didn't mean to piss anyone off or anything, but you said you'll kill kill the rapist if he raped ur mom or sister... so, what if he raped someone else? will you still kill him?
you'll kill for ur mom/sis because you were taught that you should treat them with respect and protect them. While on the other hand, if the rapist grew up being told raping is "fine", then they'll do it probably without a slight thought of hesitation because their way of thinking is different.

People calm down.....stay on the subject....I think the heat is getting to all of you......

________________
Gay book discussion thread

Me saying if someone raped my mother or sister was just as an example(i did say "in the case my sister or mother perhaps"- you obviously didn't catch that. Personally i detest rape so in the terms of whether they should be killed or have their penis chopped off as alternative i think it should apply to any rapist. so in response to your question of killin the rapist who rapes other people. i will answer it with the question "why not?".

If they think it is "fine" to rape that is all good and dandy for them. when they are punished as a result of their actions it won't matter now will it? Everyone is entitled to their own morals but when your morals and views harms/affects others then frankly it is crap. frankly noone would consider "rape" a good act. yes good and evil are just words that depend on the persons POV. Considering good is refered to not harming and evil is refered to as it's opposite it is safe to say that anyone with a demented POV that agrees with rape has some sort of mental instability.

the easiest way to settle this is just looking at the facts. a rapist doesn't want to be raped. a murderer doesn't want to be killed. so while you try and say it is "fine" to them the fact is the action isn't fine enough for them to agree to it happening to them...gosh what an odd sentence....Thus along the lines of it being "FIne"- frankly that is BS if they can't deal with it themselves.

ur more than welcome to give an example of a rapist being raped and enjoying it

Just for the record- "rape" is NON-CONSENSUAL.


________________
HUBBY of DUBBY

I completely agree. What is "good" and what is "evil" are purely opinion-based when their definitions are concerned. Hitler's opinion of what "good" is would obviously be very different to your average person's. Plus, "moral" punishments change with the society in which they are involved. In ancient Rome, you could be killed for your religion (admittedly this was mostly because members of said religion were causing chaos, but still; modern societies probably wouldn't've skipped to death to stop the violence). Such a punishment is unimaginable in most developed nations of the modern world. While the "crime" itself hasn't changed since the ancient times, the ways to deal with it have.

And I do find it rather infuriating that all murderers are pretty much treated the same. People need to realise that all murderers aren't necessarily sane, reasoning people who've become "evil monsters." Sometimes they just are a bit messed up in the head, and this can be fixed with sessions with a psychiatrist to find out why he/she feels the need to murder or hurt people. It seems ridiculous to me to just shut people who might just be suffering from a mental condition into small cells to be the dirty secrets of the county/province/district/state/country.

/rant

well, first of all, i never said rape and murder is a good or bad thing, i;m just saying that theres a reason behind everything a human does, and rapist/murderer kill/rape is most likely due to psychological issues. Most likely from being the victim of, or witnessing a traumatic events. You said you detest rape, and you think that rapist should be killed or have their penis chopped off, and from your "example with your mom/sis", are you implying that because the rapist raped someone's whoever gives that person the right to kill or chop off his penis? Is that any different from any so called evil person?

and your question of "why not"..... chances are you won't be able to do it (if you're "normal", based on today's society standard) your mind will tell you that it is not right to do that because the society and your moral value said so. However once that mechanism in the brain gets f**k*d up due to whatever reason.... well you know what will happen and they'll become something we called "criminal"

if you think that it is not fair to the victim, well face it, this world isn't fair. Some people are borned in a F**K*D up family, and have to live a F**K*D life, while others can live in luxury without having to work for it.

well, everything i said is just MY opinion on this matter, lets just end this topic, we're getting way off topic from the original topic..... this is one of those open ended topic that we can argue about for eternity and still not have a conclusion......

You know....freedom of speech guarantees freedom of speech. But it also says: "Keep those opinions to yourself". Besides, I hardly see any connection between the existence of God and Morality issues.

________________
Gay book discussion thread

To help get things back on topic- Yes I believe in God. I believe in a loving God, and although the world we live in is severely messed up, it is also incredibly beautiful and wonderful. It is possible to blame 'religion' for a lot of misery in the world, but I think anyone who thoughtfully seeks out good and truth- not simply accepting what someone else's version is, or someone else's version of how to find it the more you can come to see the beauty in all of God's creation, and come to know Him. someone once said Love your God with your whole heart, mind and soul- AND love your neighbor as yourself. Sure this is oversimplified, and impossible to achieve, but if you can accept that you ARE going to fail sometimes, and that God still loves you no matter what, it makes it possible to get up and keep trying. The hardest thing is not making yourself 'god' - kind of like Adam & Eve - the lesson in that story...don't eat forbidden fruit? don't trust talking snakes? women? - no.... simply put- don't try to make yourself god -

Well, I guess you can use the lack of certain moralities in the Bible as a case against a benevolent God... But still, that's a bit of a stretch. Other than that vague connection, I can't really see how morality in general would connect to the existence of God.

@Cyphir
killing or chopping of genitals was an opinion by me. i never said it was the right thing to do or someone's right to do it. it'd be nice if u fully read my statements. The "why not" is also referring to my opinions but i will get back on topic since this convo is pointless.


as for morals not having much of a conection to "God" or w/e u feel like worshipping. i think that is a bit off. frankly even if one isn't raised religiously they will see religious views and the like incorporated into their life. just think about it. the dollar bill says "In God we trust". just about ever country has standards based off of religous aspects. whether u like it or not God is everywhere.

if one does look for teachings of right and wrong that is usually where they get it from. and also i wanted to point this out. just because the bible has incidents that happen in it that go against its teachings doesn't mean that it supports it. the fact is that it is a collection of stories and books.

________________
HUBBY of DUBBY

If you really really can't control yourself from discussing morality, than here is a separate section:
http://www.mangaupdates.com/showtopic.php?tid=973


And no one listens.......

________________
Gay book discussion thread

Actually, the US was not built on any particular religion. Its founders were deists (people who believe that a higher being exists and created the universe, but this being does not want to be worshipped and holds no care for humans), and they did their best to keep religion out of government. The only reason that "under God" is in the Pledge and "in God we trust" is on our money is because of the Communist scares in the '50s. Since the USSR/communists were known for being atheistic, the US decided to try to distance itself from such ideals by incorporating the phrases into the Pledge and onto the money. (Note: I'm 100% sure that I'm correct about the "Under God" bit being inserted in the Pledge in the 1950s, but I've only read one book mentioning that "in God we trust" was put onto money at the same time. I'm pretty sure it's true, but I just want to make sure that people know that I'm not 100% sure.)

>< I really tried to rein myself in to stop myself from posting anything about this, but it's just one of those topics that is a pet peeve of mine. The US is not a "Christian nation"; it never was. (Sure, the majourity of the population is, but the phrase "Christian nation" gives the idea of the government upholding Christian values/the religion in general, which is not true for the US.) And I know I'm blowing this comment out of proportion. ^^; It was more of a "for your information" post than anything.

But I agree that it's impossible to get religion out of politics. If you have a religion that outlines certain actions as being ethical, then obviously this will influence your opinion on governmental matters. While it's not the basis of many governments like it was in the past (after the Iranian Religious Revivalism in the 1970s, for example (Sorry for the random dates; my AP World exam's tomorrow, and my mind's just swirling with random historical facts right now)), it definitely still influences the inner political workings of the institutions.

>< I REALLY need to learn how to stay on-topic.

Thanks for the heads-up xObscurexOmenx, I really never would have guessed

________________

Well I think both of you guys bring up a good point in terms of defining morality and what is right and wrong. Who decides what is right and what is wrong. Clearly as we can see in history and in everyday life what i think is right and wrong may not necessarily be what you believe is right and wrong. Is there a way for both of us to be right? Although it may be a possibility i doubt that it is very likely when it comes to moral judgment. The best standard for what morality is in Jesus Christ and God himself. I think there is only one way to be perfect in morality and judgement and quite frankly no one on earth fits that bill. There isn't a single person on earth that has created a standard of rules and regulations that everyone can agree on. It is almost impossible. Luckily for us God's ways are so much better than ours he sees in situations with much better clarity than anyone else. Did you think the ten commandments were just a random set of rules. There is a distinct purposeful order to how the 10 commandments were listed. The first 4 commandments have us keeping God as God and us loving him as such. We don't have the right nor is it very good for us if we claim to be God. If we did make that claim just imagine the disorder and chaos. The 5th commandment to honor your mom and dad is because if the parents are following these commandments the children would inherit these standards into their own life. And the last 5 are about loving our neighbors as ourselves. With the last commandment coming full circle and not coveting which relates back to not wishing to be God.

I do believe in A god-like diety
and It has a wicked sense of humor

It passes it's immortal time laughing at us and our hardships

ie. the saying .....

If anything can go wrong, it will, at the worst possible moment

________________
If you're old enough....

Support single moms

I think this God of wicked sense of humour is about to give you some weird illness that turns you into a piece of wood......

________________
Gay book discussion thread