i'm not really talking about the gigai there. just about why would kensei and the rests were turned in vizards.
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Chapter -103
Poll
Yes, them getting slain is the reason.
Not yet, Urahara will create them with his gigai project.
Mayuri's research looks interesting...
A combination of reasons...
None of the above, something else
They eat from the flesh of a yoma...erm hollow... =P
Who cares? More groping scenes please! =D
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7:49 am, May 13 2008
Posts: 210
7:49 am, May 13 2008
Posts: 210
Crikey!
Member12:58 pm, May 13 2008
Posts: 1308
Quote from pamc_kel
In order to save the shinigami's lives who are in critical condition such as Kensei if he indeed sustain a huge damage after the surprise attack thus urahara turned them into a vaizard is what your'e. But how? When urahara used the gigai's he is experimenting so that the wounded shinigami will be able to recover while wearing the same? If this is the case then the vaizards became as such was not due to hougyoku after all. I'm not sure about this theory since the battle with aizen is all because hougyoku but who knows, this theory or part of this theory might be correct.
I actually quite agree with your hypothesis..I do believe Urahara made them into Vizards because a probably Near Death situation for all these people, the thing that mystifies me(I almost never follow Bleach until I stumbled on this flashback arc) is that if teh Vizards were the cream of Gotei 13 at one point, why were they kept under wraps for so long? I mean none of teh current Gotei 13 mentions them..And unless I have missed something, I didnt see the then head of teh 10th Division...suppose that is Ichigo's father, then ? ;) still, I dont think all divisions have been shown in the Pendulum arc...I am interested in seeing more familiar faces..
;) ________________
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1:19 pm, May 13 2008
Posts: 6
1:19 pm, May 13 2008
Posts: 6
It might not have been a near-death situation at all. They might have been 'already dead'. Since a Hollow is basically a soul gone corrupt there are still fragments and memories of the sane soul left within that Hollow (as proved by Ichigo's very first Hollow encounter, and the 6th Espada (with the two heads floating in that test-tube) who used memories of the shinigami and hollow it had devoured to replicated Kein and force Rukia into an almost hysterical state.
So basically I'm saying that, what if someone (I'm not going to say Urahara specifically because it never said anywhere that he founded the whole hollowfication technique, and if it did I missed it and I apologize) after finding out that these captains that are being slaughtered, instead of them just winding up dead they (somehow) had already made the change to Hollow, but it wasn't for a long enough amount of time that they had utterly lost their sainity and it was possible to revert them back? But not completly, so then they still have the ability to harness the hollow still inside themselves? Just a thought. I figured if we all end up focusing strongly on what's happening RIGHT this instant in the manga we might miss something from before that could hint at what's happening.
We haven't seen Ichigo's father turn up anywhere yet either. So it's possible he has something to do with this. (Although I have to doubt that he's the guy running around killing everyone)
So basically I'm saying that, what if someone (I'm not going to say Urahara specifically because it never said anywhere that he founded the whole hollowfication technique, and if it did I missed it and I apologize) after finding out that these captains that are being slaughtered, instead of them just winding up dead they (somehow) had already made the change to Hollow, but it wasn't for a long enough amount of time that they had utterly lost their sainity and it was possible to revert them back? But not completly, so then they still have the ability to harness the hollow still inside themselves? Just a thought. I figured if we all end up focusing strongly on what's happening RIGHT this instant in the manga we might miss something from before that could hint at what's happening.
We haven't seen Ichigo's father turn up anywhere yet either. So it's possible he has something to do with this. (Although I have to doubt that he's the guy running around killing everyone)
Member1:20 pm, May 13 2008
Posts: 9026
Nope~
The 10th and 11th Divisions are still mysteries. >_<
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The 10th and 11th Divisions are still mysteries. >_<
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sleepy ghost
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1:40 pm, May 13 2008
Posts: 1140
Quote from BimboSilly
Quote from pamc_kel
In order to save the shinigami's lives who are in critical condition such as Kensei if he indeed sustain a huge damage after the surprise attack thus urahara turned them into a vaizard is what your'e. But how? When urahara used the gigai's he is experimenting so that the wounded shinigami will be able to recover while wearing the same? If this is the case then the vaizards became as such was not due to hougyoku after all. I'm not sure about this theory since the battle with aizen is all because hougyoku but who knows, this theory or part of this theory might be correct.
I actually quite agree with your hypothesis..I do believe Urahara made them into Vizards because a probably Near Death situation for all these people, the thing that mystifies me(I almost never follow Bleach until I stumbled on this flashback arc) is that if teh Vizards were the cream of Gotei 13 at one point, why were they kept under wraps for so long? I mean none of teh current Gotei 13 mentions them..And unless I have missed something, I didnt see the then head of teh 10th Division...suppose that is Ichigo's father, then ? ;) still, I dont think all divisions have been shown in the Pendulum arc...I am interested in seeing more familiar faces..
;) I personally disagree with the near death scenario. For one thing, Urahara said his new gigai was to prevent a soul from disappearing due to instability in spiritual constitution, not for a life and death situation. It would be more logical to get Unohana or a prominent 4th division healer (for lack of a better word) to heal a person than transfer their soul into a new body. That isn't the case for Kensei and company. Personally, I think the Hokyouko serves one simple purpose: power. Urahara has previously developed techniques for getting uber-powerful extremely fast, as evident in his Ban Kai training technique and how he made Ichigo from normal powerless soul to shinigami. What's to say that the hogyouku is anything different?
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Member8:23 am, May 14 2008
Posts: 9026
SPOILER:
Not really detailed, but oh well~
Lots of appearances though.
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Spoiler (highlight to view)
We see the Kidou Corps leader
The Kidou head is Tessai
Hachi is the assistant (vice)
They will be Kensei’s opponents
Ukitake: “Tessai Tsukabishi?... going out after all this time..”
Those to go to the actual scene are
Rose
Hirako
Love
Hachi
Risa
Kensei has transformed into a monster and attacks Hiyori as Hirako is arriving at the scene to help her.
The Kidou head is Tessai
Hachi is the assistant (vice)
They will be Kensei’s opponents
Ukitake: “Tessai Tsukabishi?... going out after all this time..”
Those to go to the actual scene are
Rose
Hirako
Love
Hachi
Risa
Kensei has transformed into a monster and attacks Hiyori as Hirako is arriving at the scene to help her.
Not really detailed, but oh well~
Lots of appearances though.Spoiler (highlight to view)
Seems like all the Vizards have gathered into one spot. I think this will be it. The decisive moment that'll turn them into Vizards.
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8:38 am, May 14 2008
Posts: 155
Quote from Dr. Love
SPOILER:
Not really detailed, but oh well~ Lots of appearances though.
Spoiler (highlight to view)
We see the Kidou Corps leader
The Kidou head is Tessai
Hachi is the assistant (vice)
They will be Kensei’s opponents
Ukitake: “Tessai Tsukabishi?... going out after all this time..”
Those to go to the actual scene are
Rose
Hirako
Love
Hachi
Risa
Kensei has transformed into a monster and attacks Hiyori as Hirako is arriving at the scene to help her.
The Kidou head is Tessai
Hachi is the assistant (vice)
They will be Kensei’s opponents
Ukitake: “Tessai Tsukabishi?... going out after all this time..”
Those to go to the actual scene are
Rose
Hirako
Love
Hachi
Risa
Kensei has transformed into a monster and attacks Hiyori as Hirako is arriving at the scene to help her.
Not really detailed, but oh well~
Lots of appearances though.Spoiler (highlight to view)
Seems like all the Vizards have gathered into one spot. I think this will be it. The decisive moment that'll turn them into Vizards.
Thanks for the spoiler. This is too good. As my choice in the poll is the first choice, at least i got this right. Maybe they all become a monster but urahara help them in a way by turning them into a vaizard. At least now that they are vaizards and not totally a monster.
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Could I ever merge with somebody's heart,
Like the way the rain merges the sky and earth,
Never meant to connect...
Crikey!
Member2:57 pm, May 14 2008
Posts: 1308
On that note, when Kaien(I think that was his name) was transformed into a monster, Kisuke not being there might have resulted in his ultimate irrevocable..um...wanting-to-die situation....so in history might have been kinder to the Vizards...but this is just me talking with too little info so feel free to ignore this
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Member8:50 am, May 15 2008
Posts: 9026
More details~ ;P
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Spoiler (highlight to view)
Bleach -102: Turn Back the Pendulum 7
Continues from the last chapter, the meeting is held with every captain has attended except Urahara. Yamamoto explained about the situation regarding the disappearance of Kensei and Mashiro. He said this is the most dangerous situation ever happened in Soul Society.
Yamamoto was about the pick 5 captains to go the crime scene when Urahara finally arrived and asked Yamamoto to send him to the scene. But Yamamoto rejected his request which he yelled out that his Vice-Captain is there. However, Yoruichi screamed at him saying Hiyori was picked by Urahara himself. So now something happened and Urahara is all shaking, it would be like he looked down at Hiyori. Her words silenced Urahara.
Yamamoto ordered 3rd Division Captain, Otoribashi Rojuji (Rose’s real name); 5th Division Captain, Hirako Shinji; 7th Division Captain, Aikawa Love, to go to the scene. He then ordered Shunsui, Ukitake and Kuchiki Ginrei to protect Seireitei. Unohana was ordered to stand by in her division in case of emergency. Unohana protested that there might be injuries so she should go as well. Yamanoto said they don’t know the situation so the medic division should just stand by. He added that he already arranged someone to go instead.
Yamamoto called out for that someone to enter the hall.
The figures that entered the hall were of Tsukabashi Tessai, the head of the Kidou Corp. and Ushoda Hachigen, his Vice. Ukitake called out that he hasn’t seen Tessai show up for a while. Yamamoto ordered them to go immediately when Shunsui protested that since they do not know the situation at the scene, it is too dangerous for both Head and the Vice of Kidou Corp to go. Shunsui then said they should send his Vice Captain and he called out, “Risa-Chaaaan”
Risa immediately showed up at the window and Shunsui told her that she shouldn’t be eavesdropping on a Captain's meeting. She protested that it's human instinct to want to know what is hidden from them. Shunsui asked if she heard what he said and she nodded. He asked if she could help them. She gave him a thumb up and left.
Yamamoto said Shunsui just does what he wanted again but he gave an excuse that something this big doesn’t happen often, this is an opportunity for them to gain some experience. He then confirmed that Risa is capable. He then asked Tessai if it’s ok and he accepted before leaving the room.
So now the team consisted of 3 Captains, Hachigen and Yadoruma Risa.
Urahara still looked very worried so Shunsui cheered him up that Hiyori-chan is good, although not as good as Risa.
“So don’t make that worried face. To trust and wait is also a Captain’s job”. But Urahara couldn’t hide how worried he was.
A scene cut to Hiyori who was now running away from something. ‘It’ attacked her but she managed to dodge although she now got a cut on her eyebrow.
When it about to give Hiyori a final blow, something hit that figure and Hirako appeared between Hiyori and the figure. Hiyori called him but he yelled, “Are you stupid? Why don’t you use your sword?”
“Are you stupid? Who can use it?” She screamed back.
Hirako was confused until he turned back to look at the figure. He was shock to see what was in front of him and all he could say was, “Kensei!!!?”
Continues from the last chapter, the meeting is held with every captain has attended except Urahara. Yamamoto explained about the situation regarding the disappearance of Kensei and Mashiro. He said this is the most dangerous situation ever happened in Soul Society.
Yamamoto was about the pick 5 captains to go the crime scene when Urahara finally arrived and asked Yamamoto to send him to the scene. But Yamamoto rejected his request which he yelled out that his Vice-Captain is there. However, Yoruichi screamed at him saying Hiyori was picked by Urahara himself. So now something happened and Urahara is all shaking, it would be like he looked down at Hiyori. Her words silenced Urahara.
Yamamoto ordered 3rd Division Captain, Otoribashi Rojuji (Rose’s real name); 5th Division Captain, Hirako Shinji; 7th Division Captain, Aikawa Love, to go to the scene. He then ordered Shunsui, Ukitake and Kuchiki Ginrei to protect Seireitei. Unohana was ordered to stand by in her division in case of emergency. Unohana protested that there might be injuries so she should go as well. Yamanoto said they don’t know the situation so the medic division should just stand by. He added that he already arranged someone to go instead.
Yamamoto called out for that someone to enter the hall.
The figures that entered the hall were of Tsukabashi Tessai, the head of the Kidou Corp. and Ushoda Hachigen, his Vice. Ukitake called out that he hasn’t seen Tessai show up for a while. Yamamoto ordered them to go immediately when Shunsui protested that since they do not know the situation at the scene, it is too dangerous for both Head and the Vice of Kidou Corp to go. Shunsui then said they should send his Vice Captain and he called out, “Risa-Chaaaan”
Risa immediately showed up at the window and Shunsui told her that she shouldn’t be eavesdropping on a Captain's meeting. She protested that it's human instinct to want to know what is hidden from them. Shunsui asked if she heard what he said and she nodded. He asked if she could help them. She gave him a thumb up and left.
Yamamoto said Shunsui just does what he wanted again but he gave an excuse that something this big doesn’t happen often, this is an opportunity for them to gain some experience. He then confirmed that Risa is capable. He then asked Tessai if it’s ok and he accepted before leaving the room.
So now the team consisted of 3 Captains, Hachigen and Yadoruma Risa.
Urahara still looked very worried so Shunsui cheered him up that Hiyori-chan is good, although not as good as Risa.
“So don’t make that worried face. To trust and wait is also a Captain’s job”. But Urahara couldn’t hide how worried he was.
A scene cut to Hiyori who was now running away from something. ‘It’ attacked her but she managed to dodge although she now got a cut on her eyebrow.
When it about to give Hiyori a final blow, something hit that figure and Hirako appeared between Hiyori and the figure. Hiyori called him but he yelled, “Are you stupid? Why don’t you use your sword?”
“Are you stupid? Who can use it?” She screamed back.
Hirako was confused until he turned back to look at the figure. He was shock to see what was in front of him and all he could say was, “Kensei!!!?”
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9:02 am, May 15 2008
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9:02 am, May 15 2008
Posts: 42
Ahh it does look lk here is where they all turn into Vizards since they have all gathered here... o.o
Member
9:17 am, May 15 2008
Posts: 155
Fabulous awesome new chapter, thanks dr.love.
Because hiyori and shinji knows kensei thus they hesitated in using a sword although in this chapter we only know that hiyori is the one holding back, we don't know with shinji yet. I still think that urahara help them and in the process turned them into a vaizard. Maybe this is where the use of hougyoku comes in since i believe that the use of hougyoku stabilize the monster that they have become. They still have a monster inside them but they look like human/shinigami still. Just like what the arrancars are now, hollow/monsters with human form. Also Unohana's skills may not be enough to cure the monster that Kensei have become, thus Urahara come to the rescue.
Last edited by pamc_kel at 9:29 am, May 15 2008
________________
If I were the rain.....
Could I ever merge with somebody's heart,
Like the way the rain merges the sky and earth,
Never meant to connect...
Because hiyori and shinji knows kensei thus they hesitated in using a sword although in this chapter we only know that hiyori is the one holding back, we don't know with shinji yet. I still think that urahara help them and in the process turned them into a vaizard. Maybe this is where the use of hougyoku comes in since i believe that the use of hougyoku stabilize the monster that they have become. They still have a monster inside them but they look like human/shinigami still. Just like what the arrancars are now, hollow/monsters with human form. Also Unohana's skills may not be enough to cure the monster that Kensei have become, thus Urahara come to the rescue.
Last edited by pamc_kel at 9:29 am, May 15 2008
________________
If I were the rain.....
Could I ever merge with somebody's heart,
Like the way the rain merges the sky and earth,
Never meant to connect...
Member9:23 am, May 15 2008
Posts: 9026
Urahara will probably feel guilty, so that's why he saved them, and turned them into Vizards?
Bcuz I think Kensei is a Hollow now, just like Ichigo was when he was in full Hollow form. And only strong souls seems to transform in that kind of Hollow form? Since the other(weak) ones seem to dissipate into nothingness.
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Bcuz I think Kensei is a Hollow now, just like Ichigo was when he was in full Hollow form. And only strong souls seems to transform in that kind of Hollow form? Since the other(weak) ones seem to dissipate into nothingness.
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Smooth Operator
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9:24 am, May 15 2008
Posts: 5329
Quote from innocence-xox
Ahh it does look lk here is where they all turn into Vizards since they have all gathered here... o.o
Just because they have all gathered together doesn't mean that they all turn into Vizards here. Plausible? yes. Likely? Maybe.
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Quote from Dr. Love
Bcuz I think Kensei is a Hollow now, just like Ichigo was when he was in full Hollow form. And only strong souls seems to transform in that kind of Hollow form? Since the other(weak) ones seem to dissipate into nothingness.
Have anyone asked this question already, hope this is not off topic. Did urahara's training turned ichigo into a vaizard or ichigo's inherent power is that of a vaizard already? I'm just confused since during urahara's conversation with isshin, urahara mentioned that the vaizards indeed contacted ichigo as soon as ichigo returned from soul society which means that even isshin knows (or maybe i'm just assuming that isshin knows) that ichigo is a vaizard. Just for the sake of discussion, if ichigo's inherent power is that of a vaizard, why does he have such power? Whether inherent power or not, i hope we can get some answers in this flashback arc.
________________
If I were the rain.....
Could I ever merge with somebody's heart,
Like the way the rain merges the sky and earth,
Never meant to connect...
Member
1:38 pm, May 16 2008
Posts: 6
1:38 pm, May 16 2008
Posts: 6
Quote from pamc_kel
Quote from Dr. Love
Bcuz I think Kensei is a Hollow now, just like Ichigo was when he was in full Hollow form. And only strong souls seems to transform in that kind of Hollow form? Since the other(weak) ones seem to dissipate into nothingness.
Have anyone asked this question already, hope this is not off topic. Did urahara's training turned ichigo into a vaizard or ichigo's inherent power is that of a vaizard already? I'm just confused since during urahara's conversation with isshin, urahara mentioned that the vaizards indeed contacted ichigo as soon as ichigo returned from soul society which means that even isshin knows (or maybe i'm just assuming that isshin knows) that ichigo is a vaizard. Just for the sake of discussion, if ichigo's inherent power is that of a vaizard, why does he have such power? Whether inherent power or not, i hope we can get some answers in this flashback arc.
Urahara's training started Ichigo's transformation in a sense, but Urahara's training didn't acctually make Ichigo into a Vizarde. Remember at that point and all through the Saving-Rukia arc the hollow side of him was always trying to get out, bothing Ichigo mentally and taking over when Ichigo all but passed out. Urahara's training sent him into a state that needed help before he fully became a Hollow, and the answer to this was with the Vizardes, who then taught him how to master the Hollow in his soul and attain the power they have.
So, no. Urahara's training didn't directly change Ichigo into a Hollow, but without Urahara's training he most likely never would have, unless he became a Hollow by other means. It really depends on exactly how you want to look at the situation though.
