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Difference between shounen and seinan

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Post #659470
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2:48 am, Jan 8 2015
Posts: 2


So cause of a specific series its made me question the tag/genre of a shounen and seinan series. does having a shounen tag mean that the series itself is targeted for the "young male" audience (<18) or does it mean it deals with characters of the young male category and people of community misinterpreted the shounen tag because of the substantial ratio of young male who read this genre?



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3:31 am, Jan 8 2015
Posts: 53


Shounen/seinen refer to whether the series is published in a shounen or seinen magazine, which are targeted at young males and young adult males, respectively. They have nothing at all to do with the content of a manga, since they have to do with demographics rather than genre. So your first guess was mostly correct.

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Kigurumi
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3:39 am, Jan 8 2015
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Demographics like Shounen and Seinen are determined by the type of magazine they run in. If a series runs in a Shounen magazine, e.g. Shueisha's Shuukan Shounen Jump, it's considered Shounen. If it runs in a Seinen magazine, e.g. Kodansha's Afternoon, it's Seinen. And if it is (or used to be) published in both Shounen and Seinen magazines like Blood Alone, it's classified as both.

Some people would rather tag series according to their audience or certain characteristics, but since that's difficult and way too subjective to manage, we stick with the magazine's definition.

EDIT: wafflestatus beat me to it.

Last edited by Tripitaka at 7:07 am, Jan 8 2015

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Post #659473
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4:15 am, Jan 8 2015
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so hypothetically if a hentai manga gets serialised in shounen jump itd be considered a shounen manga? weird.

thanks for the answer

Post #659477 - Reply to (#659473) by Seoyoon
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5:38 am, Jan 8 2015
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Quote from Seoyoon
so hypothetically if a hentai manga gets serialised in shounen jump itd be considered a shounen manga? weird.

thanks for the answer

Hentai itself is a different genre targeted to mature audience or adult, and with all that sexual content I think there's no way it would be serialized in shounen jump together with ordinary manga targeted to young males.

There can be ecchi thing in shounen manga, and maybe a borderline hentai in seinen, but no way it would be a full hentai in both (if I'm not mistaken).

I think hentai manga got itself a different book for serialization? CMIIW~

Post #659481 - Reply to (#659473) by Seoyoon
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Kigurumi
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7:11 am, Jan 8 2015
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Hypothetically speaking, yes. That's why there are Yuri Seinen series. But since it's impossible for a Hentai to ever get published in a Shounen magazine for above-mentioned reasons, you won't find any Hentai Shounen.

Last edited by Tripitaka at 2:42 pm, Jan 8 2015

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"Stories are what death thinks he puts an end to.
He can't understand that they end in him, but they don't end with him."
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To be savoured:
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- Otoyomegatari by MORI Kaoru
- Gangsta. by Kohske
- Seishun Kouryakuhon by AKIZUKI Sorata
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Seinen is RIGHT
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3:07 pm, Jan 12 2015
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The word "Shounen" only connects to the magazine it was published in and Buddha thus targeted young boys and is rightly tagged but should it be?
Hunter x Hunter is in SJ but that is just insane as it is a deconstruction of the genre.
I can easily name (but won´t) Shounen manga that would make the sex and violence in Seinen publications or some hentai blush. Remember that K-ON! is Seinen too or that Orange (TAKANO Ichigo) is now also Seinen but Akumetsu is forever Shounen as Japan does not care so tag as you see the magazine! Berserk was also envisioned as a Shounen manga in the pilot to run against Fist of the North Star so these are concepts that only take themselves as seriously as the publication in question.
The difference between all 4 demographics can be an ocean or only a puddle.
Read enough and you will see. Kenrou Densetsu is a shounen manga too and would you call Jin-Roh: The Wolf Brigade a kidZ movie? I though so.
This is an adaptation of a Shounen manga: Could you have guessed? Banana Fish is Shoujo and the crap gorefest of a movie based on X is too. Who knows why...

Last edited by residentgrigo at 4:16 am, Nov 16 2015

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11:37 am, Jan 18 2015
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To Love-Ru is a classic example of a manga that run in the wrong magazine

why was it in JUMP
it is just borderline h from page 1 till the last volume
eaveryone is HYPE SEXUAL all the time and all gags involve nudity
and its not silly enough to laugh at its sExY

Post #661475 - Reply to (#660126) by TaoPaiPai
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2:19 am, Feb 12 2015
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Quote from TaoPaiPai
To Love-Ru is a classic example of a manga that run in the wrong magazine

why was it in JUMP
it is just borderline h from page 1 till the last volume
eaveryone is HYPE SEXUAL all the time and all gags involve nudity
and its not silly enough to laugh at its sExY

Most of the world isn't as uptight about sexuality and nudity as the USA is. Japan is more than accepting of the fact that young boys are interested in boobs.

Post #661661 - Reply to (#659772) by residentgrigo
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2:32 pm, Feb 15 2015
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The word "shonen" only connects to the magazine it was published in.

It's not. The word shounen describes the demographic to which the manga is targeted. The concept of that demographic changes with times. Shounen developed around the war, when ~15 y.o. boys were still treated as near adults, hence manga for them was much more adulterous in content compared to modernity and because of that many young adults were among the demographic just as well. It still revolved around things that boys loved - adventures, robots, sci-fi etc. So it always had a narrowcasted approach, through which it is clearly definable.
Now we have battle shounen, sports shounen, romance shounen etc. All of which can be treated as near entire genres, so much unique specifics and tropes each possesses.
As times went and seinen/seijin magazines appeared they took all the explicit sexual, serious and criminal themes into themselves, becoming basically the free card demographic, which eventually defined shounen into a more youth friendly, adventurous category with rules and limitations that we have now.

All your examples of an "inappropriate shounen" are from 20+ years ago, proving the point.

Quote
Hunter x Hunter is in SJ but that is just insane as it is a deconstruction of the genre.

Lol what? No it isn't. It is the same good ol' battle shounen, hitting every trope. It's just really, really well written.

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I can easily name(but won´t) shonen manga that would make the sex and violence in seinen publications or some hentai blush.

No doubt all from 20+ years ago.

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Remember kids K-ON! is seinen.

And? It's a slice of life comedy.

Quote
Orange (TAKANO Ichigo) is now seinen and Akumetsu is forever shonen cuz japan does not care.

Again, and? Just because somebody peppered Akumetsu with all those fancy tags (which are not present anywhere else) doesn't stop it from being a primarily action shounen.

Quote
Tag as you see the magazine ! Berserk was envisioned as a somewhat shonen manga in the pilot to run against Fist of the North Star so these are concepts that only take themselves as seriously as the publication in question.

Erm, citation please. Last I checked Hokuto ended in 88 and Berserk pilot premiered in 88. Also it had nothing even remotely shounen about it. It's just a regular Berserk Black Swordsman era chapter with Guts having a different personality.

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Post #661664 - Reply to (#661661) by Oppai Ippai
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3:11 pm, Feb 15 2015
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Deadman Wonderland isn't that youth friendly, but it's still a shounen.

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Seinen is RIGHT
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4:28 pm, Feb 17 2015
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You Wanna Get Nuts? Let's Get Nuts! (so i will never have to answer to this ever popular and can now link): Champion Red and friends are Shounen but escalated beyond reason in the last 10 years and get flack for it. I will only mention Aki Sora (totally not hentai) which had one chapter published as shounen to promote it more.
It´s "grandfather" Harenchi Gakuen was releases as shounen in the 60s and there was a outcry back then that killed it too so times have not changed but the enveloped is pushed even further into the mouths of madness as some modern shounen manga are more extreme then "real" hentai form the 80s. I have found shonen NTR and one´s with cumshot orgys while modern Borderline-H seinen has completely gone Guyver: Out of Control
(a shonen ova with tentacle sex) as some of it is more extreme then what one can (usually) find in a Vitamin issue which is a porno mag. Sachiare! on the other hand is technically a prono (and not the only one of it´s kind) but leave the tags alone until the content changes. So hentai makes no sense too! Heaps of properly tagged Borderline-H / Gore manga lead to shounen like Akuma to Ore. It got canceled because the publisher wasn´t into tentacle sex so have fun on the hunt for more. I have also read shoujo smut that is as explicit as hentai so the road goes both ways and Ai Shoujo is a laughing riot.

Does anyone remember Bill 156 where politicians "banned" kids manga in 2011.
The publishers are allowed to re-release them as porn but they fear that stigmata. Now let´s look at Psycho-Pass and loose all remaining sense of sanity. It includes naked teen corpse while the show has no nudity whatsoever. The manga versions are also more violent then the first season as on screen violence is in season 2 and the R-15 movie only. What was PP2 criticized for again? Oh right it was the street pizza! The show itself ran on Noitamina but is Josei the target audience? None of it´s adaptations are and it´s young adult novels even have bestially references and graphic sex. The show show itself was criticized for running on the wrong slot and "taking away" another shows chance that would have fit Noitamina better. Parts of season 1 even had to be edited down but the executives did not care 2 years later it seems. Logic where? Do any you think that a 20 year old bro would think that PP is for his girlfriend after watching a trailer? Women can like dark content as horror convection have like 40% female attendance but still.

More women then men read Bleach now and i why wouldn´t then? It is fujoshi fodder extraordinaire and SJ knows that as they may be lazy but not dumb.
The average One Piece reader has recently aged over the magic 18 and SJ has a bit of a problem thanks to that. A bro of mine confused Kenshin for Seinen last week and it was heavily criticizes for the amount of violence and darkness in the flashback arc alone by it´s audience in the 90s which only proves that it ran in the wrong magazine. Do any of the new movies scream middle school to you or does Trust and Betray? No uncensored version of HxH exist to this day and it´s shounen criticism is a major selling point.
The Chimera Ant arc in HxH brilliantly took the genre apart as Gon lost his humanity along the way while Meruem gained human features. No tween or manga newcomer will get that arcs (or Shin York) as you need to have a perspective on the genre in the very least. How many younglings do you know that are into North Korea criticism, the Zodiac-Killer or know the concept of nuclear proliferation? Even his Yu Yu Hakusho challenged the genre conventions later on but it was heavy handed i must admit. Why did it have baby rape again? Yes that did happen in a SJ manga.

Hi no Tori is all thing but a kidZ comic it is not and that isn´t only because it has gore, mother X sons incest and a rapist as one pf the "heros". I don´t dislike children media in the least as Star Wars Rebels for example is better the most modern anime and it even features cold blooded murder on the Disney channel. Dr. Slump is another lovely classic that i like more as an adult. It is child appropriate i don´t think they will "get" it as i didn´t 15 years ago. I further wuld never have guesses that Husk Eden is Josei and Gunslinger Girl is Shonen and i have been reading comics/manga since the 90s.
Terra Formars is Seinen but Baccano! - 1931 The Grand Punk Railroad is not.
Oooku and Banana Fish have gang rape but are for young girls even if it makes no sense. The magazine Manga Erotic f has no clear demographic it seems to makes matters even worse and so on. Don´t get me started on the logistics of the book market as none of my co-workers understand it either. The song remains the same elsewhere:
My Little Pony: Equestria Girls is which demographic? Legend of Korra had bad rating due to complicated factors but being on the wrong network did not help. Batman: Death Mask is ShoUnen but Batman: The Child of Dreams is Seinen. I have read over 1000 issues of Batman and i do not know why.
Scott Snyder (a horror writer)´s award winning ongoing Batman (or the New 52) is not appropriate/targeted at 13 years olds no matter what the cover says as faces are cut off, mass cannibalism was a thing last issue and a Human Centipede references had a prominent placement. The comic wasn´t even supposed to be labeled 13+ at first and both of the big two constantly get flack for miss labeling stuff. DC´s big event comic Identity Crisis had anal rape and Marvel´s big even comic Ultimatum had hardcore cannibalism. Both are PG 13 of course! Don´t even think that Disney will let Ironman struggle with alcoholism on the big screen like in the PG rated comic.
Arkham Origins was shockingly violent for a Teen rated game but Halo is rated M. By which logic are the SMT RPG's rated again? Some are M and some are Teen but none know the internal logic to this day. These fields are a washout too.

The first season of the Walking Dead was TV-14 but AMC was forces to change that after parents groups complained. My darling Hannibal has HBO levels of gore/darkness but is rated TV-14. Who knows why as it is for example 18+ in Germany and one american station even banned it. As you see demographic are and will be a joke in any form as they should.
Going for one age range/gender alone in the field of entertainment is utter suicide as any marketing executive will tell you. The Lord of the Rings has no demographic but only a genre and look at what my job us below before you start arguing.
I may bleed Seinen but that tag means nothing to me on it´s own. Tag the demographic by the most recent magazine to avoid lockdown as there is no clear internal logic and i have the admins on my side here. Finally i can add that Miura only created Shounen before he went pro and that the prototype has no clear demographic. Still the spirit of Bronson is can be felt and he worked with Miura on 3 (gradually worsening seinen) projects thereafter. The prototype could have run alongside then recent Shounen manga like Bastard!! roll eyes without problems but Vol.1 could have not. I would also love to know why his NOA is Shounen and i watched one episode of Better Call Saul and Walking Dead while writing.

Edit: This shitshow Mahou Shoujo Neko X went from Shounen to Hentai and more like it exists and Domina no Do! has Borderline H with (31,1). I rest my case and would like to remind everyone that you can do prison time in japan for showing uncensored adult sexscenes in any form but uncesored lolis, spread open asses, bestiality and tentacles dicks are A-OK eyes .

Last edited by residentgrigo at 4:17 am, Nov 16 2015

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1:16 pm, Feb 27 2015
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I can now prove that Berserk was supposed to be Shounen (at first).
I obviously can´t link but open up the first full Berserk Art/Guide Book or type in:
"[Kentaro Miura] Berserk Illustration Book (german)" into ghentai (what don´t they have?). Now look at page 130. From Japanese to Germany to English it read about like this:
There weren´t many heroic fantasy in comics magazine for teenagers besides Bastard!!
And later: A hero of a youth comic needs a hard name.
Even later: I chose these dry word because it it was supposed to be a comic for kids.
There you have it cool . The difference between shonen and seinen does NOT exist but continue to tag properly and holy shit did i surprise myself just now when i randomly closed my eyes and that very interview showed up. I ether have brain damage or Berserk is in my blood now. No seriously i just stood up to make myself something to drink after watching JoJo and BAM. Right down to the page. Can we now end this thread?

The new Batman game is Rated-M because of it´s story and this weeks issue was shocking violent too. They put him on baby clothes after all. BIG Spoilers:
http://ign.com/articles/2015/02/26/the-joker-just-cut-off-redacte ds-hand
PG-13 my ass America and think of the (CoD playing) kids! Demographic = Nonsense

Last edited by residentgrigo at 3:58 am, Nov 16 2015

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hungry
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12:39 am, Feb 28 2015
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To makes it simple...
The deterrence between them are of Maturity and Immaturity...

Shounen stuffs aren't not high on tension...for most of them, you don't need to have any understanding(sense) of reality to read them...though, exceptional cases like Death Note! Exists too...
While you'll needing a Strong Heart(so, you don't get heartaches quite often) and RL Understanding...

For example, you can compare the deaths between two complete Mangas of there respective genre...Take Naruto and Eden - It's An Endless World for example...you'll get a perfect view of my point !

Shounen is for everyone...but, Shinen isn't for everyone...

And there is this age requirement for perfect understanding too ~!^^


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Last edited by MinatoAce at 12:56 am, Feb 28 2015

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Post #662452 - Reply to (#662352) by MinatoAce
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Woodland Friendo
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8:16 pm, Mar 1 2015
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Yeah, I gotta agree with MinatoAce for the most part in terms of shounen being for a more general audience. Sure there are definitely some seinens out there that could be for just about "everyone" as well, but I guess they find a way to make an exception.
Another example to compare is I Am a Hero to Highschool of the Dead. One focuses its story-telling + artwork to create a combination of realism and (sometimes nightmarish) surrealism through characters' delusions and zombie abominations, while the other focuses its story-telling(?!?) + artwork to show off lotsa action and women's bodies. It's not exactly a very fair comparison to make, but hey, if you like the latter, to each his own.

From my past perspective, many shounens I've read tend to use a lot of specific clichés, such as using the "power of friendship" to win almost any battle/conflict. Some do this well to a degree (Darwin's Game focuses less on "friendship" itself and more along the lines of strategic teamwork + strength in numbers), while a lot of others hit you over the head with it way too many times (Fairy Tail... Nuff said).

Some seinens I wouldn't recommend to many people, and it's not because they may contain "inappropriate/immature" content in them; rather, I figure that some seinens tend to be appreciated by some older readers in terms of art style, story telling, character interactions, personalities, etc. etc. (Dorohedoro and The Voynich Hotel definitely come to mind).

This is all just my take on it from first thoughts that come to mind, so I don't need anyone to remind me that there are series that go against what I've said. I'm definitely aware that there are some that do that, so nothing I've said is an absolute standard I'm completely behind. I'm just throwing what I can out there to share.

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