Let me see if I'm understanding this right. Japan is "behind on social issues" because they don't accept people being "officially" classified as female when they are biologically male?

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You're not wrong, but even then, the subject will often be reiterated sometimes. Like, it may go three or four sentences like that, but afterwards there might be another sentence that either says "Yukari sometimes plays soccer on Saturdays" or "That person (ano hito) sometimes plays soccer on Saturdays". It wouldn't need to shift to he/she (kare/kanojo) if the author's intent is to leave it ambiguous.

They/them is increasingly being accepted as a singular pronoun. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they

So it seems obvious to me that it's the best choice.

The number of people choosing "he/him" is frankly embarrassing.

"It" is actually fine with me; some people would find it offensive but in a manga, the person to be offended isn't real so who gives a fuck.

With that said, I'd prefer to follow the Japanese and just overuse the name and the phrase "that person".

I was talking about what the people understand and accept.
Not the official/legal situation.
...but yes:
Refusing to accept that someone with a female gender identity is a woman (be it officially or any other way), is being behind on social issues.
(mind you, when it comes to toilets, changing rooms, showers, and/or ladies/women's categories in sports, I don't really see how gender identity has any kind of relevance, whatsoever. Those differentiations have always been strictly based on physical sex ...and the only reasons and justifications for them, are about physical sex. Not gender)

Last edited by zarlan at 8:01 am, Jul 1 2019

How is destroying an existing word, the best choice?
I'd be fine with the creation of a new word ...or possibly making "it", not be non-human.
...but using "they", means that "they" becomes a far more vague and very confusing term.

Except that saying "it" about a character, due to them being a member of a group, means that you think one should say "it" about people, who are members of that group.
...meaning that it offends everyone who is like that!
Not just a fictional character.

You can thank the homosexual/tranny/LGBBQ+ community for the butchering of the English language, while also trying to force stuff like "x(h)e" and "z(h)e" to become a thing (Sort of like how furries used to push for "(s)hi" and "hi(r)" several years back). NO, wait, my mistake, they aren't pushing for it, they're just straight up doing it, consequences be damned (Yes, it is legit, I have even seen the poster myself). Also, you should see what they're doing to other languages, like German.

EDIT: Just remembered that "womxn" is a thing now too. Just saw it used in a local paper.


Well, then you should be pleased to know Japan ISN'T behind on social issues because they've had a law, for the past 15 years, that allows citizens to have their sexual identity changed on official transcripts.


Gender doesn't apply to people. It's just the "sexuality" of nonexistence and nonbiological things, such as masculine/feminine/neutral langauge. Now, if you're trying to go with the "new" definition of the word that sprouted back in the 1950s, where it's saying that you "psychological" sex is different from you're biological sex, then you should know that THAT definition came from a mad scientist, who tortured a pair of twin boys, which resulted in both of committing suicide, and declared the entire thing success (Despite everything else coming out and stating otherwise, and the experiment itself being an absolute failure).


The character is not real, it shouldn't matter. If you're offended by the work, then either don't read it or grow some thicker skin.

Last edited by Transdude1996 at 10:48 am, Jul 1 2019

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You use the term "tranny"? Thank you for making it clear, that you're a transphobe.

I don't like those pronouns, but it's at least trying to make a new term (just not even trying to make them sound anything near sensible. Using z? Seriously [AFAIK, no one has proposed anything with x in it, however]), rather than butcher old ones.

You're linking to a, clearly insincere and unserious statement (utterly bereft of facts) made by a member of a far-right racist party (and racists have a tendency to also be transphobes, misogynists, and just generally bigoted, in various ways)

No, because first of all I was talking about peoples attitudes. Not the laws.
...and also, it only applies to people who have gone through sex change surgery, and not any trans people who haven't done so. Basically saying that the person was a man, but then became a woman (or vice versa). That physical sex, rather than gender identity, determines if you are a man or woman
...which is the exact problem, that I accused most Japanese of being guilty of.

Also, as even the article you yourself linked to points out, the law is discriminatory, as it has a mandatory requirement of sterilization. (to be fair, many other countries have similar laws, but still...)

...
Yeah... that statement and everything that followed, was just lies and misinformation.
There is tons of science proving this.
Not just one single study. A single study doesn't prove shit, by itself.
Especially not that particular study, which is not accepted as valid science by anyone.

My whole point was that the people who share the relevant characteristic(s) of the character, are real! (...except you don't believe that.)
How you could miss that, I do not understand.
...but then again, I've noticed that bigots tend not to be very bright...

I must say, I expected to maybe see some ignorant comments, but...
The kind of open hate and bigotry, in your comment...
Wow.
Is this even allowed, on the forum?

Edit: No womxn isn't a thing. Some person/group tried to make it a thing, but to say that it hasn't caught on, is a bit of an understatement.

I've been using the term tranny for as long as I can remember looking up porn. It was the only way I could find some good futa hentai before I stumbled upon Sadpanda.



You're born as male or female. There's nothing you can do to change that, unless you consider genetic modification which is it's own can of worms. Besides, what's wrong with being born as a guy or a girl?


Of what variety? The "all women are inferior" kind (Which no one actually talks to and is more of a boogeyman than anything else) or the "there are biological differences between men and women" kind (Which does have science to back it, but doesn't mean much in general unless you're pushing the very peak of human performance)?


Then you should GIVE UP AND GO HOME because you're never gojng to be able to dictate how every inidividual person views any and all matters.


If you want to official be recognized as a woman, then why do you need masculine genitals, and visa-versa? The only "trans" people who can get away with being recognized as the opposite sex without any surgery are traps or less-endowed women because they actually put some work into making themselves look like the opposite sex (Though, it's much harder for a guy to dress as a girl than for a girl to dress as a guy). However, even then, I still hear about how majority of transvesites still consider themselves straight as an arrow, and only dress up as a part of a fetish.


That entire study is the FOUNDATION of the modern tranny community.


No, it's just that I don't tend care when people say offensive things about me because they're either (A) true and I laugh along with them or, (B) false and I laugh along with them or just ignore it because I know it's not true. Besides, a lot of the stuff that goes out of it's way to purposely hurt people tends to be of poor taste in the first place.


Are you sure this is bigotry and not just a statement of facts and/or opinions that do not align and come into conflict with your own?

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Yes, but whether you are born as a male or female, isn't determined by your genitalia.

That wouldn't, and couldn't, change a persons gender ...or sex, either, for that matter.
Not in any way, shape, or form.
It would appear that you don't really know what genetics is (as well as not really having a clue about gender ...or sex, either, for that matter)

The variety that sees and/or treats females as inferior ...which exists aplenty.

You have to be able to change every single individual on Earth's view, on a matter, or it's pointless?
I appreciate that you do your best, to be so clear about the fact that you are being utterly disingenuous.
No one, trying to have an honest discussion, would argue like that.

It's not about being taken as a cisgendered person of that sex. It's about being accepted as being the gender that corresponds with your gender identity.

As for transvestites...
They dress up as the opposite gender, but they don't think of themselves as being that gender. If they did, they wouldn't be transvestites, they'd be transexuals.
...and no, it's not a fetish.
How about you look up information, from proper sources, rather than just porn? ...and racists?

...says you.
Also, the fact that his (deeply immoral) experiment failed, is only further evidence that gender identity is something you're born with, rather than something that is determined by your physical sex or how you're brought up. His views, and those of the trans community, couldn't possibly be more at odds.

We're not talking about you, so that claim is completely irrelevant.

Yes.
You insist on intentionally and knowingly use an offensive slur, you cite known racists, you mention "facts" that are clear lies (debunked, countless times), you use dishonest tactics...
There is no question about it.

I noticed that you avoided one of the questions that seems a little crucial to the argument, so I'll ask it again: what is wrong with being born as a guy or a girl?


You didn't answer the question. Women are inferior when it comes to physical aspects such as strength and speed and stress limits, but they are superior when it comes to other physical aspects such as flexibility and agility and endurance. So, again, what variety of "misogynists" are they?


You were the one who dismissed the existence of a law that a country has just because:



Why do you even NEED a "gender identity"? What is wrong with being born as a guy or a girl?


No, they're still transvestites.


http://archive.fo/QQ13w

Sounds like a fetish to me.


At what point did race even enter the discussion?


But, his experiment did demonstrate that your "psychological" sex is the same as your physical sex. Again, I ask, WHAT IS WRONG WITH BEING BORN AS A GUY OR A GIRL?


Previously said:



Using words to find porn is now offensive?


NBC, Arizona State University, PBS, The New York Times, Wikipedia, and Bustle are racist and dishonest sources that tell clear lies? According to other users here, at least one of those sources is "credible".

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Every single time. Jesus Christ. Get a room you two.

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I also read EU/US comics and am a librarian.
Manga-Masters, My ANN-Lists + Imdb

That question is irrelevant.

Yes I did.
I wasn't talking about physicality.

Irrelevant.

You have one.
"Need" has no relevance.

Then your definition of "transvestite", conflicts with that of...
Well, the English language.

That's your idea of a proper source?

When you cited a know racist, as one of your sources.

He changed the boys physical sex, to prove that he could be made into a girl. He didn't.
As such, his experiment failed.
Also, one person born with a penis, turned out to have a male gender identity (as is the case, in the majority of cases), does nothing to prove that there aren't people born with a penis, who are born with a female gender identity.

Your words here, are not used to find porn.

Those aren't your sources.
Not to mention that the sources you actually do cite, generally don't support what you are citing them to say.
The actual sources, for your ideas, however... the type that actually do say the things you claim...

Every single time?
I don't remember ever having had a discussion with that guy ...or ever having seen him, ever before.

Why are you refusing to answer it? This is THE point that possibly justifies your side of the discussion and gives a reason for why ALL OF THIS is a debatable topic. WHAT IS WRONG WITH BEING BORN AS A GUY OR A GIRL?


Bustle: http://archive.fo/ZbAKe
NBC: http://archive.fo/uILcp
Wikipedia: https://archive.fo/gX5tY
Wikipedia: https://archive.fo/u78LH
The New York Times: https://archive.fo/ZECJi
PBS: https://archive.fo/bBRU9
Arizona State University: http://archive.fo/Y8DQI
NBC: http://archive.fo/e57hV


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As I've said: It's completely irrelevant.
...and we both agree that people are born as a guy or a girl, anyway, (well, aside from non-binary people) just that you argue it's all about physical sex, whilst I (along with the science) say it's about the gender identity in the brain.

Nope.

Nope.

As for the sources:
You had not cited those before, so, as I said, those were not your sources
...and they are all irrelevant and/or conflict with your arguments/position, at any rate.

Besides which, newspapers are far from good enough, for these things. Science journalism tends to be abysmal. Also: how is a women's magazine, a proper source? ...or anything other than a horrid abomination? (particularly for women, ironically)

Now stop with the dishonest crap, or I'm not going to bother wasting any more of my time with you ...and I've probably been far too patient with you, already.