I doubt.

Oh, really? I'll have to tell that to my brother, who has a PhD in organic chemistry; my step-sister, who's getting her MDPhD at Harvard (fully funded), and my step-brother, who's been working as a programmer for the past ~15 years; I'm not so distinguished but that's mainly/only due to my own lack of interest/motivation. All four of us went through the same public school system (not a particularly wealthy or prestigious one), which just reinforces my feeling that you get out of school pretty much what you put into it.

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Well they do need to keep those kids off the streets. But for the kids who arent cut out for the content of a normal education, they need to place them in schools that will get them started on a career as soon as they become adults. Having kids in a school who arent there with the mindset of at least graduating is a hinderence to the education system, nothing good comes of forcing kids to go to a school when they will have nothing to show for it later, its a waste of funding that could otherwise be spent improving the education of those who are there with the intention to learn. It would also cut down on overcrowing of the classrooms as well since more teachers would be available to teach classes.

That's what Technical School is for. We have one in our area. It teaches everything from Dentistry to Cooking to Auto Care to Radio Broadcast. I considered going there, and dropping some highschool classes but decided that a 3 hour day at Community College and dropping all of my high school classes would be better.

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Well I know they have technical schools. But they arent promoted enough to the kids who would probably end up better off if they went there, plus there is still the pushing for a high school education on those kids whom it honestly wouldnt benefit.

Well, in order to push technical schools, there needs to be one in the area. That is where the problem is. Our city was blessed with a technical school, a community college, and a branch of the state university, so me and every other kid in the city are pretty much set. Not everyone is so lucky.

The reason they push highschool is because having a diploma shows that you have the basic minimum level of skills needed to survive (like breathing autonomously, counting to 10, and not choking on you tongue). No matter what you do in life, you need a bare minimum of education, and highschool is meant to be that bare minimum. How do you expect to learn to fix a car if you don't know basic math? Wrenches have numbers on them too.

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oh well, i studied in a french system so i have no idea about the US. But i do know that in US they dont teach philosophy, geography and history after 11th year (not too sure about the geo-hist thing). But I know that philosophy is ESSENTIAL to the developpment of young minds.
Math, Chemistry and physics r very important but there is a need for the mind to developp its artistic side.


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You learn all the math you should need to fix a car by at least middle school, probably elementary school really. A technical school would teach them how to apply that math and whatever else the know to fixing a car as well as giving them the actual skills necessary as well. A high school diploma is really just a piece of paper that says I completed a bunch of classes that were of at least middle school level difficulty, and could pass a standardized test that required little above a 5th grade reading math level to score well on and barely that in order to pass, at least thats how the system works where I am from.

Essentially a high school diploma from Florida is essentially meaningless when it comes to indicating your level of knowledge.


Well it doesnt quite work like that, classes are often a lot more take your pick of what you want in the US. I think thats the best way to put it. I could take history my last year of High School or my second, but for the most part you can take any class you want as long as you meet the prerequisites for it and while there are graduation requirements, they are rather loose, like 2 history classes, 3 math classes, 2 science classes, 4 english classes and a bunch of other classes in whatever you feel like. Thats pretty much minimum requirements. And even then those requirements vary for every state.

Problem: Not everyone is artistic.

Besides, so few people have the capacity to understand Philosophy that it's just a waste of money. If you really care, then it's available in college (I plan to take it eventually, once I get all of my highschool pre-requisites through with)

We don't learn geo after 11th because we are busy taking Senior Literature, Government, and American History.

That's what I was getting at. When I said minimum, I meant minimum. Passing highschool is hardly an achievement. It's there to prove that you're not retarded, which is becoming an increasingly important aspect of today's world.

You can attend a technical school while attending highschool, and the classes count for highschool credit. That's what my friend is doing. He's taking the autoshop class. Another friend is taking radio broadcasting. Both are great choices for their individual personalities and interests, but it's not perfect. One of them can't write a proper paragraph and doesn't even know how to spell 'literature'. The other one is socially overbearing and chronically independable. I'm not saying that highschool is great, but damn, some people wouldn't know how to tie their shoes if they didn't go. It doesn't help any that elementary school only prepares you for middle school, which only prepares you to take a bi-yearly standardized test, leaving you pretty much 'tarded when they throw you into highschool, which has more bi-early standardized tests, plus a big standardized test that defines your intelligence for the rest of your life.

Last edited by lambchopsil at 2:29 pm, Jun 2 2008

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There's a reason philosophy isn't on most high school's class rosters. If it is indeed an art class then that means it'd be an elective class. Even if an art class or two are a prerequisite, there are better art classes out there. Back when I was in hs we had your classic art class, digital art, CAD, CAM, wood carving/jewelery making(playing with molten semi-precious metals is indeed fun), mexican dance, band and theater. All of those sound more fun and less taxing on the brain than philosophy. There was also yearbook and journalism classes. I almost forgot about photo class.

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I sort of disagree with the notion of philosophy as an art class, but you're right. It typically isn't something average American highschoolers would willingly put themselves through (I find philosophy interesting, so I actually would have taken a class if it had been offered).

Generally speaking, I think it's bad to look down on art classes simply because "not everyone is artistic." Everyone isn't talented at math and science either, but both are still mandatory (and should be). Honestly, I think cultural/social education is every bit as important as the more rational classes, and although schools themselves inherently do contribute to that at some level, I can't help but look down on schools without any sort of art program. An adequate education needs to be well rounded to be effective in my book.

I think I went on a bit of a rant, sorry if I stopped making sense at some point- I'm writing a paper on the side at the moment.

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@Pirate1019: Well that doesnt really describe high school in Florida that is for sure. We have the FCAT...and its rather special. But yes, some fault does lie in not so much the elementary schools, which do a good job instilling basic skills, but by middle school kids should start getting a much more advanced education (algebra, geometry, biology, nothing as tough as Trig or Physics). Get them smart enough by high school, its possible, then you can let them either prepare for a career or for higher education once they are out of middle school.


Though I really would like to see an accelerated program that could get kids taking college courses by the time they are about 15. It wouldnt really be that tough. Only thing the kids might need is a bit tougher of an english class regiment and some higher maths and sciences, nothing incrediby complicated.


Thinking about it more, another issue with the education system is the hold everyone at the same level philosphy that seems to go on. There are more than enough intelligent kids to put them all into advanced classes. In my opinion you should really start getting a high school style education (where you can pick an easier or more challenging course load) in middle school. This way kids can get at least half way through their high school courses by the time they actually enter high school. Ideally the best thing for any education system is to minimize time and maximize learning, since that is the most effective in terms of money.

Wow, manhunter, your school sucked. We have what you just described here in California. No, my school district was not the best funded, we just had kickass administrators and teachers.

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Well in high school the holding people at the same level thing isnt too much of an issue in Florida (but you need to put so much pressure on the administration to do stuff like that in Elementary and Middle Schools), its more like pass the dumb kids by lowering standards, so they can drop out 3 credits short of graduating. Just for reference, students in some of the lower level classes, can pass their exams with a mere 40%.


But we do have the FCAT...and that really does show how bad Florida's education system is, I think it is ranked 49th of all 50 states.

lol. If that's true then California is either right in front of Florida or right behind it.

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