Which is why I think the topic helped attract so many different opinions, as the words emphasized can be interpreted differently, which only adds onto the variation of opinion on Naruto.

When I clicked on this thread, I thought I was gonna see a post which goes something like:

"OMFG yOu fRiGGin' iDiOts NaRuTo is teh sMeX so sTfU!"

Because truthfully, I've seen a lot of those. Thank goodness that wasn't the case.

As for me, I do believe there is no character growth in Naruto. The reason is simply that, it used stock characters which needed no growth at all. Stock characters (i.e., the noisy but essentially good-natured hero; the taciturn foil to the hero; the virago; the father-figure teacher, et al) are taken as they are. You see them everywhere in any kind of literature and that's perfectly acceptable.

I am not very taken to Naruto though and for this statement, I shall give my reasons.

First is that, I view one of the three main characters, Sakura, as one-dimensional. I have seen no other facet of her from the very start. Though I did say a stock character needs no growth, Sakura still fails to impress compared to both Naruto and Sasuke.

The other is that, the manga-ka used too many elements from older shounen manga including Yoshihiro Togashi's HunterXHunter and Inoue Takehiko's Slam Dunk. The manga-ka himself admitted how much the aforementioned authors influence his work, but really, I saw so many parallels that it had taken a lot of the enjoyment factor out.

I know where you're coming from though. Everybody will tell you "well it's my opinion" whenever they bash something and it's rare that you will actually get intelligent answers. A lot of people, sadly, will never know the difference between an honest opinion/adverse albeit contructive criticism and a downright flak.

In the end, you learn to accept that nothing in this world will ever achieve universal popularity and no matter how much you want an intelligent discourse, as you say it, you might not get it all the time. And that is because people like what they like and dislike what they dislike and unfortunately, they also say what they want to say no matter how much it might hurt another.

Naruto had the makings of a masterpiece. Nowadays it's mostly kept alive through, bigger explosions, plot no jutsu, new characters etc i.e. shounen law. That doesn't mean that it's not enjoyable, but I takes someone that doesn't read a lot of (good) manga to call it a masterpiece.

See what happens when an anime/manga gets too popular. Me personally, I don't like Naruto or Bleach. There are thousands of other animes/mangas I can be watching/reading that are better than Naruto. I quit watching anime for a long time. Manga seems better to me right now as a matter of fact. But thats off topic. I know for a fact that Naruto isn't a masterpiece. That isn't a opinion, but i know it sounds like one. To me a masterpiece would be something more like "Lone Wolf and Cub". That has quite a history to it. I think that the reason most people hate Naruto is due to popularity. People like things they can be easily understood, like naruto. If i were to throw out "Homunculus", and ask someone to explain the symbolism to me, everyone
wouldn't have the same response most of the time. With Naruto you get something that any dumb seven year old can understand.

But in every decade, you need a DBZ or Lupin The 3rd. If not, what would simple minded people talk about involving manga or anime i mean. Complications are what most people don't want, which is why Naruto is popular. If you don't believe me, ask the person that started this post.

honestly, i just don't like the show....just like anyone would not like any speicific show...too many people watch it, so it's becoming like one of those over-played songs on the radio *cough* hinder - lips of an angel *cough*
that's really it.

________________
Cry "HAVOC!"
and let slip
the dogs of war.

wow, didnt think id run across another dead spelled backwards on the web, nice greek myht reference

eh i can tell you plenty of reasons why naruto is definitely NOT (not even close to) a masterpiece

uhm maybe i overread it, but did no1 mention that naruto has almost no moe potential?, i mean that is supposed to be SHOUNEN manga right?... tenten could have some (shes one of the mangakas favourite female cahracters), or temari... but theyre just very minor characters (at least in the anime and as far as ive read in the manga, about chapter 200)

hinata? the EYES omg the EYES with all those VEINS
ino or sakura? even the mangaka mentioned they were not supposed to develop in that direction at all, strong tsundere elements here,especially with sakura during the night sasuke left), but what was made of it? "i suck at fighting so i become a doctor and multiclass to frenzied berserker" (even though sakura was my favourite character at the beginning of the manga because of the "inner sakura" interludes and the sudden drawing style changes when facing sasuke or.. lets say... the orange moron)
tsunade? maybe the age should have remained a mystery
shizune? so much potential... just think of it... 2 little nekomimi pop out while she says to herself "nyah i have some indecent thoughts about tsunade-sama again, i really should stop that"
compared to bleach it miserably fails in this direction (i dont think you can name even 5 bleach female characters that are not moe in some way, youve even got plenty of bishies for the girls, byakuya, kaien-dono or the little ice taicho for example)

--> the point here is that naruto is obviously aimed at a VERY young audience younger than DBZ even

lets get to the animation / art...i dont see any "masterpiece" there, the makers of naruto seem to have kinda missed the leap in animation quality we experienced in the last few years, cause the new naruto series is almost the same as the old one, its not bad, but its nowehre near "masterpiece"
just compare the manga art of naruto and basilisk (as it was mentioned here)... is there really so much room for an opinion... just think of the time needed to draw a page in each of the manga

story? well you cant really argue about story, which is better which is not, you could, if naruto would have ended, then you could give arguments if the ending was done well, if the lose ends were connected well etc, i think naruto has an interestingstoryline, which sadly got kind of totally lost in the anime.... and extrmely much potential for sidestories (e.g., the sannin under sandaime or the old kakashi team under yondaime (i was told some of this is even covered in the manga, thats why i started reading it in the first place, just didnt get there yet)

however there is one more thing that absolutely disqualifies naruto as a good manga/anime, its naruto himself, he is a traitor to the enire message of the manga/anime, he is constantly lying to everyone, why?
the message of naruto is, as far as i have understood, that with hard work, friends and teamwork you can achieve the impossible even if youre nothing special, just dont give up
thats the reason hinata likes naruto so much, thats the dispute between the "tensai-class" ninja and those who earned their merit through hard work etc etc

but every single of the konoha ninja is working hard on his training, not only naruto

naruto has no redeeming skills even though he is training und one of the legendary sannin, the tajuu kagebunshin no justsu is only posible because iof the kyuubis chakra reserve, learning rasengan so much faster than his father, yondaime, is also onyl possible because of this, even the fact that ero-sennin took him as a student was because of the kyuubi
narutos entire training is totally pointless and fruitless, without using the kyyubis reserves he gets his ass kicked constantly, he has no ability to work in a team, he does not follow orders,constantly brings his comrades in danger etcetc and above all he doesnt seem to care, just follows his "way of the ninja" no matter the costs and what is happening? one after another the konoha ninja accept him as he wanted it to be...whats the message here? where is the connection... thats such a huge logical gap and thats supposed to be the true underlying message? "just do what you want cause youre special anyway, and you will be rewarded"?... i seriously doubt the authors abilities as a sotryteller, even goku was NOT the super sayajin (iirc)

probably, of every 1000 narutards only 1 stumbles above this huge error in the stories continuity

you should widen your horizon, maybe after reading 200+ manga (different manga, not chapters) you are entitled to say what is a masterpiece, because with statements like that youre insulting many mangaka and their work

Last edited by schokomax at 1:28 pm, Feb 26 2007

List them please. I'm currently looking for some shonen manga to read and I'm open to any recommendations. Thanks.

Shonen that feel similar to Naruto (aka they feel like Shonen Jump mangas), but do what it does better:
Long and fabulously famous with deep characters? One Piece.
Fighting your inner demons, literally? Kurozakuro.
Bloody, satisfying fighting? Black God.
Ninja? ...Hey, there aren't many ninja mangas... Anyone know some?

________________

Thanks both of you. I'll give those titles a try. Starting maybe with kurozakuro. Oh, btw do you know any shonen comedy mangas specifically based aroud school life? Like school rumble ? I absolutely love that one (although I only watch anime of that and I'm currently waiting for 3rd season).

LOL to that!

I do agree that a lot of the characters are just stock characters who have shown no growth or change - nor has Naruto really changed - except that he's a bit taller. But even in real life, how much do people change over a few years? Not too much.

Really though, the manga is great for the target audience, and if people who are a bit older enjoy it, who's to say that they just don't know any better? Definitely not you or I.

IMO, I love the series because it's cute and not because of its great and complicated plot or super dimensional characters. I look forward to new chapters of the manga every week, and have yet to lose interest.

Unfortunately, I can't say the same for the original anime which I haven't watched in God only knows how long. I was put off by all the filler episodes that seemed to be just long running fart jokes. But Shippuden has totally redeemed the anime for me and I'm now excited again about watching the series.

The voice acting is what makes the anime great for me. I think that is probably the main reason why I don't like the Viz version. It hurts me to watch it in English because the acting is so poopy.


________________

kudos to heardtheowl

Yes, I already watched/rad that and I absolutely love it. I also love Mahou sensei negima.

But a need more school comedies. I'm crazy for them