Is Ichigo getting weaker?

This is why I am asking this -
when you achieve bankai you are supposed to get 5-10 times stronger than your shikai (or is it shinkai i forget) state. Ichigo defeated Kenpachi while he was in his shikai state but it took everything he had do break even with Byakuya in his bankai state (aren't Kenpachi and Byakuya supposed to be close in power).
and when you become able to control the hollow inside you, you are supposed to get a lot more stronger again right? but when Ichigo fought Grimm Jow it took everything he had to defeat him but then Kenpachi comes and kills the no. 5 espada who is supposed to be stronger than Grimm Jow who is a no. 6 espada. doesn't this make you wonder if Ichigo is really getting stronger or is he at the same strength and just simply learning new transformations without any real increase in his strength?

If there is another thread like this please feel free to delete this one (i didn't find one)

It might be that Kenpachi got stronger, but yeah, it's annoying to see Ichigo lose, he's got freakin hollow powers, why isnt he learning Cero etc.

I'm wondering about this too. The most probable answer is that Kenpachi along with all of the Captains have gotten stronger. This is the reason that they are able to keep up with Espadas now.

Plus Kenpachi and Ichigo's first fight wasn't really about skill but more of a fight between their spirit power, and it seems that ichigo has an awful lot of that, skill wise, he would have been pawned by Kenpachi. Whilst in his fight against Byakuya, they both fought using their utmost skill and it wasn't just about spirit power.

I think Kenpachi still had a hard time against Noitora, it's just that his attitude isn't one to show any weakness when his been damaged. I don't think Noitora is stronger than Ichigo, he was just really exhausted because of the fight with Grimmjow. Grimmjow might even be a little stronger than Noitora, If he was able to fight him with his full strength.

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"I just passed the Nursing Board Exams!!!!! Thanks be to God!!!!"

Well, Kenpachi is just an animal. It just so happens that he fought against someone who is like him, who uses brute strength to overtake his opponent. Unfortunatly, its almost impossible to overpower that guy, which is why he won.

Ichigo got his ass whooped cause he was tired from the first fight. But if he was at full strength he could've taken him.

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"“That's the difference between me and the rest of the world!
Happiness isn't good enough for me! I demand euphoria!” "

I thought about the captains getting stronger now but isn't that just a little weird that all the captains are suddenly getting stronger NOW. I mean they were all always training themselves to be in their best right, why are they suddenly now getting this strong now, its not like they found a new way to get strong right its the same old get a closer relationship with your zanpaktu right.

Well I am thinking instead of them getting stronger Ichigo got weaker because his relationship with zangetsu hasn't gotten anywhere after the bankai training, and hell right now he doesn't even know what happened to zangetsu now that he disappeared, remember when he fought the hollow Ichigo he kept asking him where zangetsu is and neither of them knew what happened to him.

for me ichigo is not getting weak.let me explain the reason:

1-when you say that ichigo beat Kenpachi without bankai it didn't happen because he was stronger because kenpachi wasn't fighting at full power because he only enjoy difficult fights so he didn't used his sword with two hand for example and when he was fighting Byakuya he need to use his bankai because his enemy was fighting seriously.

2-the fact that kenpachi could win against the 5th espada show how much he was honding his powers against ichigo.

3-ichigo couldn't win easily against Grimmjow because he was aready tired because of his fight with the fallen espada and because he didn't completily master the hollow transformation so when he use it he lose a lot off reiatsu(i tink that tis is the wai to write this) so he becomes weaker.

4-remenber what 4th espada said about ichigo reiatsu that it isn't stable but the stongest fluctuation is more powerfull than him the 4th espada

5-ichigo only know learned the hollow transformation for about 1 month so how can you expect him to know the powers of a hollow fully so that he could use cero and other hollow powers freely.

that was my view about how powerful ichigo is and just to close the case did you thought that he is a shinigami for about a year and that he is already as strong as a captain that trained his powers for more than 100 years.so for me ichigo is a monster because he become so powerfull on a short amount of time.

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cogito ergo sun (Decartes)

honestly i think grimmjow > the stupid 5th espada

The only thing i'm really wondering about is how a captain can match up with an Espada if he didn't actually get stronger.

I know that Kenpachi held back when he fought Ichigo but he was still weaker than the Espadas then. If what the manga says is true that adjuchas have powers comparable to captains and vasto lordes are even stronger than captains. With their added strength because they were turned to half hollow, half shinigami's, mathematically Espadas should be stronger than Captain level shinigamis. So the only logical reason that they are able to keep up with Espada is because they have trained and have become stronger. If they didn't need to get stronger, and are actually on equal footing with Espadas without training, then that would defeat the whole process of becoming a vizard or espada.

Haha, back to the topic, so basically Ichigo hasn't gotten weaker, but everyone else is just getting stronger as well.

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"I just passed the Nursing Board Exams!!!!! Thanks be to God!!!!"

its obvious that kenpachi is stronger then ichigo in the manga and anime he didnt even use 2 hands on his zanpaktou so that shows that he didnt fight ichigo at his strongest or he didnt learn kendo when he fought ichigo...and im sure if ichigo didnt fight Grimm and fought number 5 guy he can probalby beat him

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i was nervous at first it was big & long & went straight up i had to try it i eased onto it & liked it! i went up & down on it.... i love escalators now!


(great onizuka ftw)

Agreed. I just think the 5th guy had more strength.


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"“That's the difference between me and the rest of the world!
Happiness isn't good enough for me! I demand euphoria!” "

I agree with you there, but you have to realize that a shinigami's real power depends on not only the amount of reiatsu but also on how good their relationship is with their zanpaktu.
So i both these casess Ichigo fails, because he doesn't have enough experience on how to control his humongous amount of reiatsu and there hasn't been enough time for him to develop a good relationship with Zangetsu, and because of the hollow getting in the way he hasn't gotten any good on both points.

The most probable answer is that Kubo doesn't know what the hell he's doing. I'll admit that I'm somewhat addicted to this show, but seriously, if you look at it objectively, it looks like some 5th grader who watches too much DBZ wrote it.

Just look at this mess:

Renji > Uryu

Uryu > Mayuri

Szayel Aporro Granz > Renji and Uryu

Mayuri > Szayel Aporro Granz

Ladies and gentlemen of the supposed jury, this does not make sense! None of this makes any sense!



Now, look at the monkey. Look at the silly little monkey.


Last edited by eatpork at 1:00 pm, Jul 8 2008

Uryuu could never achieve the same power as the one he got when he released the quincy glove, so he was never stronger than mayuri in some way

im sure if the mangaka did not know what he was doing then this manga would have ended a long time ago...

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i was nervous at first it was big & long & went straight up i had to try it i eased onto it & liked it! i went up & down on it.... i love escalators now!


(great onizuka ftw)

*cough Naruto cough*