while being hurt a lot of times is healed a insanely amount of times (at least 3 times on a foreign world where he should be all alone) .
One of the guy who "killed" him (renji) is a rival but he eventually allies with him to topple down a greater evil (aizen) : ironically this guy who is pure (renji is born the soul society) and who has also been pursuing the supreme technique fails .
Eventually this so called supreme technique mastered only by the best is reached by everyone (all the character turns out to have a bankai) .

This is not even about concept of shonen . There are other shonen which share concepts with DBZ which is a landmark anyway , but follow different storyline : I hate naruto but the story is really different . I like one piece and it's also very different . I could give a lot of others exemples of different shonen.

2 words
Rip off.

Last edited by ghinzdra at 8:05 pm, Apr 1 2008

That is a very superficial way of looking at it, but ok.

________________
Listen here
Livin just to keep from dyin

following ur thought process, bleach needs angst and more romance

when there are around 20 common points between 2 works supposed to be different I would'nt call it "superficial" .
It's exactly the same thing that the parrarel between Jason Bourne and XIII . The frame has blatantly been copied.

By drawing parallels such as that, you can say that all blues songs are the same, all shoujo romances are the same, that all post apocolyptic manga are the same, that Chocolat (the seinen manga) is a ripoff of Kenshin, that The Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter are ripoffs of The Once and Future King, that The Invisible Man is a ripoff of Huckleberry Finn and so forth. Just because a work follows a certain template doesn't mean that they rip off one another.

Superficially, they are similar. But the fact is that the only things that are similar are the boosts in strength. Furthermore, DBZ is one of the most popular manga in the world, so it is obvious that many mangaka would be influenced by it and it's structure.

Like I said, it has the most potential to develop in the future. (and I don't read One Peice anyway)



________________
Listen here
Livin just to keep from dyin

borrow one or two elements is fine .
But taking a whole structure is way different . On the contrary of what you've been alleging there aren't so much works that do that . They just borrow one or two character or a couple of items or a subplot ,etc....
in manga
The first arc of Samurai kyo has rippen off the first arc of Bastard
Jack Frozen has rippen off Hellsing
Ai Korea has rippen off Love Hina
the 2nd arc of Bleach has rippen off the 2nd Arc of DBZ (super sayian : namek)


I didn't say the whole thing is a rip off , everytime a thing like this occur it happens this way : the mangaka has obviously no idea or he's in awe before a manga and try to remake it his way . As time goes by he gets accustomed to his own universe and has to differ from the original work , the more he writes , the wider the gap becomes .

and so
1 st arc : a pitch but no ideas (a hint of this state : a lot of loopholes in the plot . the mangaka has been writing his story all along . He didn't have a clue of what he was writing about as there are many contradictions and retcons. )
2nd arc (soul society): rip off DBZ
and the best according to most of the people .
3rd and 4tharc (arrancar-huevo mundo): branch off : the mangaka has lot of characters , a world ,etc.... and so doesn't have to think ideas flow naturally ...
But I didn't say it was good ideas ....

There is famous proverb about this : this work is both good and original .
Except what is good is not original and what is original is not good .

add: there is nothing new under the sun to your list of proverbs.

________________
Listen here
Livin just to keep from dyin

Explain that to the mangakas that have been able to create manga worthy enough to be ripped off....
by the way the ecclesiast quote is correct but has a whole different meaning .

character development. And a yuri romance between either Orihime and Chizuru or Tatsuki and Chizuru.

________________
Glados is a bitch. She made me kill the companion cube, the only friend I'll ever have. :cry:

Chibidoro-sama=Neko-freak

Amen!

Bleach needs what most draggy Action Shounen needs. Better Pace!!!!!! It's getting too obvious after a while that a series is slowing down just to milk it for what it's worth. The mangas usually never suffers beyond the pace thing though.


I disagree. Bleach is pretty much on the same level as the others (including Kenshin + [Insert any mainstream shounen manga]). It's generally a question 'bout personal taste. The artwork in particular.

Last edited by gjoerulv at 9:22 am, Apr 2 2008

________________
mwa ha ha ha...
Check out my FF7 hardcore mod (PC version only): http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=6818.0

i think that bleach needs ichigo and rukia need to go on a double date with hitsugaya and momo and aizen and gin need to die

I think Bleach needs to bring to the forefront those characters that have been in the background that everyone is curious about.