What?!?!?! 😳
What kind of plot is it?!?!? 😳
Did the authors take drugs when they wrote it?!?! 😳

I totally agree with you 👍
I hate the whole censorship about the genitalia and the lack of pubic hair, but I think it’s a cultural thing as I have never seen detailed genitalia and pubic hair even in erotic mangas and manhwas, while these details are clearly depicted in erotic scenes or erotic stories in Western comics.

I agree with you about the lack of muscular, bigger, manly etc bottoms. I understand that the native audience are mostly hetero women from societies with strong gender norms, so they don't like manly men being penetrated, and/or they need an effeminate stand in for themselves in the story, but it's annoying. It's my absolute biggest gripe in BL. I hate heteronormative size difference.

I won't say that BL must be 100% accurate in its depictions of mlm relationships because it was created for and by women, but seriously, it's so much more attractive for both guys to be physically desirable to a women reader's eye, imo. I don't need a stand in when I read.
That's why I really like Korean BLs because there are a lot more masculine bottom comics.

And you're so right about the lightsabers! It's a real tragedy that there's so much censorship in comics that still essentially show pretty raunchy sex scenes, so it's a mystery why genitals are the only things forbidden. At least Japan has a variety of censorship options unlike Korea.

The lack of public hair in BL is really mainly restricted to Korean comics. I have no idea if it's because it's in full color or if it's really something Koreans don't like. The Japanese, in the other hand, like pubic hair a lot, so it's pretty much always there, based on the hundreds of manga I've read, thankfully. It's more erotic, imo. If it's going to be censored, at least put some pubes so we'll know what we're looking at, lol.

Last edited by Jessica_desu29 at 8:55 am, Jan 25 2023

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떡대수 supremacy

Really? I've seen pubic hair in almost every Japanese BL I've read that is even a little bit spicy.🤔 I've even read characters joking about shaving another characters pubes off and the other character being horrified at the thought of being bare. Lol. From my reading experience, having none was framed in only distinctly erotic contexts and as an uncommon preference.

Last edited by Jessica_desu29 at 9:05 am, Jan 25 2023

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떡대수 supremacy

Really?!? 😳
I guess I am not updated: the Japanese BL series I’ve read are mainly the ones written by Moto Hagio, Keiko Takemiya and Akimi Yoshida because their stories are deep and complex and not drowned by fanservice (there’s a reason why their works are classics of the genre) and the most recent I’ve read are “The tyrant falls in love”, that I’ve abandoned in the middle because it’s full of the stereotypes of the genre, and “Hime muko”, that I’ve started reading only recently and I’m currently at the first chapters.
I haven’t read any Bara series but I am curious about them: do you know any good title?

Thanks for these recommendations!

In terms of bara, I'm no expert - but I like these by UCHIDA Kaoru:

Ashita mo Koko de Aou

Damatte Naite Irunodesu

Also this although I've only just started it:

Akkan Complete!

I don't read a lot of GL because I cannot handle over the top, out of proportion huge eyes that the female characters have. Also most of them turn lesbian due to rape or abuse from men.😐

For BL
- Lack of decent plot
- Romanticizing rape
- Rapists or abusers going unpunished. Although, sadly this is reality 🙁
- In a given manga, Most of the characters (non-mob) are homosexual. Like normal homo-hetero interaction is missing in most.
- Every character has to end up with someone. (Eg, Sekai-ichi Hatsukoi - Ijuin and Yanase)
- Most Female characters are badly written
- Uke/seme based on stereotypes like height, physique and personality.
- Chapters upon chapters of s** (like Love Shuttle). I like the manga but 3 to 4 subsequent chapters of them just going at it.😕

My biggest pet peeve in all genre (Most might argue that this isn't a stereotype at all but I see this as the biggest stereotype)
- Almost all the Ukes/bottoms have light hair color. Based on an answer I received for a different question, in real world women are considered "pure", "fair", "innocent", "weak" and hence are represented with white. Since ukes are basically written as stand-in for women, most authors draw the uke with light/white hair.

Last edited by forreal at 4:14 am, Feb 16 2023

I never saw the trope “she became lesbian because of abuse at the hands of men” in the GL series I read: I guess or it’s an old trope since the GLs I read are mostly recent and very few are old or I just happened to have never read series that use that. 🤔
I totally agree with you about how hateful these BL stereotypes are. 💯
Why don’t writers realize how it’s important to always criticize any form of abuse and rape regardless the genders of the abuser and the victim?!?!? 😡
I agree with you that female characters in most BL series tend to be badly written: I can count the BL authors who know how to write women on one hand! 😳
Given that many BL authors are women, I wonder if they suffer from internalized misogyny. 🤔
One of the reasons why I read more BL classics like “Marginal” by Moto Hagio and BL Chinese novels like “Mo dao zu shi” by Mo Xiang Tong Xiu is the fact that they have well-written plots and don’t waste time in smut or sex scenes except when they are needed for logical reasons.

PS: I know GL series and novels that don’t have the traits you hate: would you like to know the titles?

Last edited by Sharaz-de at 10:42 am, Feb 16 2023

I guess I read those GL a long time ago. Unfortunately most of the GL I picked up at the time had the same trope. I haven't read any recently.

I discovered Mo Xiang Tong Xiu's work last year and still haven't been able to move on from “Mo Dao Zu Shi”. I love the other 2 novels as well. MDZS and TGCF for plot and SSVS for comedy.

If you have any recommendations for GL without these traits, I would love to try them 😀

Sorry if I answer you only now, forreal, but I had a lot of work to do and I couldn't postpone it.
This is my list of suggestions for GL series you could like.
Novel
-"Female general and eldest princess" by Please don't laugh
-"Clear and muddy loss of love" by Please don't laugh
-"Matrilocal marriage" by Please don't laugh
-"Sappho's leap" by Erica Jong (the protagonist is bisexual and both her heterosexual and lesbian romances play a big role in the story)
-"In the Vanishers' palace" by Aliette de Bodard
-"Fireheart tiger" by Aliette de Bodard
-"Seven of infinities" and "The red scholar's wake" by Aliette de Bodard (they're part of the "Universe of Xuya" series and I suggest you to read all the short stories and the novels set in this universe because it's an excellent example of alternate history and Vietnamese-inspired science fiction, it has many interesting female characters, there isn't sexism and the plots analyze the interactions between humans and AIs and all the relationships women can have between each other, alias mother and daughter, friends, relatives, coworkers and lovers)
-"Silk & steel" by Janine A. Southard
-"The locked tomb" series by Tamsyn Muir
-"The burning kingdoms" series by Tasha Suri
-"She who became the sun" by Shelley Parker-Chan
-"This is how you lose the time war" by Amal El-Mohtar
-"Teixcalaan" duology by Arkady Martine
-"A dead djinn in Cairo" and "A master of Djinn" by P. Djèlí Clark (I suggest you to read the short story "The angel of Khan el-Khalili" and the novel "The haunting of tram car 015" set in the same universe because the author mixed Coptic Christianity, Islamic mythology, Egyptian history and Ancient egyptian mythology with alternate history, urban fantasy and steampunk very well)
-"Kissing the witch" by Emma Donoghue
-"The saga of the Renunciates" trilogy by Marion Zimmer Bradley (it's part of the "Darkover" saga and I suggest you to read all the books in it because it's a classic of '60s-'80s science fantasy, it has many interesting female characters and it deconstructs the sexism, the misogyny and the homophobia present in '60s, '70s and '80s science fiction and fantasy genres)
-"Dhanurana" by Orion and Opal
-"The Kyoshi novels" by F. C. Yee (they're part of the "Avatar-The last airbender/The legend of Korra" franchise and I suggest it because the world and the magic system are well-built and the characters interesting and well-written)

Animation
-"The legend of Korra" by Bryan Konietzko and Michael Dante DiMartino (the protagonist and her love interest are bisexuals and their relationship starts as love rivals but then becomes friendship and in the end love and the animated series is sequel to "Avatar-The last airbender"😉

Comics
-"Monstress" by Marjorie Liu and Sana Takeda
-"RED" by teloka
-"Let's celebrate" by teloka
-"High class homos" by momozerii
-"Sirenita" by Fran
-"Mage & Demon queen" by Color_LES
-"The legend of Korra: Turf wars" by Irene Koh and "The legend of Korra: Ruins of the empire" by Michelle Wong (they're part of the "Avatar-The last airbender/The legend of Korra" franchise and they're sequels to the animated series "The legend of Korra"😉

Manhwa
-"Moonlight garden" by Kang Unnie and MissPM
-"Her Shim-Cheong" by Seri and Bi-wan
-"Vengeance" by Aji
-"Opium" by Aji
-"On a leash" by Aji

Manhua
-"I'm more dangerous than you" by An De (beware it's a dark thriller)

Manga
-"Aoi hana" by Takako Shimura
-"Sasameki koto" by Takahashi Ikeda
-"Medusa" by Ryouko Yamagishi
-"Hatshepsut" by Ryouko Yamagishi
-"Kimi ga Shinu made Koi wo shitai" by Nachi Aono
-"Pieta" by Nanae Haruno
-"Kinoko Ningen no Kekkon" by Kei Murayama
-"Shiroi heya no futari" by Ryouko Yamagishi (beware it's a tragedy)

I am not sure if you would like the artwork of these mangas but I still suggest them because their plots are good.
-"Oniisama...e" by Ryouko Ikeda (beware it's a tragedy)
-"Maya no souretsu" by Yukari Ichijo (beware it's a tragedy)
-"Happy sugar life" by Tomiyaki Kagisora (beware it's full of trigger warnings and it's a tragedy)
-"Puella magi Madoka magica" franchise by Magica Quartet
-"Simoun" by Studio Deen

Thank you 😀 I will check these out