I'm bored so I think it's time to get this thread moving again.

I was watching TV today and there was something about gay marriage. Then there were interviews with several people who were either for or against gay marriage. Obviously the against people were christians. up to this point I have no issues, but the only arguments those christians came up with are either "The bible says marriage is exclusively between a man and a woman" or "god doesn't want this". It's these kinds of arguments that piss me off.
First off, what kind of argument is "it says so in the bible"? The bible also says the world is flat, so that doesn't fly. Just because you believe in the bible doesn't mean we all have to live according to it. So stuff that argument where the sun don't shine.
Second, and this annoys me the most, "God doesn't want this".
Now this is great. How do you know god doesn't want this? Did he tell you, send you an É-mail or something? If god did exist in the sense of any of the abrahamic religions, then god is a great being far beyond human comprehension. So how in the world would you know what he/she/it wants? Don't you find it a bit arrogant to say you can comprehend what god wants? Screw you.
Which brings me to another point, slightly removed though. Those American politicians and their "God bless America" stuff.
The world doesn't consist of just North America you egocentric pricks. And even if it did, he sure as hell wouldn't bless your corrupt, two faced ass.

Thank you for reading this rant, I am currently quite pissed, bored and sleepy, a fine combination for pointless ranting on the internet.

________________
Do but despise reason and science,
The highest of all human gifts -
Then you have surrendered to the Devil
And must surely perish. - J.W. von Goethe

What did the people for gay marriage say? How many of them were gay? And which did they pay more attention to, the ones for or against (the interviewer?)

Watching that would of made me so mad, good for you that you could actually watch without your head exploding. When people say "The bible says marriage is exclusively between a man and a woman" or "god doesn't want this," my head just stops. It'd be better if they just chalked it up to their faith, rather than sounding unintelligent and obviously discriminating against people. It's even worse when they're discriminated against themselves, and most people are.

________________

first. . . my option wasn't available, you should add agnostic^^ means to be a seeker more or less, I don't deny that there might be some sort of higher power but 'til I see any kind of proof I won't believe in anything specific =)

anyway, about the gay marriage thing. . . I'm pro-gay marriage but(!!!) only state marriage. . . Since I'm not a believer I don't think I have the right to decide what each church should decide, we people who aren't religious gotta remember that even though it doesn't mean anything to us, it does to other people and we have no right to just walk all over them. Therefore I think each church/religion should be able to decide for themeselves whether they want to accept gay marriages.

As for the president using the "God bless America" phrase. . . Why shouldn't they? as long as they believe what they say, I'm not American but I see no problem with their presidents wishing welfare for their country :S

In Isaiah 40:22 it says "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth", so I believe they thought the world was at least spherical. Theres something about the 4 corner of the Earth in Revelation but I think they meant North, South, East, and West.

If those people believe that the Bible is the word of God, then it states it in the Bible, for example Leviticus 18:22 "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable" But this is debated and some translations widen it to include lesbians.

I agree with this last bit. America has a south and Canada too, and I agree that this would be the last place God would want to support.

(For the record I'm Neutral in what the world does. Live and let live."

________________

lol *sings* God bless America, land that I love...O rly?

Honestly, America is a Christian nation. They hold majority here. It has nothing to do with "blessing" our country or caring about it. Where I am, "God bless America" holds a lot of negative implications.

________________

The people for gay marriage gave arguments like that religious values should not be enforced through the governemnt or law in a modern secular society. also some about how sexual preference should not be an issue with civil rights.
I believe one of them was gay themselves the others were a philosopher and a civil law professor.
Also people on the street were interviewed, most saying something along the lines of it being something between the people whom it concerned and other stuff like that.

@maple syrup
I agree with you that seeing as it is a religious matter, church marriages should be decided by said church.
and about the god bless america bit. I have a problem with it because it gives such an egocentric tone. As if America wasn't blesed enough being one of the richest countries on earth. And besides that, it only serves to permeate the idea that the US is a christian nation, and not a secular one, as well as that there being religious is a pre requisite of serving in the government. Which reminds me of these qoutes from several US senators saying anyone that doesn't believe in god has no place in the US government.

________________
Do but despise reason and science,
The highest of all human gifts -
Then you have surrendered to the Devil
And must surely perish. - J.W. von Goethe

That just baffles me I would admit defeat around such a person.

Besides, how could a gay person even exist if god didn't want them to? Replace 'gay' with whichever word you like. Cookies to those of you that understand

________________

I am friends with a lot of christians/catholics that support gay marriage. I dont think that its just cuz theyre christian.



I kind of disagree with this. We are going bankrupt (I think). All our money will belong to china. Im not trying to say everyone should go around saying the U.S. is the best country in the whole world (even though I live here I totally disagree with that). I dont understand quite why people hate us so much. Other then the iraq war and the afghan war and all those other wars and maybe the fact that we get involved in so many things we should stay out of and- you know I think I'll shut up now

Well, in all honesty I don't feel like the phrase "God bless America" holds much meaning anyway. . . My guess is that many atheists within the government uses it aswell? If that's the case it's just a set phrase with no meaning anyway. . .

as for being one of the richest countries on earth. . . does it matter? They need the blessing anyway seeing as though they can't divide the welfare among their citizens. . .

Mewnbrite: yeah, you have a good point^^

but that's why they have the devil as a scapegoat right?

edit:

Exzuru:

ehm. . . yeah, that's basically it

Many are tired with The US diplomacy. . . or lack of it when Bush was in charge. . . basically The US often undermines The UN and tries to take the role of a global police force. . . I mean just leave these things to The UN, The US has got most of the seats there anyway aswell so don't see what the problem is

And then there's the fact with religious fanatism that some have a problem with, including me. Other than that I like Americans alot, they're funny, open-hearted, simply easy to hang out with ^^

Last edited by MapleSyrup at 4:36 am, Sep 18 2009

I'm kinda in between in this subject XD ( the religion one, that is) I'm fine with Atheism, have some friends that are such. I don't force my own religion, as I don't always agree with it. I just respect the person for who the person is, not what religion they follow. Currently I'm trying to do my confirmation (catholic sacrament, as I'm catholic XD). I feel sort of a hypocrite, since I don't always agree with the church, plus I didn't really want to do it T.T My mom is forcing me in a way. She paid for it, took me there, and I had no choice. T.T I enjoy studying of religions or the lack of them. Sometimes I think of what if my religion isn't true, and that there's none that are true... The question always bugs, but I'll never know the answer XD or maybe I will ( all depends on what one believes XD ) Just like I wore hijab before ( Muslim covering-- not just the head one, also clothing the whole body)-- some very close friends are Muslim. The religion question will always bug, but I just live with it, certain days I think more and more about it, but for the most part, I respect religions or lack of them. If there's a religion that kills people for fun-- I don't know if that would apply XD since i find the cruel.

*so long T.T*
*fingers hurt now T.T*

________________
Even though I walk through the darkest valley, I will fear no evil, for You are with me.

Theres a lot of different people on this Earth, you never know. Wouldn't that be a cult?

________________

Depends XD Not sure XD I don' t know if there's a religion out there that kills people for fun or such ( cults , yea... i'm sure there's some that'd do that) XD So I left it as religion XD Yup, we have a lot of variety of people in this Earth~ Kinda cool~ People are unique ( yet alike XD) ^^


________________
Even though I walk through the darkest valley, I will fear no evil, for You are with me.

You want to understand?

then begin to read history books... oh right, all the history books make the US to be a victim that stand above the rest... the Heroes of the world... fuck that, your governments (not the people, you are helpless idiots that are too drunk or too fat to know anything) have messed up with the world and have little respect to other countries... so yeah, my country doesn't have Nukes or a strong military, but we are all equal and should be treated with respect, your country is always acting like the saviors of the world, when no one asked them to do that, your country destroys other countries in the name of progress (Panama), you always want to have the best deals, and if the leader of a country disagrees then his plane would suddenly crash (Omar Torrijos, Jaime Roldós), and lets not forget the real reasons you entered World War 1, 2 and Vietnam, but FUCK given the position you are in, most countries would do the same or worse, so don't feel bad about the world hating US, because even if you deserve it, in exchange your country has had better growing conditions that any other in the face of the earth.

PS: Your money won't belong to China, your debts will, your money is naturally being transferred to the wealthy, because that is the system you promote, IE capitalism without limits.

But, enough of that...

Last edited by Chaoswind at 2:22 am, Sep 18 2009

________________

wow chaoswind could you insult people who live in america anymore? with what you just said, you called EVERY citizen living in america fat or helpless idiots that are to drunk to know anything. gotta say pretty sad chaos. and where are you from exactly? people are mad at america because they climbed to the top. we joined world war 2 because i don't know Hitler was going to rape the world? should we have waited until he took over everything else then came to us and we would be alone? seems pretty stupid. last i checked. the president decided to go to war. see he can do that even if the people don't want it. can you show em to these history books where america is protrayed as "heroes"? i would like to see them if you could provide them. you really need to check yourself and be less spiteful.

another thing. everyone is not equal. you can cry about it all you want. but the truth of the matter is, we are not born equal. america is not the best nation nor is there one because its subjective.

also america is not a Christian nation. its populated by a lot of Christians but its not a Christian nation. the founding fathers wanted religion to have nothing to do with the government. some of the founding fathers even hated religion. Benjamin franklin, said that lighthouses have more uses than churches. john adams said it would be the best of all possible worlds if religion wasn't in it. Thomas Jefferson thought it was the most perverted system ever shone by man.

Easy there Chaos, easy.
you have a point, though you word it a bit extreme. It's not like every citizen in the US is a raging, bible humping fucktard.
What really annoys me as well is that there are so many Americans that claim the US is the greatest country on the planet, yet fail to realise they have by far the worst healthcare system in the western world, falling even below some second world nations. The illitiracy rate is also the highest of all western nations.
And of course a big problem is how they claim to be a secular state, yet the government is so drenched in christianity, to the point where it is almost no more secular than Iran or Israel.

But this discussion isn't about the faults with the US government or it's society, it's about Atheism.

Which brings me to this point, I also hate how Atheism is portrayed in popular culture and the media, primarily in the US.
I have seen several shows with an atheistic character. Most of the times these characters didn't choose for atheism in a rational way, like most, but there was something tragic in their past wich made them lose faith in god. Then at some point something good happens, doesn't need to be anything spiritually or anything, and they immediately regain their belief of a god.
The only exception I have found is that main woman in Bones.
And about the portrayal of atheism in the american media, just type in atheism fox news and you should get a pretty good idea.

And I would like to react to grimslice for his bible quote.
For any theory a scientist can come up with about the nature of the universe or planets, can find a verse in the bible that supports it.
For einsteins idea of the expanding universe you have Job 9:8 where god "expands the heavens" or Isaiah 40:20. "Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in."
But if it was discovered the we live in a closed universe you have Job 9:7 "Who commands the sun not to shine, And sets a seal upon the stars".
But I soon found out when looking for this quote in English that there are several versions of the same qoute, yet slightly rewritten still meaning the same thing but doesn't fit that astronomical idea.

Last edited by The Guy at 10:30 am, Sep 18 2009

________________
Do but despise reason and science,
The highest of all human gifts -
Then you have surrendered to the Devil
And must surely perish. - J.W. von Goethe