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News Article
Sura's Place/JanimeS Closing
Sura's Place is closing soon (after finishing up whatever is on his plate). For those of you who don't know, Sura was previously known as JanimeS from 2002-2012. This lady has been scanlating almost every day since 2002. I bet many of you haven't even been reading manga for that long.

Some of you may wonder why is she stopping now? He cites Mangafox in particular as not obeying her requests to not post her releases on online reading sites. You can read the details at http://www.surasplace.com/

I for one am sad to see the departure of a mainstay of the scanlation community. I haven't personally read any of the series she worked on, but she did introduce the English-reading world to many atypical series such as Intersexuality, or the popular series Superior.

You will be missed
Posted by lambchopsil on May 16th 7:37am Comments ( 77 )  [ View ]  [ Add ]
Comments

» SlyzertVoltrond on May 16th, 2013, 12:50am

Fuck Mangafox and their crony.

That is all.

thread

» philip72 on May 18th, 2013, 12:59pm

Well yes and no.

On one hand this woman is an enormous hypocrite. She never asked the mangaka or the publishing company if she could take their work, convert their words to english, and post it on her site; but she expects Mangafox to afford her a courtesy she never extended to others. How arrogant, I'm glad she's finally shutting down.
I visited her site a few times when it was JanimeS, it was a closed, walled-garden fife where she played queen and mod is god. Fuck her, we need less of her type and more of Hox's.

On the other hand, fuck Mangafox and any other online reader site that makes ad revenue from scanlation. Fuck Batoto too and all the whores that line their pockets with a cut of the proceeds. They're all cancer to scanlation.

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» LT on May 18th, 2013, 1:26pm

Quote from philip72
Well yes and no.

On one hand this woman is an enormous hypocrite. She never asked the mangaka or the publishing company if she could take their work, convert their words to english, and post it on her site; but she expects Mangafox to afford her a courtesy she never extended to others. How arrogant, I'm glad she's finally shutting down.
I visited her site a few times when it was JanimeS, it was a closed, walled-garden fife where she played queen and mod is god. Fuck her, we need less of her type and more of Hox's.

On the other hand, fuck Mangafox and any other online reader site that makes ad revenue from scanlation. Fuck Batoto too and all the whores that line their pockets with a cut of the proceeds. They're all cancer to scanlation.




Sadly there's only a handful of scanlators like Hox. It'll be a sad fucking day when he quits. cry

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» T1 on May 19th, 2013, 6:46am

philip72, I semi-agree with you.

I would call her enormous hypocrite too if she earned money on the scanlation she did for free. When I started reading her stuff in 2002 (yes I'm an oldie) and till the last time I read her stuff, I never saw any donation button. I may be wrong so don't sue me bigrazz The only thing she did force people was to become a member of her forum as to read her stuff. Also she was against posted her scanlations in other places.

Now if she did that then yes, she's a enormous hypocrite.

I did scanlation too for a decade so I may be a biased and a hypocrite too. I didn't care until I had my own group. You don't like to hear that people are earning money on what you spent time and work. Work what I did for free because of my love for the author's work and wanting to share this love with others. At the beginning you find it annoying, then you start getting angry/whining and in the end you are so affected that you just quit scanlation.

You see, those online manga readers just run automatically after you set them up nicely. Add ads to it. Have people to upload in the beginning and then let everyone else do that same. This way you sit back, have others do the work and then you earn nicely.
In mangafox's case you make mangahere and other online readers so if people don't go to mangafox the chance they will go to your other sites is big.
You can also as mangafox start making games such as Pocket Ninja and Pockie Pirates, or make a counterfeit shop such as Otaku Zone.
Last 3 are stuff that are directly against any kind of scanlation policy that may exist...it's directly pirating/illegal use of copyrighted stuff. These are done by money made from mangafox. Money they made from scanlators' work that was supposed to be free from people to people.

While readers don't give a damn and call us hypocrites (which was one of the reason I decided to stop.) we scanlators do feel that we are alone with the readers taking the other side, or not helping us taking those that are ruining the scanlation community down with us.

It may be sad to hear it from me but after I stopped scanlation and stopped giving a damn, I have been feeling much better. I'm reading what other scanlates and since I know how much effort they put in I thank them for the job they do. I know how big a fight it is for those who tried their best but didn't have the support from those they scanlated the manga to.

About your opinion on online readers. I agree. If people went to the scanlator's site, downloaded, read it there and commented once a blue moon...just that would affect their motivation good and they would continue for some more time.

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» sara.. on May 20th, 2013, 5:52pm

Thank you, You said everything I wanted to say

This is really sad :''(
Online saits especially Mangafox ( plus ungrateful people) is destroing the scanlation community I see lots of scanlators complaining about them

For me I go to almost every scanlation group sites of the manga I read and make sure that my gratitude and my love is reaching them ♡
I wish that I can do something :/

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» shinhaku on May 16th, 2013, 12:50am

Sura is a woman

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» pyonk on May 16th, 2013, 1:03am

Another loss and bad news.

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» Hespia Klarerin on May 16th, 2013, 1:30am

i thought sura was a woman

and i JUST asked her if we can pick up I-ren
i guess this explains why she said yes...

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» lambchopsil on May 16th, 2013, 9:08am

Quote from Hespia Klarerin
i thought sura was a woman

and i JUST asked her if we can pick up I-ren
i guess this explains why she said yes...

I changed all the pronouns to reflect this

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» yuri999 on May 16th, 2013, 3:05pm

Quote
(after finishing up whatever is on his plate)


You missed one. Lampchopsil , I am disappoint cry

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» Rainy Days on May 16th, 2013, 1:44am

This is quite sad, I've been a reader since the Superior days.

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» Hinokai on May 16th, 2013, 1:53am

Shame to lose an old and productive group like this.
I always find it a little hypocritical when people condemn online readers or download sites for hosting their scanlations when they're hosting the creator's work illegally to begin with though.

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» SlyzertVoltrond on May 16th, 2013, 2:46am

Ah, but those scanlators doesn't make any money and put in a lot of efforts and time to make those scanlations happen in the first place. While aggregator sites like Mangafox are freely making lots of money through ads placed on their website, according to Sura; they were earning profits big enough to make a living out of scanlations(other scanlators' work furthermore).

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» Hinokai on May 16th, 2013, 3:08am

Of course, it takes work to produce a scanlation, but it takes far more work to produce the original manga in the first place. Yet I rarely see a group up in arms that Mangafox is illegally profiting of of the original authors work, it's usually that Mangafox is profiting off of THEIR work. I just find it a bit hypocritical is all.

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» toshirodragon on May 16th, 2013, 9:46am

My feelings exactly.

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» ZL11 on May 17th, 2013, 2:19pm

Consider it like this: unless it was scanlated, MangaFox wouldn't post it, right? So it's not the creator they are attempted to defraud and steal from, it's the scanlator's work.

There are NO scanlators (that I'm aware of at least) who feel particularly GOOD about using a mangka's work. That's why they tend to encourage people to purchase the manga when it's licensed and drop it when it's licensed. So when MangaFox and other fxxxking manga aggregator sites like it profit off their work using ads, it's REALLY annoying. Not only that, but many of those site watermark a group's work with their own marks, as if they were responsible for it.

If you spent THAT much time working on a good translation, typesetting, cleaning, QCing, only to have some site just snag it and tag it, you'd be pissed too. ESPECIALLY when it's a solo effort and an act of love, more than just a hobby.

Also, it's a scanlator's hope (most, at least) that a manga will be licensed through exposure. That's the goal: exposure, not profit. That's the difference.

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» GuttedGnome on May 16th, 2013, 2:25am

Pretty pissy news. Only read Superior from what I know, but I'm sure a lot of people read all other scanlated stuff by her. But it's always pissy when a scanlator have to shut down because of some third party.

Something that always make me sigh is when I see people linking to mangafox here and anywhere I go that have to do with manga. It sounds pretty much like "Ssssssiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhh". A really dragged out and depressing sound. sad

I can understand using sites like mangafox for series that is almost impossible to get due to the scanlation group being long dead and Google only pointing to dead sites or other manga aggregator sites. But for series that currently active groups have done and perhaps still working on? That's a nono. no

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» weronique on May 16th, 2013, 2:49am

This is so annoying... I want to kill them at Mangafox... seriously, Sura's been so great, she gave us regularly 15 pages every other day, u never had to wonder "When will the next chapter come?" She always always updated any news about the series she's been scanlating...
I also found out about Sura because of Superior, and since then I was addicted. Sura's place was really source of some atypical, intreresting mangas,

sad

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» strixflash on May 16th, 2013, 2:55am

A sad news.... You will be missed.

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» deadphoenix on May 16th, 2013, 4:49am

If she (he) doesn't want it to to be stolen by Mangafox, why not releasing it as a pdf file?
Those can be saved on your computer easily and can be read easily with acrobat reader. The only thing that isn't possible is adding ads with it or split it up picture by picture decorating it with ads in a ugly way.
If this doesn't work, you can always buy the paid version with copyright protection. And if this isn't working (don't forget to send a complain to acrobat claiming your money back, if they get a lot of complains they will certainly do something against mangafox).

Their are some measurements that can delay them (Mangafox), for example; use uncommon archives like 7zip or tar. This will certainly let their ripping server crash and so it can only being added manually. It's also possible to do this with the pictures (database won't be happy with it).

A last resort is to use passwords, but please don't make it to difficult a twelve year old boy also needs to find it.

Note: if one of the readers complains, then you say: "Do something about online readers within your power, then we can do something about it." ( With a bit of luck the reader might be able to do something.) cool

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» Hinokai on May 16th, 2013, 7:12am

The day scanlator entitlement reaches a level where they have to wrap a mangaka's work in elaborate DRM in order to get their ego fix is a day when we should all pack up and move on to a different medium because nobody will be doing it for the love of manga anymore.

thread

» tgirl on May 17th, 2013, 7:05pm

Quote
If she (he) doesn't want it to to be stolen by Mangafox, why not releasing it as a pdf file?
Those can be saved on your computer easily and can be read easily with acrobat reader. The only thing that isn't possible is adding ads with it or split it up picture by picture decorating it with ads in a ugly way.

If this doesn't work, you can always buy the paid version with copyright protection. And if this isn't working (don't forget to send a complain to acrobat claiming your money back, if they get a lot of complains they will certainly do something against mangafox).

When I think about this, TZA (The Zero-Alliance) tried to have a strict way of releasing things, even if they still give you a download link next to the PDF link. (However, the download link is the one thing I can't figure with TZA and a lot of other scanlation sites.)

I have one of the highest levels of Acrobat (X Pro), but I never once attempted to split up any of TZA's projects. (I super vow never to do so since it's just...wrong.) So, I don't know if they keep theirs with a copyright protection or not. Hopefully, their pdf releases have protection of some form.

As for Sura, I go there to read Siesta, and nothing else. I'm happy that she's accomplished a lot, but at the same time, completely understand her feelings. It's her site and she can do whatever she wants. All her hard work has been abused time and time again by the aggregators much like every other scanlators' work out there. >__< I wish I could use magic to eradicate their stupid money making ads.

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» hivemind on May 16th, 2013, 5:48am

I didn't think what Sura or other scanlators did was hypocritical. Bottom line, Sura spent a lot of dedication and time for her work and she asked for respect in return, simple as that. Mangafox blatantly disrespected and ignored her and they should be shamed.

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» Hinokai on May 16th, 2013, 7:22am

Many mangaka (and content creators in any medium) consider illegal reproduction of their creation to be disrespectful as well. Why are scanlators more important than the people who make the medium we consume?

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» strixflash on May 16th, 2013, 8:08am

^ Could you please stop talking about scanlators' ethics on a scanlation site?

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» Hinokai on May 16th, 2013, 8:29am

A site about scanlation is best suited to a discussion of it's ethics, is it not?
Not to mention it's specifically on topic as the news post and Sura's Place cites Mangafox hosting releases, which is my main discussion point, and I haven't been particularly rude with how I've been making my posts.

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» strixflash on May 16th, 2013, 9:04am

Then how about making a new topic or discussing it in other thread? I completly agree with scanlator's wishes and yes, I don't agree with a single point of yours in this thread. We all know about scanlations, but this thread is NOT about scanlation ethics. Please discuss this stuffs in other threads.

thread

» weronique on May 16th, 2013, 8:13am

I would say that it's not like scanlation groups thinks of it as "their work", I think their point when they shut it all down because of these online readers is that since they do it for fans who cannot read chinese/korean/japanese and when online readers actually start making money from it... that crosses all the borders...

First, it's like online readers are stealing money from the authors of these manga, and second - they kind of use the scanlation groups for it, and thus involve them in something that is not their intention. That's why I completely understand if this discourages scanlation groups from continuing their work.

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» Hinokai on May 16th, 2013, 9:09am

I just draw issue with the fact that 'online readers stealing from scanlators' is the far more prevalent line as opposed to 'online readers stealing from the mangaka', when really, the latter is the only one that is true, and that's why I've commented on it.
And, in my opinion, if scanlation groups aren't prepared to have their work used by online readers, they should really take a look at themselves and the fact they were perfectly willing to use the mangaka's original work for their own purposes themselves.

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» ZL11 on May 17th, 2013, 2:27pm

It's not an issue of the online readers; it's an issue of PROFIT. Or did you not actually read what was going on with Sura?

A scanlator's "purpose," as you put it, is not to gain money for their efforts. It is generally to introduce new manga into the community and generally HOPE it is picked up by a legitimate publishing house. It's not hypocritical for the most part (although there are one of two groups who have ignored the C&Ds). Most groups drop projects as soon as they're licensed because that's what they are aiming for. Some. Not all groups.

If you don't understand that, if you don't like it, STOP READING THEIR WORK. Damn, talk about hypocritical. If you can't get Sura's feelings, then don't read. Easy peasy.

thread

» babel on May 16th, 2013, 6:11am

Sad news indeed. The even sadder thing is that Mangafox won't give a $h*t about it.

Well all I can say is thanks to Sura/JanimeS for all the years and thousands of hours (and dollars!) spent bringing us all those titles.

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» ratte_ru on May 16th, 2013, 8:17am

sad news.
go to hell mangafox

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» xxmichellexx27f on May 16th, 2013, 8:36am

T^T the news kind of saddens me, I've been reading many of her scanlation Thankyou for scanlating all of those manhwa I may have read (and may not read), I'm very grateful for that smile Hope you have a better life! wink (sounds like someone just die or went so far away -_-)

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» NightSwan on May 16th, 2013, 9:14am

I thought Sura's a woman? Oh, I see that's been sorted.

Regardless, this is very sad news indeed!
I'm not big on manwha, but I've always had much respect for
Sura and have read a number of the series she's worked on.
I'm grateful for her contributions and wish her all the best.

thread

» kurokaze on May 16th, 2013, 9:41am

Sad to see you Sura.
thanx for opening my eyes to manhwa with "Hot blooded woman".
You will be missed, success with your further endeavours.

thread

» Daichii on May 16th, 2013, 11:27am

The saddest thing...

I was introduced to the world of manga at about the same time as her group started and because of people like her I decided to contribute with the scanlation community by becoming one myself, so I know what she must feel like when sites like MangaFox makes use of the time and effort the scanlator dedicates to bring all those beautiful stories we all like so much to the language of our choosing and then profit out of it.

I mean, have you worked on a Scanlation Group before? The standards of quality nowadays are most of the time even higher than the English Publishers have, why? because they love manga.

Granted, we take the product off of the mangaka and then work on it, but we don't profit from our work, we just want other people to enjoy the stories we love so much but can't because they can't read kanji.

Granted, we have our own ego and we like it to be stroked from time to time, but that's all we ask.. to see you people smiling and maybe read a word of thanks or chat about what you like of the manga we love, etc.

But well.. I have to stop ranting and say that, it's a really sad thing Sura's place is closing, I have personally read quite a lot of your projects and it's maddening to see you go like this.

Although I'm pretty sure you won't stop completely or maybe that is just a wish from my part, please don't let those ppl strand you away from manga.

I don't know if you will ever read this but,

Love your work, best of wishes.

thread

» MasamiAkane on May 16th, 2013, 12:15pm

Aww. It's a shame, but I can symphatize. Thank you for sharing your scanlations and not asking for anything in return.

Some of you just don't understand, and there is nothing hypocritical about her request. Not once do I recall her asking for donations and having ads on her site. She bought everything with her own money and funded her own site out of pocket. They were not free raws she found on the internet. I don't remember her having any ridiculous membership requirements or hoops to jump either. She shared them to us for free. The intention/purpose is completely different.

It's hard to fathom for readers why scanlators are angry at popular manga reader sites when it's not affecting (you) the readers directly. But I hope it's not that impossible for some of you to just think and put yourself in the position of scanlators like JanimeS. A little understanding should be exercised.

Good luck and enjoy the extra time you'll have on your hands! biggrin

thread

» LT on May 16th, 2013, 12:29pm

Quote from MasamiAkane
Aww. It's a shame, but I can symphatize. Thank you for sharing your scanlations and not asking for anything in return.

Some of you just don't understand, and there is nothing hypocritical about her request. Not once do I recall her asking for donations and having ads on her site. She bought everything with her own money and funded her own site out of pocket. They were not free raws she found on the internet. I don't remember her having any ridiculous membership requirements or hoops to jump either. She shared them to us for free. The intention/purpose is completely different.

It's hard to fathom for readers why scanlators are angry at popular manga reader sites when it's not affecting (you) the readers directly. But I hope it's not that impossible for some of you to just think and put yourself in the position of scanlators like JanimeS. A little understanding should be exercised.

Good luck and enjoy the extra time you'll have on your hands! biggrin


She is being hypocritical. How you and other people don't see that is mind boggling.

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» gundamgundam on May 16th, 2013, 2:37pm

Quote from LT
She is being hypocritical. How you and other people don't see that is mind boggling.

I have always admired scanlators. They spend their free time working for others for FREE, and the only thing they get in return are insults and accusations of being thieves, copyright criminals and hypocrites by people like you. But don't worry LT, that "hypocritical" scanlator won't bother you anymore. Happy?

thread

» LT on May 16th, 2013, 5:15pm

Quote from gundamgundam
Quote from LT
She is being hypocritical. How you and other people don't see that is mind boggling.

I have always admired scanlators. They spend their free time working for others for FREE, and the only thing they get in return are insults and accusations of being thieves, copyright criminals and hypocrites by people like you. But don't worry LT, that "hypocritical" scanlator won't bother you anymore. Happy?


laugh One less whiny scantard so yeah I'm happy.

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» ZL11 on May 17th, 2013, 2:30pm

Quote
laugh One less whiny scantard so yeah I'm happy.


Wow. You're an ass. Go fall in a gutter and die.

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» LT on May 17th, 2013, 6:36pm

Quote from ZL11
Wow. You're an ass. Go fall in a gutter and die.


cry

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» Hinokai on May 16th, 2013, 1:11pm

You misunderstand the point of my posts.
I have no issue with Sura's Place or how it was operated, on the contrary, I find the amount of releases to be incredibly impressive and the loss of such a group to be damaging. What I take issue with is not the group itself, but the reason for closing - the blaming of online readers and download aggregators for 'hosting against the scanlators wishes'.
The best way for me to explain my problem is thus - I've cleaned around 200 chapters and typeset about 70 in my short career in scanlation, which isn't particularly many, but regardless, for none of those have I asked any of the mangaka for permission. I doubt Sura or almost any other scanlator would have gotten permission from the mangaka of their project either.
So, if a scanlator doesn't get permission from the creator of the manga they wish to scanlate, why should they expect others to get their permission for their scanlations?
That is hypocrisy, and that is my issue.

thread

» Rinola on May 16th, 2013, 2:54pm

But surely you've made the problem far more 2D than it is. From what I understand the issue isn't simply that mangafox is hosting their projects. It's that they MAKE REVENUE (and not a small amount either) from hosting the work of scanlation groups that weren't profiting (and in many cases are making a loss).

Granted scanlation is a grey zone, but surely it's going to adding salt to the wound to a mangaka if you're making hundreds and thousands from their manga compared to if you were only trying to spread manga to people who can't speak the language and at least buy the manga to do so?

I would have thought people like Sura especially, who had a policy of deleting scanlated chapters after a period of time and made the effort to buy the manhwa would find it frustrating that their attempts to bring more attention to a mangaka (without being hugely detrimental to sales) were being used by some unrelated group to make big profits. Where's the hippocrisy in that? If mangafox didn't have ads or were open about how much they earn from ads compared to hosting costs, people wouldn't complain so much.

It'll be sad to see such a meticulous worker go though. sad

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» Hinokai on May 16th, 2013, 9:29pm

Well, in my mind it is that 2D. Scanlation groups are not entitled to whine about Mangafox taking their work and proftting off it because they don't own or have any right whatsoever to that work.

And no, scanlation is not a grey area. It's illegal. You can't go rip a DVD and upload the movie without sound or slap your own dub on there and call it fine. If you asked a mangaka what he thought of scanlation, he'd probably tell you that he hates it as it's illegal distribution of his work.
It seems to get in people's heads that they're somehow scanlating to help the manga, yet at the same time they condemn Mangafox and co. for hosting all that manga. But how does Mangafox get the manga? From scanlators. There's only two real differences between online readers and scanlations, the intent, and the fact one profits more than the other.

As for deleting chapters after a period of time, a member of a group I'm in asked me a similar question in relation to licensed series'. Deleting is a gesture, a nice one I guess, but still just a gesture. It's already on the internet and removing it from your site does not undo the fact you released it and doesn't make one any better than a group who proudly displays their downloads on their main page.

Should that mean we all stop scanlation so that the evil online readers can't keep running? Well, ideally not. It's just better if people are able to realize that their hobby is illegal and not some righteous charity work, and that everyone should just focus on doing it because they like manga.

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» Miale on May 17th, 2013, 12:37am

Wow you've got a point there roll

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» Rinola on May 17th, 2013, 5:20am

Hahaha, well that's well reasoned smile but I still disagree.

It's a sweeping generalisation to say all mangakas are angered since there are cases where permission has been sought (1/2 Prince novel translations for example), and equally manga which groups have dropped after a mangaka mailed the group to ask them to desist, I recall seeing one recently but at present I can't remember it but an example of an aggregator site would be onemanga. The impression I get is reflected here (shamelessly nicking off wikipedia lol); that at the end of the day a lot of the manga are hindered by their being in japanese and hence the audience being limited to Japan. Would you disagree that many people after reading a manga they enjoyed, are more likely to to buy it, especially if the scans/future chapters are not there compared to taking a leap of faith (I for one would never have gotten into manga had it not been for scanlations)? There are examples of manga which have become licensed following how well it was received after all.

The real issue, as I emphasised before is that the aggregators are making massive profit (without spending in the manga's works) and keeping it to themselves; they're tipping the balance since the users would then opt to read the new chapters for free over buying the work once it's out. Scanlators may not have rights over the work but for example, asking for a licensed work to be removed after the group itself has dropped it and deleted the scans surely in the best interests of the mangaka? You're right, there are the two differences you stated before, but with sites like Batoto, people complain less about it because they will (or at least should do) avoid licensed manga/take them down after licensing. The definite point at which you've trod into illegal territory is when you mess with licensed manga.

Naturally I'm not trying to paint a pink rosy world either; there are mangaka who are angry but I'm pretty sure you'll find the majority of them are more annoyed because aggregators/scanlators are scanning licensed series which would be giving mangaka profit rather than at the scanlation group. Many groups (one hopes yours included) are making little to negative profit both in money and time in buying and taking the time to translate for free; at least the mangaka has more to gain in that scenario. What exactly is the hobby in scanlating?
You want to practice japanese? Pick something less controversial to translate.
You want to read manga? Then read it, why translate it, not like the world having an english copy makes a difference to you? In fact leaving it in japanese would probably incite more leechers to learn japanese if they truly cared.
Want to procrastinate? Dude, there are methods that take less time than cleaning, scanning, translating, typsetting, proofreading, QCing and are less expensive than buying the manga to rip it apart or hosting a site.
It's most certainly not righteous but it's not wrong and bad and should be killed with fire either and I don't see how a scanlation group is being selfish in scanlating a manga (especially unlicensed?) provided they stick to unlicensed ones.

As for deleting chapters, it may just be a gesture but once again it depends on the situation. Back when mangafox and other aggregators had a massive scare and deleted a lot of the licensed manga, it's had the effect of some (true, only to a small number of) manga which were previously scanlated by groups that are now closed being lost, with new translations having to be made of the manga. As for not being any better, I bring up the point of unlicensed vs licensed manga; I agree, licensed mangas being deleted (particularly popular ones) make no difference because everyone will have a copy but many unlicensed mangas were slowly gaining popularity; without sites like mangafox holding a backup copy I don't see why it would thrive? Imagine if groups actually had control over whether their scans stay on or not; then deletion would have a bigger effect and equally the need to sign up or join would probably be less emphasised.

Thus it's still not a 2D problem. It's a sweeping generalisation to say all scanlations are evil and mangakas hate them (would you complain if your work got licensed for distribution in other countries?). I think a real distinction sits between licensed and unlicensed work and scanlation (as reflected by the earlier groups) was beneficial for the manga community. It's simply that recently it's spiralled out of control; a situation exacerbated by aggregators sites, such as mangafox who are profiting and also ignoring anything said at them. You're right in that people do have to face some facts; you could be doing something illegal, aggregators sites like mangafox don't care, and even if you killed them off more would reappear. But scanlators do have a right to whine depending on the circumstance (yes, whining because they uploaded your work and you wanted to keep it on your site is fishy but whining because someone is disrespecting licensing laws/making lots of money off something that is quite altruistic) is hardly wrong. If you don't like it, give up scanlating :/.

Applying this to sura, whilst as far as I'm aware her works aren't largely licensed, I'd suspect she wouldn't want sites like mangafox to get to her translations because once it has, she's lost control over it once it does become licensed.

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» Unknown on May 16th, 2013, 2:41pm

Post Deleted

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» Daichii on May 16th, 2013, 2:52pm

Quote from holy`bell
I'm sad that the group is closing. However, this is the internet age. Whatever you put on the internet will likely be somewhere else. There are protections, but even they are not 100% safe. Also there are always some beeps who don't follow the rules, but hey what can you do about it?


well.. she's closing right? no

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» LT on May 16th, 2013, 5:27pm

Quote from holy`bell
I'm sad that the group is closing. However, this is the internet age. Whatever you put on the internet will likely be somewhere else. There are protections, but even they are not 100% safe. Also there are always some beeps who don't follow the rules, but hey what can you do about it?


laugh Oh the irony.

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» TKS on May 16th, 2013, 3:02pm

I am so sad to see her closing, but she won't be the last to do so. Good luck, Sura!

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» Oehr on May 16th, 2013, 3:21pm

Well, I appreciate what she has done, scanlating all those chapters, though reading them, especially older cheapters, were a rather larger hindrance. No proper reader, just some standard image preview solution with no central link collection per series or bots for xdcc. There was often no other way aside from reading them on some third party reader. Batoto doesn't have them, so where else to go aside those evil ones?

That being said, in case you are going to continue or start again, please use a proper reader on your site. there are plenty available, such as foolreader and many more.

thanks and good night!

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» jj11103 on May 16th, 2013, 7:47pm

Quote from Oehr
That being said, in case you are going to continue or start again, please use a proper reader on your site. there are plenty available, such as foolreader and many more.

The reason Sura never used the readers you mentioned is because she did not want her scanlations to be so easily saved and uploaded onto some site like Mangafox. As Rinola said, Sura has a policy of deleting scans after a certain period of time elapses, this is also done for the same reason.

On another note, it is saddening that Sura will be leaving. She has contributed so much in the last few years and will be missed, but I do wish her the best.

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» psycho-shocker on May 16th, 2013, 4:07pm

So, it's all mangafox fault right? Can anyone hack their site and force it to close as if it never exist?

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» Rinola on May 16th, 2013, 5:36pm

Oh you make it sound so easy~
Take down mangafox and new aggregators will replace it. The root of the problem lies in the readers.. What will make the difference is reducing the traffic to their sites so they make less profit and this means having manga readers willingly make the change from a convenient site with a memorable URL and lots of manga there already. Sadly many users are ignorant and close minded and they have new users all the time. The scale of the problem is a lot deeper than you'd think.

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» Daichii on May 16th, 2013, 6:16pm

but getting it down could help tho... im no cracker anyway.. so.. someone else? anyone?

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» Cainam on May 16th, 2013, 6:58pm

If anyone able to hack it and give proper explanation to what they do in their very own site, I think many people will leave it.
Or if no one want to hack, just do like A Team with their scans, haha.

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» cliff on May 16th, 2013, 9:35pm

WAT? No way! I read a lot of their stuff... and just went I waited every day for a new release.... no I hope it won't close but if it does, someone pick Yeonmo up please as their project. I love a lot of their scanlation but this is my favorite

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» yarn on May 16th, 2013, 10:40pm

Well, there was some stuff of theirs I have been interested in reading, but I never did because they only allowed you to join the group/site to read releases. Which is fine and all, but something I don't care to do. So I'm not too familiar with them.

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» Miale on May 17th, 2013, 12:39am

Siesta!!! cry

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» Spearsmen620 on May 17th, 2013, 2:47am

Go A-Team on their ass and just say FUCK ONLINE READERS or have one picture of Hentai in the scanlation as one group(sadly not sure which group it was) did for early releases just to go against the ORs.

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» madmanfreak on May 17th, 2013, 7:47am

Fuck you mangafox/mangahere. Because of greedy sites like these, a pillar from the building of scanlation is breaking down. We have to do something ,otherwise the whole house will collapse inventualy. mad

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» cecropiamoth on May 17th, 2013, 4:39pm

I'm always amazed at these discussions because they seem to take place in some ideal world that doesn't exist.

In the real world there's a big Internet demand for manga translated into English. Scanlator and aggregator sites are together meeting that demand. Each kind of site is doing what it's good at -- translating, etc., versus collecting. Would you want all those manga that are so conveniently lined up on MangaFox to have to be searched out, laboriously, one by one, at the sites which translated them? I doubt it. Therefore MangaFox is doing a service for the English manga-reading community just like the scanlators are, and it does seem reasonable that MFox be able to make some money off doing that.

As for the scanlators ripping off the mangaka, well what percentage of the thousands of manga we can read in English on MangaFox now would ever reach us if they had to go though conventional licensing? Very few, I think. Given the differences between Japanese and American tastes and culture, there just wouldn't be enough demand in the USA for any but the blockbuster manga to be conventionally published here.

Oh yes, and if you insist on loving Botato and hating MangaFox, then look forward to living in a Disney-like manga world in a decade or so. Botato employs pretty strict censorship to keep the advertising arm of Google happy. For example, Botato kicked "Nana to Koaru" off its site. Mangfox, by contrast, seems to do very little censoring.

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» Daichii on May 17th, 2013, 7:09pm

Quote from cecropiamoth
I'm always amazed at these discussions because they seem to take place in some ideal world that doesn't exist.

In the real world there's a big Internet demand for manga translated into English. Scanlator and aggregator sites are together meeting that demand. Each kind of site is doing what it's go ...


BS man!

What do you think bakaupdates is for? We come here to get the latests news about the manga we like and then go to the site of the scanlator group of our choosing..

sites like mangafox aren't needed..

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» psycho-shocker on May 17th, 2013, 7:21pm

Quote from Daichii
sites like mangafox aren't needed..

Damn right!

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» cecropiamoth on May 25th, 2013, 5:27am

Manga aggregators are needed by very busy people, of which there are lots these days. And there will be more. The way the economic world is going, I expect work to take up more and more of our lives, leaving less for visiting one scanlation site after the other to catch up on our long list of manga we're following.

***

Someone said:
"the whole reason scanlators started was to share love for something and spread it's popularity so that there were more fans (and encourage these new fans to buy the manga too)."

Surely aggregators help do that! On an aggregator site I can quickly scan many, many manga and check out a few pages of each 'til I find something I like. In practice I read only manga I find that way--avoiding "big hits" like Naruto. I bet a lot of readers do that kind of scanning on aggregator sites, and so get to read hundreds of good but obscure manga. It would take much more time to do that by visiting individual scanlation sites one by one, and at most of those there's no way you can read a few pages right away to see if you like something you find there.

However, I now do make a point of visiting the scanlator site for a good manga I've discovered in that way, so I can thank them for their work.

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» StarlightDreams on May 17th, 2013, 9:43pm

RIP. sad
Though I didn't read many of her scanlations, she has contributed so much to the community and for that, this is sad.

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» iamssjvash on May 18th, 2013, 4:39am

Sad.... I really respected her work.... Many do not endeavor for so long in scanlation, yet it is sad to see that someone's passion is snuffed thanks to others' dubious practices....

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» Kurapica on May 18th, 2013, 11:38am

It's a shame to see JanimeS close.

I still remember the days when I first leeched Ozanari Dungeon from their channel and now I find out it's been 6 years since then!

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» NightSwan on May 18th, 2013, 1:31pm

On the other hand, it will be a happy day when you guys learn to respect other people.
It's obvious you don't appreciate where your manga is coming from, so if you don't anything decent to say - keep quiet.

LT, this goes to you especially.
You don't like scanlators to take pride in their work.
Fine.
We got it.
Stop repeating yourself.
Go away.



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» LT on May 18th, 2013, 2:03pm

Quote from NightSwan
On the other hand, it will be a happy day when you guys learn to respect other people.
It's obvious you don't appreciate where your manga is coming from, so if you don't anything decent to say - keep quiet.

LT, this goes to you especially.
You don't like scanlators to take pride in their work.
Fine ...


I just find scanlators double standards amusing.

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» wanderlustee on May 19th, 2013, 2:54am

Sad to see her go, just like many of the old timers (omanga, storm-in-heaven, snoopy, and hawks to name a few), but I understand that it has been inevitable. The scanlation scene has changed drastically and the scanlation "ethics" that the old timers prescribed to are still as relevant but no longer honored by the new generation.

While MangaFox may seem like the primary "culprit" for JanimeS/Sura's decision, majority of us readers/fans are to blame too for not trying to know more about the scanlation scene, the ethics (though questionable to some) that guide it, the amount of time and effort it takes to come up with a release.

Opportunists like Tazmo are still active and has multiplied and we readers don't really much care. Forums aren't as active as before and I don't even know how simple "thank yous" reach the scanlators nowadays.

Posting here the link on the history of the scanlation scene for those who haven't read it yet http://www.insidescanlation.com/history/index.html

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» loki lee on May 19th, 2013, 10:43pm

The scanlation scene has changed so much... so many people taking manga for granted and not thinking about the time and effort it takes to make a manga - the whole reason scanlators started was to share love for something and spread it's popularity so that there were more fans (and encourage these new fans to buy the manga too).

I'm sad to see all the old timers go, and sadder to see ethics be ignored.

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» Trimutius on May 20th, 2013, 8:16pm

Well i try to visit scanlators whose manga i want to read. I do read on aggregators like Batoto as well, because scanlators often link to Batoto, MangaInn or MangaPanda. I do visit mangafox, but if i see new release there, first thing i do is visit scanlators site. Baka updates is not enough because it doesn't track scanlators who don't have their own site and that is sad. sad
I even have my own list of mangas that are scanlated by some nice guy who don't bother to create a site and track them regularly. (Check out my "Read Other" custom list, well some of those are russian scanlations, but mostly it is such types of scanlations that are not tracked by baka-updates)

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» cecropiamoth on May 25th, 2013, 5:38am

wanderlustee, thanks for this:

Posting here the link on the history of the scanlation scene for those who haven't read it yet
http://www.insidescanlation.com/history/index.html


I read the entire history, and what I discovered from it was there seems to have been a sense of "belonging" that came from subscribing to and reading manga through a scanlation site, getting to know the people there, commenting in their forum, etc.

Unfortunately, having gotten interested in the history of early radio (1900-1930) a while ago, I learned that in any new medium there seems to be an inevitable movement from fun, friendly usage of that medium toward, first, increasing commercial usage of it and, finally, absolute control of it by huge corporations. Most likely the Internet will go that way over the long run. This comes about because everyone needs money more than almost anything else. Add the incredible greed that capitalism rewards and in fact honors, and you have a fearsome force that takes over everything. MangaFox, et al., are the forerunners of the Internet's likely future.

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» okigen on May 31st, 2013, 4:05pm

Goodbye Sura. Thank you so much for bringing to us Superior, which will (forever) stay on the very top of my favourite list smile

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» dwindling on September 30th, 2013, 1:30am

Yo Hinokai, I would just like to add that this closure has been a long time in coming. I've been part of the community on that site for years and Sura's always been conflicted about scanlation since she openly admits that it is stealing. I believe the mangafox thing is just the straw that broke the camel's back since she realized that by scanlating she was starting to do more harm than she was doing good.

Personally I find these scanlators ethics conversations boring.

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