Oh boi , i was talking todau with a friend about classic VS topics that enrage or similar people , like "Windows vs OS X vs Gnu/Linux" or "Coca Cola vs Pepsi vs Dr Pepper" or "Console peasants vs PC master race" or the new hype trains with movies "DC vs Marvel" , welp it follow me all the way here too , eh?
This topic is quite a nostalgia boner to me , just like many kids growing up in the late 80s early 90s most exposure was by the cartoons on tv , in my case the classics like Amazing Spiderman , X-Men TAS , Batman TAS , yadayada but it wasnt until i was a teen when i started reading some comics and question the heroes on said cartoons/comics mainly since at that time cartoon like the Justice League and Teen titans tried to blur the line with the so black and white ideology some cartoons had in my opinion .
I was going to write about how i grow to hate Superman because how damn overpowered he is , excluding kryptonite and/or the sun what else weaks him? but then i remember me that live action tv show , my first one about a comic book heroe as far i remember that makes me have a love/hate relationship with Superman , yes that one being .... Smallville , did someone here saw it and what are your thoughts on similar tv shows ?
My favorite actor was Michael Rosenbaum acting as Lex Luthor , in my opinion he pretty much sold the entire tv show to me , also interesting enough he is the one who voice Barry Allen / The Flash in Justice League: Doom.

Now about the DC vs Marvel topic again , welp by the time i was teen i stopped to like idealistic heroes with Black and White mentalities , even though i really really like Batman ,not only growing up with Batman TAS but because he was the first human/powerless one to join the Justice League and he always kicked ass without the need to have superpowers and make use of his intellect and sometimes gadgets to get stuff done but i have never liked the never ever not to kill rule , really? im not asking for him to go to a killing spree but i think more than once alot stuff could have been prevented if he put down someone , the same goes for marvels similar Spiderman but unlike batman as far i knows Spiderman has his antithesis and my still favorite Marvel character , of course Deadpool , now someone here say about his lack of remorse and that is true ... mostly , as far i remember in his comic he doesnt show remorse to other villains/bandits but is not like he lacks emotions , even though he is most of the time insane but i remember reading some of his comics where from time to time you can still see his human nature deep all the insanity of his mind .

Last edited by SLYSHK at 8:55 pm, Dec 13 2015

My honest answer would be neither. Image blows both of them right out of the water in regards to quality. Editorial mandates are really killing both DC and Marvel. DC has apparently gotten better with this recently, but my interest in DC faded quickly after the Nu52. And I cannot say that I will read any of the post-Secret Wars Marvel titles.

@drunkguy You may enjoy the latest Thor issue as Odin decided to hunt the fake Thor down and reducing the real on to his unworthy roots is the best exploration of the character in years. He has to ripen into the Once and Future King after all! She isn´t even the first (female) usurper as even Wonder Woman wielded the hammer and who could forget Beta Ray Bill. JMS´ Thor also technically started during his final stretch on Spidy. Moving on.

Fraction´s Eisner winning The Invincible Iron Man is a near masterpiece. His current comic is perfectly fine too and pretty to look at so let´s hope that the Bendis curse of petering out won´t strike. The way he undid all of his Avengers run after 200+ issue and the way his X-men recently crashed weren´t fun at all. I also suspect that the Iron Man hype will ebb down after Downey´s last hurrah in the Infinity War due to his exploding paycheck. A certain Spider is back in town after all and i am curious what Spidy´s films will do to his comic.
The originating comic for the Thanos conflict was good but villain is no Darkseid and the Parademons "Knightmare" vision in the latest BvS tailer has me very excited for the Justice League 2 parter. In Snyder i trust!

I am actualy back as i forgot to point out JLA/Avengers
Both companies had a few aright crossovers since the 70s and the whole DC vs. Marvel / Amalgam crap in the 90s that at least lead to a few good team-up one-shots.
Most of the recommendable one´s unsurprisingly involved Batman and JLA/Avengers was the culmination of it all before the companies started to hate each other. It has 11/10 art by Teen Titans giant George Pérez and Busiek´s writing contrasts the 2 universes rather well.

Edit: @SLYSHK Smallville (10 seasons WTF!) was utter crap but the i can recommend the uneven Arrow (S.2 is the best) and the sublime Flash. Supergirl is only alright as of now so i am playing the waiting game before i jump back on.
Marvel´s Agent Carter, Daredevil and Jessica Jones are a must but Shield is a convoluted sleeping aid which i quit 3 times and i am beyond done with it. I further listed all the good original DC Universe Animated Original Movies on page 94 of our movie thread.
Ask away regarding older shows if you want. Now on to the Bat.
Fox´s Gotham is the definition of insanity so everyone´s mileage may vary (7,5/10 from me) but most episodes managed to entertain me. The comic further fudged the no kill rule from time to time but Bruce´s version of Batman would immediately stop to make sense if he became a true man-hunter. The police would never be able to work with him again for one and he would loose the support of half of the Bat-family. He would also become nearly unrecognizable from his own villains who can be put into the Anti-Batman camp.
Or darker anti-heroes as Azrael, Catwoman, Grifter, Midnighter, Red Hood or even the Punisher who is my 2nd favorite comic "hero". Bruce can also torture with the best of them and half of the Bat family are reformed murderers so you will find a darling amongst them.
PS: I hope that we can agree that Thor´s "new sister" Angela ended up sucking drunkguy.

Last edited by residentgrigo at 7:43 am, Dec 14 2015

________________
I also read EU/US comics and am a librarian.
Manga-Masters, My ANN-Lists + Imdb

I won't be bothering with anymore Thor for a while. 8 issues of face palming were enough.

I'm leery of awards given to comics. I trust them about as much as I trust video game reviews or a Grammy for heavy metal.

I stopped keeping a close eye on Iron Man after Siege. The whole brain reset thing to pre-civil war rubbed me the wrong way. I'd rather he died again and someone else took up the mantle. Even the abusive ex-boyfriend robot would have been an interesting replacement. At least that would have justified an eventual Stark return since the crazy suit would have had no qualms about cloning him. They regressed too many characters to status quo in less than brilliant ways before the "Heroic" age.

His having a one night stand with Mariah Hill didn't improve my already low opinion of him after CW either. The idea of him adding MJ to the notches on his belt also doesn't help.

Agreed on Thanos being no match for Darkseid. Thanos always struck me as a perpetual loser compared to Darkseid who is a no-nonsense ruler and a tyrant.

@drunkguy He also had sex with Pepper during the same time frame and both found out. It got ugly! He even fell off the wagon later and "mind wiped" Tony wasn´t really reset as he immediately started doing the same mistakes and even admitted that he would do everything all over again after digging though his recent past. His preceding "battle" against the Goblin/Iron Patriot in his original silver tin-can suit was fuhrer one of the greatest matches in all of comics as the brain damaged Stark never managed to land even one punch! It was like an even more pathetic remake of Azrael vs Batman or Batman vs Bane. Knightfall and Dark Knight Rises were a bit different you all...
That goes for the comics vs films/shows in general.

@AceBunneh Both shafted Alan Moore quite a bit and he despises both now.
Before Watchmen (4 times longer than the original and mostly as pointless as it sounds) was the latest insult and Marvel´s just republished Marvelman had to be credited to the "original author" . DC is apparently hell bent on using his script outline for the Twilight of the Superheroes event from the late 80s. I read and liked it (it´s as dark as it sounds) but Moore will truly curse them if that finally ends up happening.
What a man, what a wizard and what a legend! (Any more questions?)

________________
I also read EU/US comics and am a librarian.
Manga-Masters, My ANN-Lists + Imdb

I'm voting DC purely due to the Vertigo imprint. I'm a huge fan of a good number of their series.

I grew up reading

Conan[all versions]
Hulk
Spiderman
x-men
wolverine
and later on lots and lots more

i reaLly liked spiderman TAS90s

and i loved all the Capcom made marvel games
especially MvC1and2 back when those showed up

Marvel IMO wins by KO in less than 1sec vs DC

only DC related thing i have liked is Lois and Clark

I haven't read enough of the comics to really know proper timelines of the heroes and villains in either universe, but I do know a decent amount of at least background info to an extent.

I've grown up with Marvel's Ultimate Alliance both 1 + 2, which I definitely had tons of fun playing back then. I knew about most of the characters before playing the games, but I don't seem to remember where specifically I knew about em. Maybe it was the cartoon shows on in the Morning or just too much time on my hands searching the web for random shit...

A good number of Batman's villains I really do have a special place in my heart for individually, like ManBat, Killer Croc, Poison Ivy, Bane, Clayface, etc., but those are the ones I mainly enjoy coming outta DC.

So I guess I'm more in favor of Marvel, but definitely not in a stance of "inferior vs superior," just personal preference of which I've connected with more growing up...

I just read Marvel´s long delayed finale to Secret War and they mostly turned the ship around. Congrats on your first good line wide even since 2006/07.
(Wiki counts the space, Spider-man and X-men crossovers as "events" but i disagree.)
2016´s Secret Wars II looks a bit problematic but we will see and it´s kind of fascinating how DC´s 2015 event Convergence managed to be so abysmal yet half of the tie-ins were straight out great. Secret War though had abysmal tie-ins (the whole line mostly stopped for half a year where DC only dared 2 months...) yet the story stands tall in the end and is lastly a decent send off for the FF too. For now.

Walking Dead 150 was still the best comic of the week so none of them can beat Image in the end . That is something i love about US comics.The new books come out every Wednesday so i get to cerebrate my hobby once a week like clockwork. 72 Days until BvS.

Edit: Commando back. Superman: American Alien #3 by Max "Hollywood" Landis is this week´s best comic. This should be the new origin of the New 52 Superman but Morrison´s version in Action Comics was good too. You win again DC!

Last edited by residentgrigo at 9:23 am, Jan 13 2016

________________
I also read EU/US comics and am a librarian.
Manga-Masters, My ANN-Lists + Imdb

I think I'm going to go Marvel on this. My favorite super hero is Spider-man and I have really enjoyed some of the MCU's movies like the winter soldier and guardians of the galaxy.
Even though I've seen most of the batman movies since childhood. Lately I've gotten more interested in DC thanks to The Flash tv show and I'm really looking forward to batman vs superman, but all in all Marvel wins for me.

Get cough up with these FLASH Facts and the comic is as bonkers as it sounds.
Kevin Smith (problematic guy but he gets all the guests) had one of the show-runners on ep. 103 of Fat Man on Batman and he is set to direct an episode. Hm. Barry´s New 52 comic is above average with the art being the highlight. The best Flash comic runs were by Mark Waid (he created the Speedforce) in the 90s and by Geoff Johns (DC´s top dog and the Rouges writer) in the 00s. Both are wildly lauded as being the best and are easily available. They may be about Wally yet they also serve as the main inspiration for the show and i even watched the decent 90s show back in the day. Wally>Barry.

Kevin also had Grant Morrison on the podcast who is my No.1 writer of all time.
If this clip can´t convince you all that Bruce Wayne is the best fictional character of the 20th century than i don´t know what will. An interview super-cut is on the right.

Edit: Isn´t this Cracked article something? Written before both "rebooted". Final Crisis was a winner though but also too complex for what it was supposed to be and Bruce also won against Darkseid in the JLU toon.

Last edited by residentgrigo at 3:09 pm, Jan 22 2016

________________
I also read EU/US comics and am a librarian.
Manga-Masters, My ANN-Lists + Imdb

I can't decide which one should I support. Batman animated series was my childhood though, I have seen almost equal amount of movies from both studios.

Come to think of it, when I was a child I wished to be an artist of never ending comic series and assumed stories always end. The day I learn about Detective Comics and Action Comics, I thought "wow, they are amazing!".

________________

I've always been a Marvel girl, ever since I can remember. And while I loved Nolan's Batman films (and Batman's universe in general), I still prefer Marvel.

Frank Miller wrote the last Batman tale with DKR but it had to go on and that universe is now an unrecognizable shit show. The X-men had the averted Days of Future Past but that narrative had to go on too and... You all get it i guess.
Pre-Crisis Superman got a "real" last story by Alan Moore, Curt Swan (The most important Superman artist) and Julius Schwartz (the DC editor) with Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow. Neil Gaiman and Andy Kubert´s Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader is an equally brilliant spiritual sequel for Bruce .


Marvel had a mostly interesting The End line but these were dark deconstructions and not celebrations as the name suggests.

I really liked it when Geoff Johns recently ended his legendary Green Lantern run with a prolonged out of continuity epilogue so these can even work within a long form story but Batman and Robin Will Never die! Oh, i did that already.

________________
I also read EU/US comics and am a librarian.
Manga-Masters, My ANN-Lists + Imdb

Below is my Imdb review for the Certified Rotten Batman v Superman. I waited 20 years to see it and the internet now treats the film as the mother of all dumpster fires . Why am i even surprised? I fuhrer greatly enjoyed the 2nd season of Daredevil (10/10) and DC´s Rebirth plans will be fully revealed tomorrow. I will post a link if i see an especially comprehensible explanation for this soft-ish reboot but back to BvS. The film´s box office future is still to be written but it is a monumental joining of the 2 bestselling comics of all time on the big screen and an event 75+ years in the making. (Both sold more than One Piece but are also way older). I would like to know if i am the only MU regular with an opinion on the landmark film.

People fear what they don't understand + the Ultimate Cut
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2975590/reviews-717
I consider Sucker Punch to be Snyder's only bad film, view the Ultimate Cut of Watchmen as one of the best adaptations of all time and adore the source material, so this film is tailor made for me. Especially due to my love for the utterly daring and highly polarizing Man of Steel. I also understand where some (but not all!) of the mixed reviews are coming from but share few of their opinions. First with the bad:
The film has a few rather weird editing choices and some scenes, as the juicy Justice League montage, need to be placed differently. The film is also too short despite being 2,5 hours long. I also expected a longer final battle, a proper introduction to Batman's power suit, a stronger acknowledgment of how much carnage the 2 cities undergo at the end and less cutaways from the constant violence in general. There is also 1 scene of Superman in peril too many towards the end but i won't go into spoilers. Some of these issues should be fixed with the longer/R-rated Director's Cut and i would have preferred more Darkseid teasers. None of these complains took away from my enjoyment and i was BLOWN AWAY by everything else. The film features top of the line directing and the best score Hans Zimmer/Junkie XL ever composed. The well-constructed script explained all the clashing ideologies very well and is downright Nolan-esque, due to the continued involvement of mastermind David Goyer. Every single performance is some of the finest acting the A-level cast put on film. Especially Jesse Eisenberg! His psychotic and utterly unhinged Lex Luthor outshines even Heath Ledger. Gal Gadot is another standout and shows how well cast and though out the whole DCEU truly is. Now to the titular heroes:

Ben Affleck matches Christian Bale and Kevin Konroy as being a definitive take on the character but don't expect him to be "likable". His version is a Frank Miller Batman gone too far and the film is a clear redemption arc for the bitter warrior. Some will be turned off by his high body count and his deeply flawed tunnel vision but that is the whole point of the film and especially the ending. Henry Cavill's Superman is again on point and presents a tragic take on John Byrne's and more importantly Dan Jurgens' iconic version. I now repeatedly mentioned the source material but this film is an adaptation first and foremost, unlike the MCU competition. I am also a fan of their highly different films, which constantly veer off the source material, but back on track. The mentioned creators (and many more) are proudly listed in the credits and produced some of the most iconic and bestselling comics of all time. I highly suggest looking them up, after digesting this monumental epic, and the film adapted way more of The Dark Knight Returns than i ever expected. This brings me to the film's one glaring and fascinating "problem". The films should be near incomprehensible to non-comic readers and may be the first 200+ million film that goes out it's way to target an adult and comic literate audience! Young children, family audiences and casual fans are destined to hate this film and i am not even sure if i can call it a "mainstream" movie. The pacing is more comparable to a cerebral thriller and the whole product is a blatant deconstruction of messianic ideals, which will offend many on principle alone. A true Twilight of the Superheroes. The best cinematic comparison i can make is the equally busy and enjoyable The Dark Knight Rises, which managed to forgo this film's troubling reception due to the lack of fantastical elements, and Excalibur (1981). I further believe that all of Zack Snyder's current Superhero adaptations got unfair scrutiny because they dared to go beyond preconceived notions of what a big budget comic adaptation should be and hope that a future generations will reassess them and join me in the sun. I can only conclude that i view the film as a complete and utter creative successes, despite a few sharp edges here and there. I also hope that this daring film will lead to more creativity and equal risks down the line, from all competitors on the market. The DCU weight on the right shoulders and it's future is now in the hands of the fans, as never before. The film often asks if there must be a Superman. I say YES and visionaries and as Synder, Terrio and Goyer need to lead them. So vote with your money if you want to see these creators unleash Apokolips on earth, or stay at home. 8,5/10, with the possibility of a 9/10 with the upcoming Director's Cut.

Update: BvS thankfully proved a success, the Ultimate Cut finally restored the original vision, while converting many, and helped to save Snyder's unethically tarnished reputation. The less dreamlike editing makes the film look bigger, the frequent amount of restored adult content underlines the general tone but small "new" character moments are the most important change. Clark's fleshed out life, who strictly walks the earth like a man, and the explored machinations of Lex should have NEVER been cut. Multiple characterizations, as Wallace, are refocused and explored. A prophetic Gordian Knot discussion, my demanded Fourth World teaser and many more such scenes offer foreshadowing galore. Little detail as Mercy's love smitten smile, Martha's waving to Batman and the continued political commentary MAKE this film, as the devil is in the details. The added sweeping shots though an empty Metropolis and the last few Smallville scenes especially touched me. This is a lived in universe, where humans actually matter (the extras are shockingly good!) and not an empty CGI wasteland. The TC is now demoted by 0,5. Bury it. UC BvS though finally stands as the best US comic film after 2012's animated DKR film. Bring on JLA, Kryton and the rest. Ain't No Stoppin' Us Now! 9,5/10

Last edited by residentgrigo at 1:54 pm, Aug 8 2016

________________
I also read EU/US comics and am a librarian.
Manga-Masters, My ANN-Lists + Imdb