I agree with you in most, if not all, of the things you said.

honestly when i read nana, and when it comes to hachi and takumi, my heart breaks every bit. I completely understand Hachi is flawed. But not as takumi, they've been together for long enough and nothing changed at all. Sometimes i think takumi underestimate Hachi's love for him.

I know that she bares a small bit of responsibility on why she is hurting so badly. She knew the man who she was going to marry.. and went on with it. But it isnt excusable for a married mother, taking care of herself and her belly all alone while the husband is on the other side supporting a girl, who to me is a complete homewrecker. I dont like takumi the way many people do. I dont hate him either. But my many reason to hate him is how he gets away with things and finds it completely nothing. Irregardless of who Reira is to him, staying with your wife atleast a little bit more than that girl is important. It's either you choose a relationship with the hachi through the child only, like not getting married at all or marry hachi and bullshit with her. Yes, there are sweet times but you cant compare it to the times where she is all alone.

All I wanna see atleast is for Hachi to leave him, atleast for a long while(seems like it already, mututal separation). If theyre ever going to end up together, and who knows.. i'd leave my mind open to it. since in real life, ive seen worse.. but yea, if theyre ever going to end up together, i hope takumi makes it up to her.. as in really stop his cheating ways, well.. we can see from the future that "maybe" he did right? since i have an understanding that marriage with CHILDREN, the children are the ones you have to be prioritizing, so for the sake of them, for now i understand why they need to be together. if hachi and takumi ever ends up together, i wish this time its for the right reasons! not for the sake of an obligation cos the family they created together the children they raised(whther its theirs or not),they WILL grow up, they have to start living for the two of them(takumi and hachi) at some point.


Hachi with Nobu, i dont mind it.. I dont care if Nobu is too good for her, in this manga or either in real life, neither does matter. If nobu can linger around longer til she realize what she really is feeling. who knows? but many doubt it, since as many fans had said, the mangaka is unpredictable. Hachi with nobu.. is kinda predictable to me.

takumi and hachi or nobu and hachi.. theyre both open possibilities, irreagrdless of any pain.. but there is another possibility possible.. neither of them.

i didnt particularly answered your questions in any way.. since unusuallove have MOSTLY the same opinion as i did. i jus added smething along,

Last edited by Crazyee. at 2:38 pm, Oct 23 2010

I really think Takumi is misjudged because he is rational, strong and determined. He is the only character in the story who doesn't allow himself to be taken over by his emotions, who don't make stupid decisions and who always think about everything, what is going to be good for business and what's going to be good for everybody.

He surely is worried about Reira all the time and surely he was against her relationship at the beginning. He tried to make her his lover because he thought that would be the best for the band and for her but he quickly realized that she won't be happy with him so he gave up from this "plan". He really would like to see Reira happy.

He deeply loves Hachiko. He even said that to her (vol 19, chap 73): "I do think about other women but you are the one that I truly love".

I love him. It's my fav char. Hachiko is a lucky woman (and I think she knows that).
I hope they end together, I would be very happy for them.

Okay, see I would say that Hachi is actually the opposite of lucky. She's in love with a man who cheats on her and doesn't treat her right. That's about as unlucky as you can get. If anything, Takumi is lucky that she has stuck by him for so long, but Hachi is definitely not lucky, and saying she is is completely insulting. It absolutely undermines her depressing situation.

Though I suppose you could say she's lucky to find love at such a young age, I think the the unluckiness of her situation is much greater than any bits of luckiness you might find.

its her own fault?
i believe the "lucky" part is bcz takumi



________________
"It's so warm that, Before the snow has a chance to stick, He melts it for me."

True, he took care of her financially, but that doesn't make up for the emotional pain he caused her. Anyway, he manipulated her into this situation. She wanted to be with Nobu, but he convinced her that the kind thing to do would be to break up with Nobu and marry him. He did this because, for whatever reason, he's very possessive of her and he didn't want her to be with anyone else. Personally, I think she'd be luckier if she had a loving husband (Nobu) who maybe couldn't afford the nicest things, than a hurtful husband who can buy her tons of stuff.

And, okay, when you say that she got herself into that situation in the first place, I don't know if you mean the baby or the unhappy marriage or what, but the baby is just as much Takumi's fault as it is Hachi's (maybe more so, because he forced himself on her several times), and she was manipulated into the marriage, so it's not really her fault . . . And if you're referring to the fact that she's in love with an unfaithful man, well, we can't help who we love, so that's really no one's fault.

Takumi is very serious man.
I Think no metter that he really love Hachi, he`ll without fail follow Reira... it`s sad...
but he feel responsibility for her. He clearly understand that he`s at fault.
And i think it`s lovestory about Nana and Hachi...
everything else is just an entourage.

(First of all, I admit my guilty truth that I did not read all of the posts [some, yes, but not all], so please do not blame me if someone else has already stated similar/same points.)

(i) I think that Takumi loves Reira and Nana (a given, pretty much). I think that...he loved Reira as a sister, but then, as they grow older and appeal more to their looks and attracting the opposite gender (teenager life...difficult!), he did look at Reira as a woman, not a sister, though he thought she was so fragile and princess-like that he'd ruin her pureness by getting in a relationship with her? (long sentences there, sorry) I'm not sure about that, but I can definitely say he loved Reira, and probably as woman before too. Nana, he probably fell (?) in love with later on in his life, though it probably was a little forced (?) after he got her pregnant. But that doesn't matter, he loves them both, I suppose, though he does have a tendency to sleep with other women (stress relief?) Though, I'd say that Nana, as cute and adorable (in my point of view she's so cheery at times she's quite adorable and likable) as she may be, I think that Takumi would stand up for Reira instead of Nana. Probably, in a normal argument, he'd stand up for Reira (keeping in mind that Reira is "princess-like", "regal" "fragile" "sweet"?) Unless she's proposing crazy ideas (I can imagine him slightly slapping her face to get her back into her senses). But I think Takumi would take care of Hachi because of her pregnancy (he loves family, and I guess he feels guilty for causing Nana emotional trouble at other times, he'll take care of the child; plus, there's little chance that it's the other guy's child [supposedly having used protection, as she and the other guy claims])

(ii) I personally think that in the short-run, while in their crazy love lives and sleeping with practically anyone worth looking at off the streets (I don't approve of Takumi's sleeping tendancy, haha), Nana and Takumi will suffer quite some in their love lives. I'm not directly addressing to the question, as I've got seriously no idea and wish the mangaka would finish soon, but I think that in the long-run, Nana and Takumi would be glad to have met each other and fell in love (not so sure on Takumi's part, but let's say for now...) Takumi and Reira (trying not to be biased), I know, wouldn't last very long or end very prettily. Takumi has tendencies to sleep with random women/prostitutes. I don't think Reira would be very happy to hear that (not like Nana would be, either...) but she might go back to Shin. I mean, Reira has some romantic connections with Shin. If she didn't then why did she keep his lighter? She could have picked some prostitute of the street, like Takumi (or similar too). Why not? Or maybe she wanted to force herself to have another relationship, to cover up her pain. But still, she wouldn't be happy, and would most likely go back to Shin, or bury her pain in drinks? Both ways aren't good, though, and won't help with Takumi and Reira's relationship. Once they've already got into another relationship, it's pretty much over. Love's complicated, haha. Reira's committed this "crime". Same with Nana, but she's motherly and more forgiving and to her, apologizing to others is more natural than it is for Reira (plus, she broke up with that other guy, while Reira still might get back with Shin. The ex boyfriend of Nana has another now, anyways. We know from flash forwards [? don't know what to call them, but into the future,] Nana and the ex never get back together. At least not for now). She's not as haughty as Reira and doesn't think that she's the princess everybody loves. She'll accept it as part of her life, and try to do the best out of it. (plus, she's pregnant with his child. What's he gonna do about that?) But not with Reira. Never with Reira. Reira would go wild and further find comfort in other people, which will drive Takumi in rage (cheating girlfriend/boyfriends...they don't see faults in themselves but others, don't they?) They just wouldn't work out, somehow...Reira's too attractive and known, as well as Takumi. If Takumi ever somehow saddens or angers Reira, she'll most likely go flying into another person's arms. Really, Hachi isn't like that, I wouldn't suppose she'd go to her ex immediately. She'd consult someone like Nana, I think. (OK I try not to be biased ...) Well, to put this into short words, I think that Hachi and Takumi would have been glad to have met together. And hopefully it'll end Takumi x Hachi.

(iii) I think that Takumi would definitely want his children to grow up healthy without worrying about parents divorcing or having affairs and whatnot. Not that he might stop his ridiculous sleeping tendencies, but I think he'd give up parts of his work time to be with family. I think he'd want to provide them a nice life...he wouldn't want Nana to raise them up as a single mother, I think...

***

I'm still confused on who Takumi would end up with, though. Nana'll obviously be hurt, as she already is, but things with Reira is pretty terrible too. Both ways he'll break their hearts, haha. But it's more like: Does Takumi value family (which he'd never really had) over romantic love, or romantic love over family? Could he bear seeing his children raised up by a single mother? Or how about his children not acknowledging him as they grow older, knowing that he's gone with Reira, another woman? I really don't understand Takumi. I think my post is mostly me rambling...Oh well.

(i) Which woman does he truly love?Is is Hachi or Reira?
It's pretty obvious that he treasures Layla. Layla is Trapnest's soul and Takumi is the backbone.
For example, Takumi won't abandon his work if Hachi runs away... But if Layla who runs away, he will put it on emergency, the top priority list.
He treats her more like a sister, because that's Takumi's way to value her. See, Takumi didn't have a harmonious family in his child, so i can understand his growing wish for family's bond.. and it's to say that he doesn't believe in woman at all.. he always takes matter by himself. So a "woman" value can never win to a "family" value from his perspective. He can replace anywoman, but no one can replace Layla.
(ii) Will Ai Yazawa give him & Hachi a happy ending? Will he ever stop cheating on his wife?
Ugh.. First case, If Yazawa wanna make a happy ending, i think Hachi will end up with Nobu.
Takumi is not a man who will emotionally admit that he's in love and go with the passion >"<
Second case, Takumi-Hachi's happy ending.. I think the current story is already a happy ending for them. So nothing will change, he still continues sleeping with other woman.
(iii) Now that he has a family and two kids, will the "Unchangable heirarchy of important things" in his life change and will we see this playboy end being a true family man and putting family before work and everything else?
And who's the boy mother?? Obviously not Hachi's.. It's his son from other woman, my guess it's Layla. So if he becomes the family man, he will have to responsible with the boy's mother. And i can't imagine he has two wives. So instead, he will need to choose one over another.


________________

Takumi loves Reira... for sure... First of all he SET UP TRAPNEST FOR REIRA..!
And If his work is most important for him It's beacause he wants Reira to sing, that's way he cares for buisness so much for giving Reira purpose in life. He doesn't want to be with her because he knows he is a scum and he loves Reira too much to let her live with a scum...
He has some feelings for Hachi but she's not so important for him as Reira... After Ren's death he leaves Hachi in late-pregnant all alone for a month just to take care of Reira and he's not even keeping in touch with his wife... and how sad he was when he had an argument with Reira... hachi realized that the only person who can make Takumi feel this way is Reira...

Well , I'm not a Takumi fan.. I just think he loves Reira although he is too proud to admit it because It ruins his image of casanova that he was creating.... and I don't want him to be with Reira... neither with Hachi... I feel sorry for the girls.. He doesn't deserve Hachi and Reira.... I love Nobu and Hachi and Reira with Shin or Yasu...

But Ai Yazawa loves sad endings...

AmpiricVone
Thanks for your very interesting POV.

-valkyrie-
<<i think that they will stay together but little ren messed the situation real hard since i don't think he is hacchi's (my feeling anyway ) >>
R u sure? I think he is Hachi’s son. This is one of the other mysteries AI Yawaza has left us with. I think the boy looks like Hachi and the daughter looks like Takumi.

unusuallove
Loved reading what you had to say. Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts. It’s nice to know that you think Takumi X Hachi is a true realistic couple rather than a forced/unnatural couple.

Crazyee
Thanks for your insight!

daniyagami
<<He[Takumi] tried to make her his lover because he thought that would be the best for the band and for her Reira but he quickly realized that she won't be happy with him so he gave up from this "plan". >>
Thanks for your POV. Where is the manga does it hint this “plan” that you mention of Takumi wanting to make Reira his lover early on?

xobposha
Yep I think that it is very possibly the case that the manga is about Nana and Hachi and everyone else is a side character.

shoufuu
Thanks for sharing your POV. In all honesty, we are all confused that’s why we are discussing it so that we can draw our own conclusions because this hiatus makes me think we are never going to get an ending…

Akatsubaki
Loved reading what you said. Its fresh and current and you’ve got it right (I think). But I am concerned about one thing. When you say << And who's the boy mother?? Obviously not Hachi's.. I>>
Obviously not HAchi’s? It’s not that obvious to me. What makes you so sure it is not Hachi’s?

Sunniva89
You are right, he probably did create TRAPNEST for Reira. That’s why Reira and work/business are co-related and nothing can be as important as them. But does he want to romance Reira? No. Now if that is coz he doesn’t think he is worth Reira? We are not sure. Although for a selfish man like him, I can’t be sure. But true he doesn’t want to romance her and even when she is opening her arms for him, he doesn’t feel weak in the knees. If Ai Yazawa wanted to show some emotion there and hint at man X woman love, she could have but Takumi didn’t falter.
Hmm he’s not a romantic man. That’s why. So Reira important yes, he does not desire her as a woman. She is a flower he wants to nurture/cherish/treasure. But Hachi is the woman his instincts have driven him to and he knows she can compromise with him coz she is also flawed.
Hmph. All the relationships are flawed here.
The only proper romantic love seems to be with Nana and Ren. and then Yasu’s love is also pragmatic (less romantic but still makes sense)


Last edited by goal at 1:50 am, Jan 10 2013

Well Takumi and Reira probably have a son together so I guess he desired Reira. And he kissed her on Valentine Day and he was shocked by his own passion just see his face... and then he kissed her once again...and they started sleeping together. I think all of these years he just didin't realize how much he wanted Reira...

The poster of Takumi and Reira kissing are most beautiful picture in the manga for me ;-)


I think Reira's feelings for Takumi are a little bit exaggerated in the manga. Ai Yazawa makes her really desperate for Takumi's love. Its like an obsession.

And I think Hachi loves Nobu not Takumi. When Hachi tells the story in anime she says that her feelings for Nobu are still inside her. Hachi and Takumi are good example of people who doesn't love each other but are forced to stay together.because of the child.

And Hachi isn't happy with Takumi. How can you be happy when your own husband has a son with another woman ? He treated on her while she was still pregnant because Sachiko and little Ren seems to be the same age.
Hachi just doesn't want much from life. She's satisfied with those little pieces of love Takumi gives her. And he gives her sex, not love. When they have a problem Takumi always shut up Hachi with sex.

Takumi truly loves Reira; it's rather evident through his actions during the entirety of the manga. Especially the chapter when they kiss, (can't remember the exact number, but you get it) is really important because if one pays attention to however it was planned and executed by Yazawa (Nana's inner monologue, corresponds to whatever is happening between Reira and Takumi) pretty much embodies their relationship. He views her as someone he wouldn't dare to put her on the same pedestal as anyone else, as she is really the most important person to him and he doesn't want to mess this up.
Now, one could argue that it is a brotherly love and such, but Takumi's backstory refutes that. When Reira enters middle school, Takumi is disgusted with himself when is thinking of her as a potential sex partner. (which is later followed by him sexing a girl on a bathroom.) It's a love of romantic scent.

Takumi is a womanizer by nature, he can't change that (as again, depicted by his own words) so he doesn't want to put Reira through the misery of it, so he is trying to protect her from himself, though he is always looking out for her, more than anyone else. (as Hachi noticed and mentioned that already)

Now about his feelings towards Hachi, he cares about her as he finds the family harbor he missed as a kid, and he has settled on having a family with her, because he really wants that. But truly loving her, romantically? I don't think so.

Takumi contracts HIV and dies from pneumonia. Hachi gets with Nobu....I'm kidding...I haven't finished half the series, but him cheating makes me mad.

Takumi towards Reira: No where in the manga is it hinted that Takumi feels sexual attraction towards Reira. It is even hinted in one of their flashbacks that he considers her to be a sanctuary amidst the sad circumstances surrounding him. He manipulates the situations so that Reira, his sanctuary, can stay with him. But even she was in relationship with others, he did not display any jealousy. I consider this to be an important point. He always wished for Reira's happiness even when she dated other guys. So we can assume that while Reira is someone whose importance exceeds sexual fulfillment in his life. But few scenes make me think otherwise. Like the time when he forces Hachi to have sex after he receives a message from Reira and kissing her passionately when she pushes him during Valentines day. One more interesting fact that I want to point out to people who support Takumi X Reira: We have established that Takumi wants Reira to be happy. When she tells him that she wants to be with him even as one of his many lovers, or when she is in bed, Takumi never chooses her as a romantic partner, even when he knows that she'll be happy with it. Even after sleeping with her, he considers the whole thing as a burden instead of treating it as realizing a long held dream.

Takumi towards Hachi: Unlike with Reira, I cannot directly show any direct evidence for his feelings than what is apparent in the manga. But there a few circumstances which I think are interesting. Depending on the reasons, these can be construed whichever way.

1. Takumi was known to not pursue girls who broke up with him. So what prompted him to go to Hachi after she told him that they were breaking up?
2. Why did he decide to shoulder the child's responsibility? Takumi is not exactly a caring person, so why did he not go with Hachi's decision to abort? Also, Hachi clearly mentioned that the child might belong to Nobu. Why did he call Nobu immediately instead of letting Hachi and Nobu talk it over. There was no reason for him to intrude in between them. There was no need for him to push Hachi like that, especially when he knew that she was the kind of person to rely on the first person to offer her help.
3. During the party, Takumi is irritated that Hachi attended the party. I think there was no reason for him to get irritated. She was a non famous person and except for Blast and Trapnest no one would recognize Hachi as the wife of Takumi. And when she tells him that she'll move out of their house he takes her to his room and forces her to have sex. Hachi herself says that she did not resist him because she was scared at how irritated he was. After this, when she gets ready to leave, he apologizes and asks how she can manage without money (manipulation?) and who she is going to go to- her parents or Nobu (Nobu's name comes with a serious expression). I consider this thought process out of line with Takumi's character. Because, he is one of the few people who knows that the person who Hachi would go to is Nana and Nana would definitely take care of Hachi if she ever left him.
4. During the picture incident of Ren and Reira, Takumi for a short while considers leaking the information about him and the actress he slept with but instead chooses to reveal his relation with Hachi. Again, revealing a fling with an actress would be more beneficial to Trapnest than revealing that he, a band member with fans, is getting married soon after Ren.
5. Why does he have to care for Hachi so much? Deciding to getting married, meeting her parents, taking one sided responsibility for her pregnancy where he might not be the father, giving in to Hachi's whims, dropping by their house more frequently- These are all the things he can do without especially because he is a person who is dedicated to his work and Reira.
6. Early in the manga he mentions if Hachi wanted to increase the family size and later we see that there is a second child too. I don't think they are twins because of what Fujiko the doctor told hachi. Why did Takumi have one more child with Hachi? Especially when Reira hates it that Takumi likes his wife.

Conclusion: While he treasures Reira more than any person, in the whole manga, Hachi is the only person with whom he displays hints of jealousy and possessiveness. Although Reira receives more care and attention, hachi is a romantic interest and a sanctuary in his adult life, much like how Reira was when they were children.

Wow you got me thinking there. I've to agree with you mostly except I think he does feels sexually attracted to Reira (just like any woman he slept with, he's after all a womanizer).
But bcus of how he feels towards her - An angel with a voice of sanctuary
He wants to protect this selfish desires of his and wants this sanctuary to be "happy".
So even though he wants to keep her as pure and innocent as possible, he will do anything to make her "happy" even if it means to take away her innocence.

It just struck me when he told reira that she is having a brother complexity and that she is just a victim that falls in love with the kidnapper. He also tells her that he will only be one of the many lovers (but not #1)
It's so contradicting when he obviously places reira as #1 (though he sees her as work) above anything else.
It's either he's in denial bcus he does not want to hurt reira by taking away her innocence and not being able to give her what she wants or he really just sees her as a voice of sanctuary and that it is his "job" to make her "happy" - which is why he said that she is special and never used the word "love" on her. As he don't see this as love but sister complexity (just like how Ren sees it)
I guess it could be both at the same time. Denial hence didn't use the word "love"

As for Hachi, she will always be #2 no matter what. Even though Takumi tells Ren that without Hachi it will be a battlefield for him, he only thinks of her when his "work" is over.
He said that he thinks of many other woman but she is the only one he truly loves bcus he did not see his feelings towards Reira as "love" but "work".
"Truly loves" bcus she's the only one girl he ever felt possessive and gets jealous over and wants to keep by his side.

I guess you were right, Reira is his childhood sanctuary while Hachi is his adult sanctuary. There's no other way to describe.
Hence he will never end up with anyone even though he cares for both deeply.

Reira will never be "happy" even if she's the special one. She will always wished to be in hachi's position, to be loved by takumi the way she wants him to. While takumi is staying by her side just for her to sing again to be "happy". In one of the future scenes, it is shown that reira bears a hatred towards takumi and wanting to take away her "voice" from takumi (things he likes).

And Hachi will never be happy knowing the fact that takumi's #1 (work) was not what she thought it'll be but something to do with another woman. Even if to takumi that may not be romantic love but someone special, Hachi will never be able to accept his own husband caring for another woman more than herself. This is why Junko is suggesting a divorce even though Hachi seems to want to continue the marriage for whatever reason.

The only happy ending will be for nana and Hachi to live together.